Posted on 10/03/2005 8:19:09 AM PDT by dukeman
This one doesn't need too much introduction. We know the Far Left hates America and are embarrassed to be citizens- this is decades old, BTW, and not just a "Bush hate" thing- but how far will they go in making their "statements?" Just how self-centered are they? This is from DU:
Cyrano (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 01:19 PM
Original message
I thought I'd be attacked for not standing during the national anthem
Over the Labor Day weekend, I was invited to a private club to which some friends of mine belonged. I was stretched out on a lounge and it was around noontime when someone announced over the loudspeaker for everyone to stand for the national anthem.
I have no idea what triggered it, but I was suddenly pissed, outraged and rebellious. Was I at a ball game? A political convention? Back in the army? Why was someone telling me I had to stand for the national anthem at some damn swimming pool?
" ... land of the free. Home of the brave."? The bullshit of those lines in George Bush's America were echoing in my head and I made the decision to not stand. Everyone else stood and I guess I anticipated the looks of anger and hatred directed at me.
Soon afterwards, I told my friends I didn't want to make them any more uncomfortable than they already were, and that I was leaving.
I've spent a month thinking about this. Was I being true to my beliefs? Should I have stood so as not to be discourteous to my friends? At what point should any of us draw the line of what we're expected to do, and what we think is right? And I've concluded that I have no regrets.
TallahasseeGrannie (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. What was the purpose of playing the anthem?
I don't think we have to jump to our feet whenever we hear it! But if it is being played as an opening to an event, then you do it. But at a pool? Lounge chair? Probably some idiot wanted to check out the babes at attention.
tatertop (125 posts) Fri Sep-30-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I no longer stand for the national anthem
I don't even take my cap off
Spike from MN (700 posts) Fri Sep-30-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
47. I always thought it was stupid to make everyone
stand for the anthem. I thought it was stupid to make us stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance even when I was in grade school. Even then, I thought it was a mindless act that smacked of control. I guess the present-day word would be that it made me feel like a sheeple. I can think for myself, thank you very much and I don't feel like reciting the Pledge or standing for the national anthem. If others want to do it, of course, that's their perogative and I won't tell them they SHOULDN'T do it, in the same way I expect them to respect my freedom of choice and not tell me that I HAVE to do it.
annabanana (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. oh hell no... what are you.. a yo-yo? Some of these people stand up AT HOME all alone, before the football game..
Curiosity sake.. what was the response of those around you?
Cyrano (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. I have no doubt there were people who would have killed me if they thought they could have gotten away with it.
Never underestimate the stupidity of a (so-called) patriot.
Straight Shooter (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. When I was younger, I always stood for the Anthem. I remember people in school snickering at me because I stood for the Anthem at ball games. For me, it was a sign of respect, as the Anthem to me was symbolic of what America represents.
No way in hell would I ever stand for the Anthem now. All those people who once didn't bother to stand up, now they're standing up? **** them.
Good for you. Don't drink the Kool-Aid.
seemunkee (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. They asked people to stand for singing "America the Beautiful" at a Nationals baseball game
Mr_Jefferson_24 (364 posts) Fri Sep-30-05 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
11. Stand for "land of the free and ...
...home of the brave?" Not me, not anymore. This is not land of the free. The people of an imperialist nation are anything but free.
As for "home of the brave," you clearly demonstrated that we still have some brave citizens left. Sadly, there just don't seem to be enough.
Cyrano (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Thanks for the compliment, but it wasn't bravery. I was just pissed.
I couldn't have cared less what anyone thought. At that moment, all I knew was that I wasn't going to take any more pseudo-patriotism **** from anyone.
Mr_Jefferson_24 (364 posts) Fri Sep-30-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. You may have...
...been pissed, but you also knew you would be a minority of one making a statement that would evoke strong, emotional opposition.
Rather than cave to the fear of being a lone dissenter, you stood (or perhaps remained seated) for what you believed. That's bravery.
[Congrats! You may pick up your Purple Heart at moonbat headquarters]
Benhurst (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. I live in a very Red part of the country.
I was at a high school football game last weekend. When the Star Spangled Banner was played, I stood, but with my hands clasped behind my back.
I looked around and noticed that very few had their hands over their hearts. Most had their hands clasped behind or in front, dangling at their sides or in their pockets.
Is this just bad manners or were others expressing their disgust with what is going on?
I don't know.
Dr.Phool (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. For years, I didn't stand for the anthem at Browns games.
And I've been thinking lately about not standing for the pledge at our DEC meetings. Saying something to the efect of, "When you take god out of it, I'll stand for it." But, I have to work closely with a lot of these people.
tx_dem41 (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
16. At the very least I would have stood up. Try to remember the fact that the Anthem isn't in any way paying respect or showing reverance to the current (or any) Administration. Its paying respect to the people of the nation past and present, many of whom have sacrificed and are sacrificing (and I'm not just talking militarily) for your betterment.
[****ing freeper troll! How dare you question my patriotism! Have a nice stay! **** you!]
BullGooseLoony (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. I think I probably would have stood, meanwhile giving puzzled looks to everyone around me, and when it was over, immediately asked, "Why the **** did they just play the national anthem???"
geomon666 (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
23. I would've jumped in the pool...
and peed in it. Gobs Bless America!!
seabeyond (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
26. a good friend brought her new boyfriend to my house. a druid, conservative, military man. she is well aware what i think is happening in this world and my disgust for the sheep. we both had kids in a private christian school. i took mine out because i told her, they werent walking the path of christ. they were feeding hate. i talk often to her about politics
they stop by at my house and he is talking politics, in my house. she was well aware his politics and how it would hit me upside the head. i had been minding my own business. the more questions i ask to understand where he is coming from, the more i see, he is the truly dangerous white male, educated, military (so he says) limbaugh talking, flat out liar that sounds like he is actually saying something. he told me he personally knows bush and he is a good christian that deeply holds his faith. he is a blow hard
at one point i told all in the room, conversation making me sick. this was sick. this is what makes me so sad for this nation
this good friend hasnt talked to me for three weeks. she called daily in the past.
i ask, is it worth losing a friendship over. you know what? i wont have that man in my world. i wont honor the game he plays. and while she is with this man, and embacing his lies, she can stay in her space too. i wont be quiet and i wont pretend
seabeyond (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. women today should feel lucky today compared to 3 decades ago. that was in the middle of the talk, when i was getting where he was coming from
told him, my father in law once said, i should feel lucky living in this country compared to others.
bull****. **** that crap. like that maeks the injustices today ok. not going to keep mouth shut cause we are better off than women getting vaginal mutilation. this is something stupid **** white males say to put women in their place
[Okay. Raise your hand if you think the national anthem has anything to do with vaginal mutilation.]
yes
he is one of those men. the type she has cried to me about for years, that she always seems to hook up with.
sure she will always be friend. this is her lesson. she gets to do all by herself, wink. i dont want to play this one
Mr_Jefferson_24 (364 posts) Fri Sep-30-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. It is those who...
...continue to rise for the Anthem, with full knowledge of the imperialist, fascist nation our country has become, that I worry have given up hope and let go of the American dream, not the ones who dare to make a bold statement.
Silverhair (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
30. I always stand.
The national symbols stand, not for America as it is, but for the ideal, the dream, that we strive to make America into, and that we believe that it can become. And I stand in respect for those who, in generations past, have sacrificed to hand that dream down to me.
To refuse to stand, because you hate W, is to identify America with any one politician. And to those around you, it says that you hate America. Since you are probably known as a progressive to them, then they will question your patriotism, and by association, that of other progressive.
I stand, and am proud to do so.
Mr_Jefferson_24 (364 posts) Fri Sep-30-05 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. To refuse to stand is...
...merely a statement of strong condemnation for what this country has become, not a statement about hate. Your rhetoric smacks of the well known, often trumpeted question, "Why do they hate America?"
Silverhair (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Reread my second paragraph, please. I made a statement of fact.
I did NOT say refusing to stand was a statement of hate.
I DID say, "And to those around you, it says that you hate America." That is a statement predicting how an action will be interpreted by most people. I believe I am correct in that prediction.
If you hold your fist in the air with the middle finger raised, to you it may mean whatever you choose it to mean, but to the rest of the people it will be an insulting provocative gesture. Same with not standing. To you it can mean whatever you want it to mean, but to the people around you, it will be a display of disrespect for the symbols of America and will be interpreted as such.
And then we wonder why our patriotism is so often, and so effectively attacked.
[Every once in a while, an adult actually shows up on DU]
Mr_Jefferson_24 (364 posts) Fri Sep-30-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Now it sounds more...
...like you rise for the Anthem for the fear of what others might think, or how they might react if you don't. This is the opposite of bravery.
Silverhair (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. No. I rise for respect, and would if I were alone. That I am also aware of how my actions are received by others around me does not conflict with standing.
The person who choses to sit, must be aware of the way it WILL be viewed by those around. What was his objective? Sounds like he wanted to make those around him angry. He probably succeeded in that. And they were made unreceptive to any politics that he may want to tell them.
Was his objective to start a fight, or to convert?
Mr_Jefferson_24 (364 posts) Fri Sep-30-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Symbolism, be it in the...
...form of anthems, pledges, flags, or whatever, once high-jacked by an illegitimate, criminal, central power structure, as America's most treasured symbols have now been, are in my opinion, no longer worthy of tribute. I say this because I don't believe it's possible to pay tribute to these symbols without, at least tacitly, lending support to (however unintended), and thereby legitimizing, that same criminal power structure that high-jacked them---one we know to be illegitimate.
Marriage vows are symbolic of a man and a woman's love and commitment to one another. If at some point in a marriage the love and commitment that was once shared is no more, the marriage is usually dissolved ending in divorce---the symbolic nature of the vows no longer has meaning. Our current administration, as you well know, has over the last four and a half years, all but shredded our Constitution, the document on which this country was founded. This document can, I think, be likened to the love and commitment shared between a married couple---once it's no longer in force, all the important national symbols which derive their meaning from it, are suddenly rendered meaningless. To me, continuing to pay tribute to these symbols with our Constitution in such tatters is like staying in a marriage long after the love and commitment that was once there is gone. It can serve no good purpose.
I think the more patriotic course is to openly refuse to pay tribute to these symbols until our nation is once again a nation governed by, for, and of the people, as our Constitution stipulates it must be. For Americans all across the country to do this often enough, in sufficiently large numbers, would send a message that simply could not be ignored---not by Bushco, not by MSM, not by neocons, and not by the rest of the world. In these trying times, my fellow patriot, it is, I believe, the right thing to do.
leesa (1000+ posts) Sat Oct-01-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #30
63. It's just a song. "to those around you it says you hate America"??
What kind of BS is that? Then I would say that those around him have a big problem.
Feeding this fantasy about America's morality and uprightness is how we got into this mess.
Bethany Rockafella (592 posts) Fri Sep-30-05 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
40. Did you have your speedos on?
muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
51. Maybe it should have been a Casablanca moment? Start singing the Marseillaise over the top of it? Or at least after it? (It would go well with you screen name and avatar, too).
Cyrano (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-30-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Hi, muriel, I love the idea.
I've been gone for a few hours and Mr. Jefferson has been kind enough to defend my position on this issue.
I'm saddened to see some responses from DUers that, when all the rhetoric is pulled aside, can be translated to mean, "My country right or wrong." There's nothing that you, Mr. Jefferson, or I can do to change their opinions.
Someone suggested that I was trying to make some kind of "statement." If I was, it was a statement of rebellion. In a way, whoever said it was right. I won't be told when to stand to demonstrate my "patriotism" to others. I don't need a spangled piece of cloth to tell me what my values are. And I sure as hell don't need anyone telling me to respect the values of lemmings who will march off a cliff for some obscure purpose that they define as "Americanism."
I know many of these people mean well. But blind loyalty to what this country should/could/might be, is still blind loyalty. Given what is going on under the thugs who have stolen our country, why aren't these "true patriots" rising up in rebellion against what's been done to our freedoms, our rights, our constitution and our national honor?
Oooops, I just caught myself in full rant mode. I guess it's time to shut up. But thanks for reminding me of that great scene in "Casablanca" where one guy has the balls to stand up for what's right.
On edit: Someone asked why the club I was at decided to play the national anthem over the PA system on Labor Day. I don't have the slightest idea, however, there's no shortage of assholes in the world.
[Yes, but they seem to congregate in certain places over others]
Splatter Phoenix (486 posts) Fri Sep-30-05 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
55. Only in a fascist nation do they force obedient patriotism.
It takes bravery to exercise that freedom. Every day in class when we're to stand for the anthem and pledge both, and I remain sitting, I can feel my heart pounding in my ears and I can feel the stares of the other people staring. I've done it three times in a row and it hasn't gotten any easier.
Of course, to those patriots who believe I don't show enough love for my country, I respond in this way:
"Hagel zum Führer".
[Little ingrate ****!]
mbee (837 posts) Sat Oct-01-05 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
57. Our country has been make a mockery by the criminals at the WH and I don't blame you for not standing. We cannot survive on symbols while we no longer even have free elections.
FM Arouet666 (1000+ posts) Sat Oct-01-05 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
58. No regret is my vote. Burn the flag, piss on the flag,....
Sit for the anthem. Screw what anybody thinks. You will undoubtedly be greeted with angry responses to these actions. Brave soldiers died for that flag, you must respect America and stand for the national anthem, etc. Bullshit, no one died for a flag or song, they died so that Americans could have freedom of expression, freedom of religion, freedom to sit down for the anthem. And freedom to realize that where soldiers died in past wars protecting America from fascists, soldiers are dying today for control of the middle east, for power, for oil, for an administration which seeks to destroy our freedoms.
What a screwed up world.............
Cyrano (1000+ posts) Sat Oct-01-05 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
65. Just tuned back in. I had no idea my experience would raise controversy.
Many of you asked why this club played the national anthem over the PA system on Labor Day. All I can say is????? I don't have a clue. Maybe Rush Limbaugh is part owner and likes to watch lemmings do what lemmings do.
What's been most surprising to me is the number of DUers who pay homage to the stolen symbols of our country. A symbol is one thing, reality is another. And we are currently living under a fascist regime that is still working toward completing their agenda: Total power over us (and the rest of the world).
I pity those who don't see this. And I despise those who do see it and go along with it. There is much in the history of our country to be proud of, and just as much to be ashamed of. Assuming we survive this era, any decent human being would want to be able to say, "I fought our home-grown facism as best as I could."
Perhaps that sounds a bit dramatic, but ten, twenty, thirty years from now, it will, (hopefully), be a badge of pride.
To those who still honor the symbols of our country, I look forward to rejoining you. And hopefully, that day is not too far off.
"I was invited to a private club"
The idiot isn't smart enough to uninvite himself?
LOL, I know a very liberal woman whose nickname is Anna Banana. I wonder if that is her, or perhaps her husband.
Thought you'd like to see this DU thread, if you haven't seen it already.
I suspect that DUmmie Cyrano is lying to begin with. Most people have no interest in being around people who live in a perpetual state of rage. I further suspect that Cyrano is very lonely and makes up stories like this to garner attention from other DUmmies.
Manners - too much to ask of liberals.
Thanks for the post.
The DUMMIES lack of respect for our National Anthem and our FRee Republic is not surprizing. That sort of anti-patriotic bahavior has been encourged, publicized and rewarded by the MSM and in other "progressive" circles since the Vietnam protest era.
Forty years and counting of MSM anti-American vitriol aided and abetted by the LIEberal/Socialist/Marxist Bastard academics and their "progressive" camp followers has got to have an effect.
The "dialogue" probably will get very ugly before we are done with this debate, if my (and the DC Chapters's)experience the past few years with the ANSWER crowd (and other like minded "progressive" groups) is any indicator.
I say to the DUMMIES:
BRING IT ON!
I was at a wedding reception this weekend where a guest rose to tell a story about the bride and started off by saying "unlike George Bush, I don't need a teleprompter", to which someone else called out "you're doing a good job, Brownie".
Tacky and tasteless.
Definitely. Perhaps the tackiest and most distasteful display I've ever seen was Ron Reagan's eulogy of his father last year. He had to make personal swipes at President Bush, even at his own father's funeral!
You're welcome. Lurking on DU is a way of peeking into their minds. I must say, they do write what they feel.
How do you do it? I don't think I could stomach Lurking the DUmmies' site...it's enough to make a person want to vomit...
We never had to "try to remember" - we always knew it.
Or,....perhaps I'm just sick.
Just so. I thank you for lurking on DU. I can't stand the place -- I was banned almost before I hit the "Enter" on my first post several years ago.
You lurk there and report back to us when something needs FReeper attention, OK?
You are saving me a passle of time and aggravation!
I've toeyed with registering and posting there, but I've never done it.
Just as soon as DU finds out a new poster is "not a progressive," they ban him/her.
I think there are LIEberals on the FRee Republic, and so long as they mind their manners and obey JimRob's rules, they can post and debate the issues of our day.
When they get out of line, ZOT!
Unlike DU, which bans conservatives on general principles.
Will there be an entire chapter on "Have More Babies?"
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