Muslims to journalists: "Convert or Die!"

The Trumpet ^ | August - 29 - 2006

[PRePublic]

Muslims to journalists: "Convert or Die!"

Convert or die. That is the message that Muslim terrorists sent by freeing two kidnapped journalists only after they “converted” to Islam on videotape at the point of a gun. The International Herald Tribune reported,

The two journalists from Fox News—Steve Centanni, 60, an American, and Olaf Wiig, 36, a freelance cameraman from New Zealand—were held for 13 days in an abandoned garage in the Gaza Strip as hostages of a previously unknown group calling itself the Holy Jihad Brigades.

“I’m really fine, healthy, in good shape and so happy to be free,” Mr. Centanni told Fox News. He said the two were forced at gunpoint to say that they were converting to Islam and took Muslim names.

“I have the highest respect for Islam,” he said. “But it was something we felt we had to do because they had the guns, and we didn’t know what … was going on.” …

Centanni said that the men were forced to make videotapes decrying American policies and converting to Islam.

The event made for an interesting photo op, as Hamas leader-turned Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Ismail Haniya posed with the journalists after having asked their captors to release them.

But this feel-good moment has a sinister undertone, impossible to ignore: We live in an age when the fastest-growing religion on Earth includes a mushrooming contingent of adherents who are determined to spread their faith through medieval methods.

Convert or die is hardly a new message; it has been employed by religions in spurts throughout the ages. Sadly, those spurts represent the bloodiest chapters of human history.

To this point, the response from those being so blackmailed has been no more confrontational than that of these journalists, who simply did exactly as they were told. However, we can expect that in short order, Western resistance—particularly within continental Europe—will solidify. Evidence of a coming backlash is already building. 

[PBRSTREETGANG]

"Islam" means "submit". There is nothing ambiguous about it.

Those who choose to ignore this in order to be politically correct do so at their own (and everybody else's) peril.

[Northern Yankee]

I'd be curious to know what were their religious convictions were before the forced conversion.

[livius]

I doubt that they were gung-ho Christians. But by "converting" they also renounced modern all modern Western secular belief - in things such as individual liberty, equality, and free will - by submitting themselves to Islam and thus to sharia, Islamic law. Islam is both a political system and a religious cult, and they accepted it.

I think this is a terrible precedent, and I think we're going to see more and more kidnappings and attacks where the Muslims demand that their victims convert. After all, it was pretty easy in this case; while the reporters were roughly treated and no doubt uncomfortable and afraid, it doesn't even sound as if they were tortured or seriously beaten or abused. Just the threat of it was enough to get them to publicly renounce their principles, thus proving to the Muslim mind that we in the West have nothing that is really important to us and for which we will fight.

[sinkspur]

I'd be curious to know what were their religious convictions were before the forced conversion.

What difference does that make?

Anything done at the point of a gun is coercion and should be ignored.

[COBOL2Java]

I think this is a terrible precedent, and I think we're going to see more and more kidnappings and attacks where the Muslims demand that their victims convert.

And it shouldn't be a surprise at all! They're just reliving their early history, aren't they?

[sinkspur]

Just the threat of it was enough to get them to publicly renounce their principles, thus proving to the Muslim mind that we in the West have nothing that is really important to us and for which we will fight.

It means nothing. Let's not get carried away because a couple of guys didn't want to die over a phony, coerced "conversion."

No "principles" were renounced.

[COBOL2Java]

Anything done at the point of a gun is coercion and should be ignored.

It's terrorism nonetheless. I consider myself a very devout Christian, and I would like to think that, were I in the same situation, I'd reject their demand, thereby (very likely) risking my life. But who knows how I'd react? And if I did "go along" with it out of fear, could I look myself in the mirror from then on? I think I'd be very, very ashamed. What does one do?

[livius]

Yes, they were. If you accept sharia, which is what one does in an Islamic "conversion," you cannot possibly accept Western principles. Many people throughout history have died rather than renounce their principles by publicly adhering to their opposite.

Who knows what any of us would do if actually living through such a situation? But facing life with the idea firmly in mind in advance that it does not matter what you adhere to, what you say, what you do, so long as you survive with your destroyed, emasculated integrity dooms you to failure at the very beginning. I have been very surprised by the many people on this forum who say that they would say or do anything, no matter how it violated what they believed, if it let them survive.

Remember, these guys hadn't even been seriously tortured; they were afraid, threatened, and simply decided to do an end-run around the whole problem because to them it wasn't particularly important anyway. If we all have that attitude, then prepare to have your kids grow up under sharia.

[tamed]

Belief in a void, perhaps.

[sinkspur]

If you accept sharia,

They did NOT accept sharia.

And we are not going to be living under sharia, or accepting it, either.

But facing life with the idea firmly in mind in advance that it does not matter what you adhere to, what you say, what you do, so long as you survive with your destroyed, emasculated integrity dooms you to failure at the very beginning.

Oh for Gawd's sake! You believe that any jack-leg with a gun pointed at your head forces you to compromise your integrity?

This was a phony situation, a phony, coerced "conversion," and it was publicly renounced the minute Centani and Wieg got in front of a microphone.

Neither man has any reason to feel "emasculated" for not supplying blood for a bunch of renegade Islamists.

[SouthernBoyupNorth]

Given the choice of a bullet or paying lip service to Islam I will pay lip service to Islam. Then after I get my weapons from home I will hunt the F#*@*$ down and blow them away.

I will live to bury my enemies. nuf said.

[livius]

All coerced "confessions" are phony, but many people have resisted them and emerged with their integrity. Others have not resisted and have been killed anyway, and died knowing that they had given away the only thing left to them.

My point, which no one seems to be willing to answer, is where we draw the line. If we go into a battle already decided that we will surrender to the enemy as soon as the going gets tough, we are never going to win.

[livius]

Perhaps, but I suspect that having submitted verbally and publicly also lessens one's will to fight later.

This is complicated by the fact that we are living in a time when words have lost their meaning ("Look at me. I did not have sex with that woman," for example...) and lying is assumed to be normal practice. In fact, we can practically assume somebody is lying unless we have absolute proof otherwise. The result is that people don't feel that what they say really matters.

My feeling is that it does, and that sooner or later, we have to decide at what point we simply dig our heels in and refuse to be coerced. That doesn't mean that we're going to necessarily be brave enough to resist when the time comes, but at least we're going to try.

[Aquinasfan]

“I have the highest respect for Islam,” he said.

Maybe he won't after he finds out the punchline. A forced conversion is considered a valid conversion in Islam, and apostasy necessitates the death penalty.

I'd also like to know what's "medieval" about forced conversions. The Catholic Church has always rejected the validity of forced conversions.

[george76]

 

[yobid]

But this feel-good moment has a sinister undertone, impossible to ignore: We live in an age when the fastest-growing religion on Earth includes a mushrooming contingent of adherents who are determined to spread their faith through medieval methods.

Is it really the fastest growing religion? I see it as the fastest DYING religion. Methinks this is a global urban legend.

[Northern Yankee]

Anything done at the point of a gun is coercion and should be ignored.

Explain that to those who have been martyred for their faith.

[sinkspur]

Explain that to those who have been martyred for their faith.

And you liken Centani's "conversion" as a denial of his faith? I wouldn't.

[Northern Yankee]

And you liken Centani's "conversion" as a denial of his faith? I wouldn't.

I never said that. I just think when you make a statement that forced conversion doesn't really count, it flies in the face of Catholic/Christian teachings, and diminishes those who take very seriously their faith in God.

Christ died for us. Are we not obligated to do the same for him?

[PRePublic]

Good point.

[sinkspur]

Christ died for us. Are we not obligated to do the same for him?

No. Reading a coerced statement at the point of a gun praising Allah is a political, not religious, stunt done for PR purposes by nutcase Islamists. One is not obligated to die for a political cause.

I can't believe how seriously you, among others, take this "conversion." They renounced it immediately. Yet you think they should have become martyrs to the equivalent of a neighborhood Palestinian gang.

[nutmeg]

Excellent and very appropriate cartoon!

[nutmeg]

FoxFan ping!

Excellent cartoon posted in #16

Please FReepmail me if you want on or off my FoxFan list. *Warning: This can be a high-volume ping list at times.

[Northern Yankee]

I can't believe how seriously you, among others, take this "conversion."

Well...You're not God, so I don't really worry about what you have to say.

Blessings to you!

[sinkspur]

Well...You're not God, so I don't really worry about what you have to say.

I'm not the one sitting in judgement of Centani's and Wieg's actions.

[george76]

Thanks.

.

[Victoria Delsoul]

I'd be curious to know what were their religious convictions were before the forced conversion.

Agreed. I kind of made the same point to you in my freepmail last night. I don't know if they are Christians, or if they truly believe in God.

However, since they were forced to make a public video where they proclaimed their conversion to Islam, it would've been fitting upon their release, to renounce their conversion in front of the cameras. “Don't get me wrong here [Centanni said] I have the highest respect for Islam, and I learned a lot of good things about it, but it was something we felt we had to do because they had the guns, and we didn't know what the hell was going on.”

If he has the highest respect for Islam... is his respect for Christianity lower?

That was the moment when he and Wiig should've renounced Islam and proclaimed Christianity as the true religion. But Alas, instead, they both praised the Palestinians as being beautiful and kind-hearted people. Yeah, right... 63% of such wonderful people have elected a terrorist government - the kind of government that had these 2 converted at gunpoint. Centanni and Wiig were more concerned with the Palestinians' cause than they were concerned about renouncing their conversion to Islam.

I've been looking for the video in which they renounced Islam, but couldn't find it. So, I'm posting the only 2 videos I found.

[Victoria Delsoul]

They renounced it immediately

Care to post the video?

[sinkspur]

Care to post the video?

I don't have the video. But that doesn't mean I didn't hear them say that the "conversion" was phony.

Or are you, with a straight face, contending that these two accepted a "point-of-a-gun conversion"?

[diamond6]

"Convert or die."

Didn't Steve later say that the Palestinian people were a gentle and peace people?


I'm so confused.

[Victoria Delsoul]

No video? I want to see the video. If they praised the Palestinians, why didn't they renounce to Islam for all of us to see?

[sinkspur]

If they praised the Palestinians, why didn't they renounce to Islam for all of us to see?

They renounced their conversions. Sorry you missed it.

[Victoria Delsoul]

If they did, find the video. Thanks.

[sinkspur]

Sorry you missed it.

[stands2reason]

They've been getting attacks for not refusing to "convert" and martyring themselves.

[stands2reason]

Just the threat of it was enough to get them to publicly renounce their principles, thus proving to the Muslim mind that we in the West have nothing that is really important to us and for which we will fight.

These men do not deserve to be criticised for refusing to martyr themselves. They have families that are happy they didn't.

[sinkspur]

They've been getting attacks for not refusing to "convert" and martyring themselves.

I know. The arm-chair Pharisees are out in full force on these threads, chastising a couple of news guys because they didn't shed blood at the hands of an Islamist gang.

[Victoria Delsoul]

But that doesn't mean I didn't hear them say that the "conversion" was phony.

Where does it say that the conversion was phony? I posted a link and videos, check out post # 28

And this is all it says about it:

“Before being released Steve Centanni and Olaf Wiig, the two journalists who were held hostage in Gaza, were forced to convert to Islam and read statements critical of the U.S. government on videotape. After being freed, they renounced their conversion to Islam. Steve Centanni had this to say about the forced conversion:

"We were forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint. Don't get me wrong here. I have the highest respect for Islam, and I learned a lot of good things about it, but it was something we felt we had to do because they had the guns, and we didn't know what the hell was going on."

Nowhere does it say: I renounce to my conversion to Islam, etc, etc.

[sinkspur]

"We were forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint.

A forced conversion is no conversion. Surely you understand what Centani is saying here.

[Victoria Delsoul]

The media said they renounced their conversion to Islam, but neither Centanni nor Wiig actually said it. That's why there's no video of it, as the only video upon their release is the one I posted (post #28,) where they both praised the Palestinians and said nothing about renouncing Islam.

If “We were forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint. Don't get me wrong here. I have the highest respect for Islam,” means renouncing to Islam... I have an island to sell you for 100 bucks.

[Victoria Delsoul]

Forgot to ping you to post #41.

[Victoria Delsoul]

So why didn't they say it clearly and without the BS.... "I have the highest respect for Islam, don't get me wrong stuff?"

[sinkspur]

You are wrong. He blew off his conversion by stating that it was forced.

[HungarianGypsy]

My husband and I talked about this last night. He made a great point. As a Christian it is believed if we die we will go to Heaven. If you are killed you will go to Heaven where there is no worry of terrorists with guns. If you convert, you will still have terrorists holding guns on you.

[Victoria Delsoul]

And you are right, happy now? LOL!

Good talking with you, Sink.

[sinkspur]

So why didn't they say it clearly and without the BS.... "I have the highest respect for Islam, don't get me wrong stuff?"

Because there are other journalists working in Islamic countries and he makes nice rather than slam Islam.

But he clearly will not be a Muslim any time soon.

[Victoria Delsoul]

But he clearly will not be a Muslim any time soon.

I know he won't. I didn't think they will, but that's not the point here.

Because there are other journalists working in Islamic countries and he makes nice rather than slam Islam.

Like the terrorists care about that, lol. They have beheaded liberal journalists who sided with them before.

[sinkspur]

I know he won't. I didn't think they will, but that's not the point here.

The point is that a lot of otherwise thinking people on this forum have wedgies over a phony conversion. It never happened. The Catholic Church states that a forced conversion is no conversion.

[Victoria Delsoul]

Are they Catholics?