Posted on 02/09/2008 8:59:59 AM PST by davidosborne
JUST SAY NO --- Plan for a Conservative victory in 2012....
JUST SAY NO : To John McCain ^
JUST SAY NO - To John McCain PART II (How the left will destroy John McCain..... MUST READ)
JUST SAY NO : To a third PARTY.. (Republican Party is NOT dead -- YET)
Okay folks here we are.. we all know that the conservative majority in America has suffered a tremendous blow in the 2008 Presidential race.. but the conservative base is STILL in the GAME, and while we are down we are NOT defeated .... YET..
I would like to introduce the --
JUST SAY NO --- Plan for a Conservative victory in 2012....
In the previous threads I and a few other freepers tossed around the idea of conservatives voting FOR the HildaBEAST or OBAMA... whichever the case may be....I would liket to present FOUR (4) reasons why I think this is a good strategy for victory in 2012...
#1 JUST SAY NO ...
- First and Foremost... IF we rally behind McCain we send the message to the RNC that we will ALWAYS pull the lever for the "R" no matter how unacceptable the candidate is.... the argument that we "hate the "D" more than the "R" ---> voting for the lesser of 2 evils is no longer acceptable to the conservative base in America... PERIOD <----
#2 JUST SAY NO ...
- Voting FOR the HildaBEAST or OBAMA in the General Election will give a LOPSIDED VICTORY to the "D" thereby making their win CLEARLY illegimate to the WORLD !! <--- and YES the WORLD watches U.S. Politcs.. and if all the PUNDITS get on board with this plan we can futher the conservative agenda around the world even more... bringing in a 3rd party will ALWAYS result in a LIBERAL victory.. the fact is the CONSERVATIVES are the majority, yet conservatives will split their vote every time.. while the minority LIBERALS stand united and WIN... every time... In a strong TWO-Party system conservatives win EVERY TIME... in a 3-party system LIBERALS win .. EVERY TIME....
#3 JUST SAY NO ...
-- and a VERY important part of this plan.. we need to DEFUND the PRESIDENTIAL RACE in 2008.... sending a dime to the RNC, or sending a dime to McCain sends the message that the Conservatives in America will support ANYONE with an "R" -- and I just can't do that anymore...
#4 JUST SAY NO ...
-- and just as important as #3 is this... we need to divert ALL of our time/money that would normally be spent on the presidential race to the CONGRESSIONAL RACES... and here is why.. we MUST take back congress to keep the HildaBEAST or Obama in check.. there are several obvious reasons for this.. but I would like to point out ONE important but not so obvious reason... and this should help ease the conscience of anyone who THINKS they are "supporting" Obama or the HildaBEAST by voting for him/her... not only will a lopsided "victory" actually be --> GLOWING defeat...<-- the conservatives in congress will be EMPOWERED to aggressively oppose her administration because they will be able to say.. "Yes, I voted FOR you because the RNC candidate was unacceptable.." --- think about this way.. HOWEVER, IF we support McCain, and he actually is able to win (which I doubt) the conservatives in congress will feel OBLIGATED to support his agenda, and it WILL be the END of our TWO-PARTY SYSTEM... This is the MAIN reason why a THIRD-Party approach to 2008 is UNACCEPTABLE... IMHO..
TOWARD VICTORY (in 2012)
BTTT
It seems that all the party regulars have closed ranks around McCain, and are lecturing us about it. I wonder who they hope to convince - us, or themselves, or maybe the undecideds, with whom they hope to be able to win without us - a most forlorn hope, imo.
I’m still writing Hunter in no matter what. My primary is over and I’m looking forward to defeating Levin and Stabenow. (we took out my congressional RINO in the last election.)
David -
I think there are good arguments for supporting and not supporting McCain in the general election. It's a matter of how low one sets one's minimum standards.
I would hope you would not throw the baby out with the bath water, the wheat out with the chaff, and give up on those who do decide they can vote for McCain.
Personally, I would not have been able to vote for Rudy or Romney in a general election, so I know how you feel, but I will for McCain.
I’m strongly tempted to write in Ronald Reagan. Even though he’s dead, he’d still make a better president than any of the rest of the rotten choices we have today.
The ONLY way to make this happen is for the BASE to not only REJECT McCain.. but to reject ANY conservative who endorses him..... PERIOD....
Before you write in Reagan I hope you’ll read this article by Michael Reagan and consider a living choice. I think you’ll like the article.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MichaelReagan/2007/10/10/where%e2%80%99s_the_fire
One suggestion?
For 2012, we need ONE conservative candidate that we can all back. Conservative tend to prefer governors, they’ve actually RUN SOMETHING. Barring any unforseen misfortunre between now and 2011, I put forth the ticket of Barbour/Jindal.
JohnnyZ,
I am sorry to hear that you have set your “conservative” bar low enough to vote for McCain.. just remember that in doing so.. you are sending the message to the GOP that will pull the lever for ANY candidate that has “R” next to his name.. I seriously encourage you to consider the fact that IF McCain wins we are MUCH worse off than if the HildaBEAST or Obama wins.. because the Republicans in congress will feel obligated to support the “R” in the WhiteHouse.... that is a fact my FRiend..
IMHO.... the ONLY real conservative choice for 2012 is Duncan Hunter.... BAR NONE..
Sorry, but I am not for federally funded abortion mills. The GOP nominee will get my vote.
Amazing the rationalization it must take to nominate McCain, who hates us, has actively blocked conservative policies, run a shadow gov with the Dims and the MSM, agitated against the Pres, VP, and the DOD, in public during wartime, and has run a liberal campaign claiming gov can control the weather and the earths temperature.
Simply amazing considering none of our other candidates (RG,MR,FT), save Huck and Paul, have done, or have vowed to do any of the above mentioned. And wanted to be hired to work for us, using their skills to battle our enemies, the terrorists, the Dims, and the MSM.
Stunning really, that the GOP base would nominate someone who vows the complete opposite.
That will be fine if you want to have 2-3 liberal supreme court judges put in place for the next 40 years.
That will be fine if you want surrender in Iraq.
Wish you had listened to Rush the other day. He was discussing this “teach the GOP a lesson” tactic.
Per Rush - he told us that if we sat out the 06’ elections, we would get someone like John McCain as president.
So, thanks to all of the people that played that hand in ‘06 and other elections, thanks to all who prefer to moan and complain but not be responsible for the direction their vote takes us - we now have the choice of Hillary, Obama, or John McCain.
Rush advised that all we can do now is start at the local level and support the conservatives we find because that is where our next conservative leaders will come from.
He also advised that all we can do now is insure that we get as many GOP people into the congress. Because, IF there is a democrat congress and a McCain or a Hillary/Obama, McCain will only push through the democrat agenda, that no conservative judges will be seated and that there will be surrender or mismanagement in the war.
So, playing the vote for the opposition gain will be just that - another cave by the conservatives because they disrespect their vote.
We need a few fighters - not quitters.
And I am sick to death of the thought that if we destroy we will eventually win.
That is quitter politics and will never win anything.
We live in a society that more and more wants government to solve all problems and pay all bills. So, don’t ever think your one vote will convince them they need to give up the government welfare.
We have to fight it daily - not give it away.
I’m surprised at you.
Our vote is needed to further the conservative cause - not cave to the enemy. I’m sure Hillary/Obama will gladly take your vote - it helps them set up their socialism and destroy conservatism.
“IMHO.... the ONLY real conservative choice for 2012 is Duncan Hunter.... BAR NONE..”
Part of his problem is lack of name recognition. Another is that he’s not run anything. He’s voted. That’s it. I love the guy, but he will not win. If he get in the race, other more well known conservatives will jump in, and we will wind up right back where we are today, with a closet Dem receiving the nomination.
I’m still writing Hunter in no matter what”
You and me both...
My US Congressman, Zack Wamp,is running for re-election one more time, then he’s running for TN Gov in 2010...
I’m going to help him in his campaign again...
He came in to congress in 1994, and he’s conservative in all areas and loves the troops and the veterans...
Unfortunately we have nobody running against US Senator Lamar Alexander this year...he was going to vote for the AMNESTY Bill but lots of phone calls changed his mind..
not gonna happen if we get on board with this idea....since the WORLD will know that the victory was a LOPSIDED/PROTEST VOTE..... The REPUBLICAN LED congress will be seen by the WORLD as the REAL leaders not the one that occupies the White House between 2008-2012.. that person will be seen and viewed as the PUPPET of the Republican led CONGRESS...
The WHITE HOUSE is NOT the prize my fried.. electing CONSERVATIVE LEADERS is the prize... we seem to foget that the CONGRESS IS EQUAL in POWER to the PRESIDENT... I wish folks would quit thinking that President IS the power... doesn’t work that way folks..
Per Rush again.
We are seeing the leaders of the GOP telling the conservatives to bug off. We are an embarrassment to them. The superior elites that they are, they feel they know better what will win elections and gain power.
So, what do we do?
We fight every step of the way for conservatism ideals. But, we never give away our government to the socialists. We just move in another direction and make gains where we can.
If we quit and run everytime the liberals win - how could we ever win.
Our soldiers don’t quit and run - they fight the enemy to the death.
If we are willing to turn our government over to the liberals knowing full well they will cut and run in the war - we are not worthy of the soldiers sacrifice.
Can’t we take a little bad news. Afterall - we asked for this result during the ‘06 elections when many decided to teach the GOP a lesson and not vote. So, gee, of course we lost ground. Who would have thought.
And, I have not noticed that anybody cared that we did not vote. In fact, the leaders of the GOP are thrilled to see the conservatives quit - they want to take over the party.
Seems would be a little more effective to be a thorn in their side on every conservative issue and to grow our numbers - not run and take our toys home.
I plan to.
While WE were busy beating all of the Republican hares with our single-issue sticks, the tortoise snuck by and won California by huge margins...
GAME OVER.
We had our chance to stand for our beliefs, and now we MUST come together behind the Party’s nominee, or face the sure disaster FOR YOUR CHILDREN of outright leftist rule in America...
Get over it, folks.
This may not be the result we wanted, but it IS the one we have.
At least we don’t have the spector of Super-Delegates selling them selves on TV to the highest bidder at convention to contend with...
I’m voting - for people with a documented conservative record. I will not vote for John McCain under any circumstances and I refuse to budge one more inch to the left. If you want to do that, and can still look at yourself in the mirror the next day, that’s fine for you. I can’t do it anymore.
I have news for you - the world does not care if you vote a protest.
All the world cares about is what they can get the government to give them.
We are in the stage of democracy where people are learning they can vote themselves funds from the treasury. And that is about No. 4 in the 5 steps of the ending of democracy and the start of a dictatorship.
The government will willingly give it to them to buy votes and seal their power.
Your protest just gets you out of the way.
So let me say - I will never join another of these lamebrain “teach the GOP a lesson” ploys. I have seen the result of the ‘06 “teach the GOP a lesson” ploy - and it is John McCain, Hillary and Obama. The GOP could not even provide us a decent candidate for President of the United States.
It is not much chance of getting any conservative judges seated on the supreme court because the whole government will be run by democrats. Our freedom of speech will be slowly taken away from us.
We will have the global warming radicals ruling our lives with stupid environment laws. Gun laws will be changed, the military will be again decimated and the muslims will work their way into our society the same as they are doing in England.
You might have noticed how the government already has muslims in it and all lengths are gone to to protect their “feelings”. We see articles that they don’t like the “Three Little Pigs”, the movies are showing them in glorified positions rather than as terrorists.
So, your vote will be working for them.
Not me - I am going to be a fighter for conservatism.
We need another Contract with America, or an open letter, say from Rush Limbaugh to McCain with alist of demands.
If he wants our votes, he’s going to have to get down on all fours to earn it. Of course then he would lose his moderates, which is his home turf.
I wish supposed conservatives would quit thinking they have control over the GOP when they keep on quitting the fight.
How can you ever have a say in the GOP - if you quit?
Thanks to views like these we do not have a candidate for president because we had quitters making statements by not going to the polls.
Did anybody call and ask where you were? No, they moved their agenda forward without any opposition. So, you look at the situation today (that you helped cause) and say “Gee, I’m going to vote for a liberal so I can help conservatism.
Yeah right. You only help a liberal and you quit the fight for conservatism because you would rather brag about your one vote showing the GOP.
They are glad to get rid of conservatives - they are taking over the party. So, why would they care if you sit out? Means they move in easily.
We share the same goal my FRiend.. just two very different visions on how to achieve.. voting for McCain is a step BACKWARDS not TOWARD the goal that we both share my FRiend..
TOWARD VICTORY (in 2012)
Clinton or Obama are both competent enough to make it through 4 years in the White House without alienating their base, and may even be blessed with a relatively friendly economic climate. Should this happen, it would be close to impossible to dislodge them from office in 2012. And should one of them name the other as their running mate (which I strongly suspect is going to be the case), that would mean another possible 8 years for that one to assume command.
That would leave subscribers to your plan in the position of actually hoping for bad things to happen to America during the next 4 (8, 12, 16?) years just so they could say 'I told you so'. Otherwise the next viable chance for a republican presidency may not be until 2024.
You sure you want to wait that long?
“Staying Home” is what got us the 2006 disaster, folks...
Rush and the rest of the supposedly conservative radio talkers need to put the names of real conservatives out there instead of feeding the sentiment that men like Hunter can’t win.
All the name recognition and electability in the world have left us with a candidate who can’t win.
I have not QUIT the GOP ... in fact I am trying to SAVE it my FRiend..... the ONLY alternative is a 3rd party candidate which will ultimately result in a victory for the MINORTY liberals... see Ross Perot/Clinton..... do we REALLy want to repeat that???
Wow, you understand.
I’ll join you. There is no way I can look my grandchildren in the eyes knowing that I quit and ran rather than fight so that America will still be the same America I grew up with.
I will never vote for a democrat and I will hold my nose and vote for McCain to prevent Hillary or Obama.
Then I will send my money to the conservatives that support the views I hold - it will not go to the GOP.
Then I will do as Rush suggested, look at the local level and start supporting the ones that are conservative because that is where our next leaders will come from.
I will work hard to get conservatives elected to congress and hopefully will find some that are fighters rather than cavers or quitters as we have here.
I don’t see that happening my FRiend... however what I do see happening IF we actualy put McCain in the WhiteHouse is a HUGE step backwards.. because the conservative congress will feel “obligated” to support the “R” in the WhiteHouse..
So, consider yourself a liberal. Explain just how not voting will help elect conservatives?
Notice we do not have any since the ‘06 elections and others did not vote.
Thanks to the non-fighters - we have only McCain because that is what the GOP gave us. Why give them the party?
I voted like a good little republican in 2006, even though I had to hold my nose to do so. Please stop blaming us, the voters for that loss. The blame rests squarely on George W. Bush and the wimpy GOP leadership. It was amnesty that lost them the election and now they are going to force it on us anyway with John McCain. Does that not anger you?
Blaming the voters is like blaming an abused wife for getting beat up by her abuser husband. At some point, the abused has got to gather up enough self esteem to say, “enough is enough”. I’m leaving even though it will make my immediate future very difficult - but in the long run - for the good of me & my children, it’s the right thing to do.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Change has got to start somewhere.
And yes, I plan to vote for conservative republicans down the ballot from President. I just refuse to vote for John McCain.
sorry... that rhetoric is NOT going to work this time.. that is what got us the FIRST CLINTON...... It is time for CONSERVATIVES to retake control of the GOP... starting with the CONGRESS !!! Not the WhiteHouse in 2008.... that will need to wait til 2012.. and yes we CAN survive 4 years of Clinton/Obama since our CONSERVATIVES in congress will be viewed by the entire world as the real LEADERS... IF we follow my war plan
I noticed your tagline: (VOTE DEMOCRAT-You’ll look great in a Burka!)
Try this one: (VOTE MCCAIN - You’ll look great in a sombrero!)
no the wimps in the GOP gave us McCain because they destroyed the BEST candidate in the race DUNCAN HUNTER.. by saying he did not have the “name recognition” to win.. what a bunch of wimps... but it’s not too late for us to take back the GOP.. but voting for McCain IS NOT the winning strategy..... it will only push our party further and further to the LEFT...
“Staying Home” is what got us the 2006 disaster, folks...”
NO, Republicans behaving like Democrats got you that. Judging by the establishment closing ranks around Juan McAmnesty, your party has yet to learn.
Whether you personally see it happening or not, it could happen. And in the meantime, as I said before, you will be rooting against America and praying something bad happens to our nation. Otherwise your strategy will fail.
Let's look at it from the other angle. If McCain wins the White House then either he will at least rise to a level that is acceptable to the conservative base (in which case no harm no foul) or you will have 4 years to mobilize an effort to unseat him in 2012. If he does as badly as you think he will then that would likely be a lot more probable than taking on Clinton/Obama after 4 years of satisfying their base.
If you really want to look to 2012 as your next chance to shift the Republican party to better match your views you would have better luck against McCain than either of the Democrats.
In case you missed Rush this week. Here is what he sees happening.
If there is a democrat congress and John McCain
A president judges success by getting things done. He will be unable to get anything done - except if it follows their agenda, not ours. So, look for more assault on free speech, more environmental nonsense, more money spent, no conservative judges seated because they will filibuster until he has to compromise. And, McCain will compromise because that is how he operated for all these years.
If there is a democrat congress and Hillary/Obama
- The power of the government will be in the hands of ultra liberal politicians. So all of what we fight against will move steps forward. We are still correcting the damage of the Clinton years and no telling what will happen with the world situation, terrorists, our military, medical care, etc.
There will be no conservative SC judges, only liberals appointed, activist judges on the bench, corruption and selling of our secrets, weakened military.
So, our only choice is to get as many conservatives elected to congress as possible to stem the damage.
We have no choices for conservatism thanks to the sitting out of ‘06 and the lesson taught to the GOP.
Now watch liberalism go full throttle because the conservatives decided to cave and go home.
So, thoughts that McCain will be controlled will not work - he will have no choice with a democrat congress to do anything but what the dems tell him.
..at present it is my plan to vote as I did in the primary, but I understand how you feel...
You don’t win by voting for the enemy.
Can you imagine our soldiers doing that? A vote is either yes or no to the candidate offered. A no to one is a yes to the opposition. A yes is counted the same whether from a protest or a party member.
Your only real option is to ensure that next time - the choices are more conservative. And you do not get to have a say unless you sit at the table and have enough numbers to be listened to. So don’t give the party to the moderates - fight them. Don’t give the government to liberals - fight them. Staying home helps only the enemy to win.
So, all our years of fussing about Bush not being perfect, we now have wasted our opportunity to ensure we had a conservative to elect. Time to do some real work and help our conservatives made a difference by supporting them - not tearing them apart.
ABSOLUTELY NOT !! If you think I would for ONE SECOND.. pray that something bad happens to our nation.. you obviously have NOT read my resume' -- I forgive you :) --- PLEASE -- Go back to the top of this thread and RE-read ALL FOUR points... and if you still don't get it.... we can debate it further....
Let's look at it from the other angle. If McCain wins the White House then either he will at least rise to a level that is acceptable to the conservative base (in which case no harm no foul) or you will have 4 years to mobilize an effort to unseat him in 2012. If he does as badly as you think he will then that would likely be a lot more probable than taking on Clinton/Obama after 4 years of satisfying their base.
NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.. the media will spin a "close election" to mean that conservatives WANTED McCain... and we THE SHEEPLE --- Who obey the every commandment of the Liberal Media spin masters.... The GOP will forever produce RINO's
If you really want to look to 2012 as your next chance to shift the Republican party to better match your views you would have better luck against McCain than either of the Democrats.
NEVER GONNA HAPPEN...look what the GOP did to Duncan Hunter... CLEARLY the best/most qualified candidate... and the GOP rejected him on "name recognition"... what a bunch of wimps... WAKE UP CONSERVATIVE AMERICA !!!
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