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Expelled-- No Science Contained (Vanity)
Soliiton via cited sources | 4/20/2008 | Soliton

Posted on 04/20/2008 8:49:48 AM PDT by Soliton

“Intelligent Design” is of no scientific value in determining the origins of life in the universe. A designer would have to be supernatural (i.e. not subject to the laws of physics) or natural and subject to those laws. If the designer is natural in origin, then it would have to have been designed by another designer –again supernatural or natural. Ultimately come to an original designer that either evolved from a lower state of matter, or was created by a supernatural being. You will note that this is back to where we started. Science does not deal with supernatural phenomena by definition. Scientifically, the only answer is evolution. ID, however, is really about the cosmology of the Book of Genesis anyway, but if that is admitted, it can’t be taught in school. And there’s the rub.

The term “Intelligent Design” was adopted by the Discovery Institute, the originator of the ID movement, and a non-profit company that was incorporated specifically to get the story of Genesis taught in public schools (as specifically stated in the incorporation documents). To that end a Creationist textbook was published called Of Pandas and People.

In 1987, The Supreme Court of the United States ruled that teaching creationism in public schools violated the separation of church and state in Edwards vs. Aquilard.

In a similar later case, Kitzmiller vs. The Dover Area School District involving the school’s acquisition of Of Pandas and People, it was proven in court that the publishers and the people who financed the purchase lied in depositions when they stated that Intelligent Design wasn’t just another term for Creationism. They did this by showing that dozens of passages in the pre-1987 Edwards vs. Aquilard copies of the book used “Creation”, while later versions substituted “Intelligent Design” in its place.

The entire Intelligent Design movement is a dishonest, legalistic Trojan horse specifically intended to teach creationism in public school even though it is against the law.

Complete transcripts of Kitzmiller vs. Dover can be found here:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dover/kitzmiller_v_dover.html


TOPICS: Religion; Science; Society; UFO's
KEYWORDS: evolutio; expelled; id; intelligentdesign; stein
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1 posted on 04/20/2008 8:49:48 AM PDT by Soliton
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To: Soliton
Why should it be forbidden to discuss any theory on any subject in educational institutions?
2 posted on 04/20/2008 8:55:26 AM PDT by JennysCool (They all say they want change, but they’re really after folding money.)
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To: JennysCool

ID isn’t a theory. It is religion. I cited the SCOTUS case. It shouldn’rt taught in school only because it is illegal to do so.

IDers should promote the IDA (Intelligent Design Amendment. Conservatives and Christians normally obey the law.


3 posted on 04/20/2008 8:59:07 AM PDT by Soliton (McCain couldn't even win a McCain look-alike contest)
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To: Soliton

And you believe evolution ISN’T a religion?


4 posted on 04/20/2008 9:04:07 AM PDT by srweaver (Never Forget the Judicial Homicide of Terri Schiavo)
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To: Soliton

So don’t go see it. That’s your choice


5 posted on 04/20/2008 9:04:34 AM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: Soliton

It isn’t just happening in science, it’s happening in language and history as well. “Liberal” education czars are more and more ensuring that only one interpretation of events may be discussed — no more of that pesky questioning and debate stuff. It’s all part of ensuring that we all think “correctly.”

And another big reason why America just keeps getting dumber and dumber.


6 posted on 04/20/2008 9:05:34 AM PDT by JennysCool (They all say they want change, but they’re really after folding money.)
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To: Soliton

The real question is, why dose ID scare you terribly?


7 posted on 04/20/2008 9:08:49 AM PDT by svcw (I reject your reality and substitute my own.)
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To: Soliton

Christians are under no obligation to follow immoral or unethical law.

I find it ironic those who disagree with ID will cite law to boost their incorrect opinion wrt whether it can and should be taught in schools, then turn around and tell Christians they should follow whatever is unethical.

Since you ignored the previous post, evolution is a form of religion. It’s just that people are not allowed to disagree with it, because of its human origin.

People are waking up to this reality, which has the other side shaking in their boots. But you already know this.


8 posted on 04/20/2008 9:09:58 AM PDT by dbreidenbach
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To: JennysCool

I agree with your entire post. And here’s a bump to it!


9 posted on 04/20/2008 9:10:19 AM PDT by processing please hold ( "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.")
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To: Soliton
“Intelligent Design” is of no scientific value in determining the origins of life in the universe. A designer would have to be supernatural (i.e. not subject to the laws of physics) or natural and subject to those laws."

Then the Big Bang theory has no scientific value either because once you follow it back to the singularity all known laws of physics fall apart and we are dealing with the supernatural. Should we quit teaching that also?

10 posted on 04/20/2008 9:11:01 AM PDT by joebuck (Finitum non capax infinitum!)
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To: Soliton

‘morning, Soliton. :)


11 posted on 04/20/2008 9:11:48 AM PDT by processing please hold ( "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.")
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To: JennysCool
Why should it be forbidden to discuss any theory on any subject in educational institutions?

I'm sure you'd have a problem with a required course regarding why Christians have an inferior mindset and should be either enslaved or murdered.

At some point, you draw the line.

Perhaps you make it an elective course. Or perhaps you simply say, we're not going to teach something that is simply incorrect.

But you do have to draw that line somewhere.

12 posted on 04/20/2008 9:12:31 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Soliton

While I am not in the ID side of the argument I see things in physiology, microbiology and the absolute math that governs the universe that does make me question the supposed randomness that governs life.

BTW I would argue that intelligent design is a concept as old as natural history, dating back to Plato and Paley, the latter having coined the term design on numerous occasions.


13 posted on 04/20/2008 9:13:06 AM PDT by aft_lizard (born conservative...I chose to be a republican)
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To: srweaver

No - evolution is science.


14 posted on 04/20/2008 9:15:33 AM PDT by tokenatheist (Can I play with madness?)
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To: dbreidenbach

In what way is evolution a religion?


15 posted on 04/20/2008 9:16:24 AM PDT by tokenatheist (Can I play with madness?)
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To: Soliton

May the Intelligent Designer pass You by in Eternity, at least no logic was wasted on your being.


16 posted on 04/20/2008 9:18:23 AM PDT by True Republican Patriot (God Bless America and The Republicans)
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To: True Republican Patriot

And the ID side starts with the personal attacks.

The ID side can not do science nor can they do debate. Can they do anything other than produce movies and books for profit?


17 posted on 04/20/2008 9:19:44 AM PDT by tokenatheist (Can I play with madness?)
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To: Soliton

I would like my children to be exposed to the underlying tenets of Christianity in school. I would like them to be taught the moral lessons that are readily available in The Holy Bible in school. The government penalizes me for this by forcing me to pay for other people’s children to go to government school while paying a second time for my own children to go to school.

This is the issue that it all boils down to. I’m forced at gunpoint to pay for things that are, to me, obviously wrong.


18 posted on 04/20/2008 9:22:54 AM PDT by MarineBrat (My wife and I took an AIDS vaccination that the Church offers.)
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To: True Republican Patriot

http://kids4truth.com/watchmaker

I like the theory at the above link!


19 posted on 04/20/2008 9:24:43 AM PDT by buck61
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To: aft_lizard

Thanks for a thoughtful reply. I have become somewhat of an expert on this subject in the last few days and it was a very painful process.

If you read my post and actually review the transcript of Kitzmiller, you will see the ID of the ancients as a very different critter than the current ID Movement. I have no problem with ancient cosmologies involving titans, gods, or great serpents creating the universe, or gos creating man. These are religious concepts however, not science. My problem is the dishonest attempt to disguise creationism as science by hiding behind ID and calling it science. At the same time, they take a heavilly supported and accepted theory like evolution and claim it as religion. I am defending scientific method, not just evolution. The barbarians are at the gates.


20 posted on 04/20/2008 9:24:55 AM PDT by Soliton (McCain couldn't even win a McCain look-alike contest)
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