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Drill here, drill now: Answering the "won't help now" response
TigerHawk ^ | 6/29/2008

Posted on 06/29/2008 7:53:56 AM PDT by shove_it

The chief practical argument coming from those who oppose opening our continental shelf and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge for drilling is that it will take ten years to get the oil so it will not have any impact on current oil prices. The response is that is factual and analytical hogwash, insofar as the whole point of futures markets is to discount the impact of changes in future supply.

It is also, by the way, reasoning that many on the left would not want applied to their own pet project:

My response to those who say that increased drilling is pointless because it won't yield immediate results -- like Arnold Schwarzenegger --is why worry about the greenhouse effect, then? Nothing we do will cool the planet immediately. Yet we're told immediate action there is vital. In fact, we're told that by none other than Arnold Schwarzenegger, in the very same speech.

One would have thought that this point was so obvious it would not have to be made at all. But then, one would also think it obvious that a "windfall profits tax" on oil companies would reduce the supply of oil in the future, since we have empirical evidence from the Carter fiasco that it will, yet Barack Obama continues to push the idea. That the mainstream media refuses to call Obama to account for the obvious impact of "don't drill, do tax!" on gasoline prices reveals them as utterly unthinking or completely in the tank for the guy. It is hard to know which it might be. Maybe it's both!


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: energy; junkscience
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To: milky
(milky Since Jun 19, 2008)

You obviously do not know or understand much about oil exploration and drilling, especially deep water exploration and drilling where much of the 33 million acres you refer to are located. The fact is that you cannot just punch a hole into a leased parcel on the sea bed and expect to hit oil, just as you cannot do that on surface land. You first must map the underlying formations and make the best determination where, if any, oil reservoirs exist. Following that you will need to map the seabed to determine what infrastrucure is needed to pump, collect and retrieve the crude that is located.

If you had read the Wall Street Journal article several days ago that explained that, you might have not written your post. The article explained that, until the lessee has a producing well on a parcel--regardless if he has been actively exploring and surveying the parcel for the past five years, the government considers the parcel to be inactive--thus the disinformation the past week emanating from the Democrats. It does sound like, however, that you have already made up your mind and no amount of fact will change it.

41 posted on 06/29/2008 10:53:28 AM PDT by RightWingConspirator (Redefeat Communism by defeating the Obamanation in 2008)
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To: 2harddrive
3-D seismic shows the fields where they have not yet drilled don’t contain formations large enough to justify the cost.

And we wonder why the same idiots keep getting elected when they say things exactly like "with 33 million acres of offshore already leased to oil and gas companies, are they not drilling THERE, already? They are only drilling some 17% of it".

I have heard the same leftist dribble talking points on every 'news' show I turned on.

Press Here Harry Reid's talking points.

"33 Million Outer Continental Shelf Acres Under Lease Are NOT Being Drilled. There are 33 million acres of the federal OCS lands that are under lease but are not producing."

42 posted on 06/29/2008 10:58:47 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: milky
Here are facts - check it out:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2037974/posts

I would much rather American money go the “Seven Sisters” than OPEC. Google “OPEC members” for a list of these wonderful countries. The “Seven Sisters” may scam me some but they won't blow up my town or saw off my head.

Welcome to Free Republic. I'm keepin’ an eye on you, eh.

43 posted on 06/29/2008 10:59:32 AM PDT by shove_it (and have a nice day)
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To: RSmithOpt

I talked to my Sis in Idaho yesterday and she was telling me about a proposed nuclear plant somewhere near Mountain Home. It seems that the anti-nuclear moonbats have already come out of the woodwork and are screaming that the project will “poison generations of children” and are promising lawsuit after lawsuit to stop the project.


44 posted on 06/29/2008 11:00:20 AM PDT by RightWingConspirator (Redefeat Communism by defeating the Obamanation in 2008)
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To: milky
“Is everyone at FR like-minded on this issue? How may people here know the FACTS?”
No.
Most.
“They are only drilling some 17% of it, currently”
There isn't oil in every square foot of the lease?
Every square foot hasn't been explored?
Leases areas are large areas POTENTIALLY containing oil?
“Why do they want to drill in ANWR and offshore where there is a moritorium? They do not WANT to drill in ANWR - or anywhere else, OBVIOUSLY. What they DO want to do is consolidate”
Pick one or the other, either the oil companies DO want to drill or they DON'T. And nothing has kept them from consolidating in the past (they have already, Exxon-Mobil?).
“...continue to hold these leases and limit the amount of drilling on them in order to both control and increase the price of oil for their own profits and purposes.”
Non-producingg leases are often let go but with the price of oil up it's worthwhile to purchase more leases. Oil in ground is worthless without the capital to bring it to market hence producers take in lots of money and spend lots of it to bring in more oil.
“Ask yourself - whose assets will increase more if domestic oil is NOT DRILLED in the USA? OPEC’s, or the “Seven Sisters’s”
Opec’s. Price goes up on increased demand. Domestic oil in ground is worthless unless it can be brought to market.
My turn for a question. Would you compare logic to a cat fish in murky waters or to a shovel handle wrapped in tape and rosined up?
45 posted on 06/29/2008 11:03:07 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: milky
"Why drill in ANWR?"






Why Not?!!!!

46 posted on 06/29/2008 11:12:32 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: shove_it
I guess that’s why Exxon announced they were getting out of the retail gasoline business - there’s too much money in it.

Exxon doesn't need the retail gasoline business. They can make all their money on the wholesale end. The retail gasoline business only accounts for a few cents of profit on a gallon of gas.

47 posted on 06/29/2008 11:23:02 AM PDT by wideminded
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There are several other reasons the coastal plain is distinct from the rest of the ANWR. It is not part of the hills and mountains of the Brooks Range, where the environmentalists take their beautiful photos of the ANWR. It is a flat, treeless, almost featureless plain in northeastern Alaska that extends from the Brooks Range northward to the Beaufort Sea. There are times on the coastal plain when exposing human flesh to the elements would ensure death. The temperature can drop to -40 degrees Fahrenheit in January. Few animals can thrive in those temperatures.

Only five species of birds, some polar bears (who den on the Beaufort Sea pack ice) and lemmings (who burrow beneath the snow-pack) remain during the winter months. There are 56 days of total darkness during the year, and almost nine months of harsh winter.

The spring thaw comes in late May or early June. This increases the bird count and brings back the arctic fox and, most significantly, the Porcupine caribou. While only a portion of the caribou herd shows up each year, many environmental activists refer to the coastal plain as their traditional calving grounds. The females endure the conditions of the tundra for protection against most predators and for the cotton grass that will help to fatten their offspring.

The caribou travel to the coastal plain from Canada, passing near 89 dry wells drilled by the Canadian government and crossing Canada's Dempster Highway--all of which seems to be development that does not hinder theirmigration or survival.

Our only experiment with oil fields and caribou has taken place nearby on Alaska's North Slope in Prudhoe Bay. The Central Arctic caribou herd that inhabits part of Prudhoe Bay has grown from 6,000 in 1978 to 19,700 today, according to the most recent estimates by state and federal wildlife agencies.

In fact, there is some evidence that the caribou use un-vegetated and elevated sites such as river bars, mud flats, dunes, gravel pads and roads in the existing oil fields as relief habitat from mosquitoes and from oestrid flies that attack their nostrils. The 1995 legislation vetoed by President Clinton would have given the secretary of Interior the power to stop development and exploration during the summer months if there were any threat to the caribou.

Environmentalists also worry about the polar bear, though most biologists will tell you that the bears rarely den on land in this region, preferring the arctic ice. Alaska's polar bear population is healthy and unthreatened. The Marine Mammals Protection Act takes care of the polar bear in the existing oil fields--and would do the same on the coastal plain.

Senator Frank H. Murkowski (AK)

Press Here for more...


"Drill Here. Drill Now. Save Money."

48 posted on 06/29/2008 11:27:02 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: shove_it

10 years, 5 years, 1 year, 1 day - whatever

a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step

since the democrats have no other solution, they need to shut up and let the adults try *something*

let exxon take those ‘obscene profits’ they earned and place it at risk by drilling where the oil is known to be - not on the ‘68 million acres’ where there is no oil

the democrats are preventing us from getting the oil and lowering prices - and taking a gamble that the voters are not smart enough to understand that - what scares me is that the gamble might pay off for them


49 posted on 06/29/2008 11:28:13 AM PDT by sloop (pfc in the quiet civil war)
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To: LOC1
Or ten years from never, which is what the no-drilling crowd has in mind.
50 posted on 06/29/2008 1:32:27 PM PDT by Christopher Lincoln
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To: wideminded

Yeah, I know, plus a bunch of bad press about that $4.599 gas. I was just teasing Milky.


51 posted on 06/29/2008 4:41:34 PM PDT by shove_it (and have a nice day)
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To: DPMD

Politicians realizing that all Americans aren’t mushrooms and dumber than a sack of rocks is not going to help them RIGHT NOW COME NOVEMBER!!


52 posted on 06/30/2008 1:32:22 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: RightWingConspirator

Guess they can sit in the dark, wait 3 months for dry goods by wagon to arrive and walk to work for all I care....what a bunch of uniformed, ignorant morons....nukes are the cleanest, safest, cheapest, and most efficient forms of generating electricity. Guess they’ve failed to read about Yuma Mtn. being completed and open for business too? What about breeder reactors? Very little waste with those designs.


53 posted on 06/30/2008 1:39:24 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: kcvl

Considering the FACT that no major Oil Company or Exploration Firm has ever conducted mass HDP surveys of the 33 million offshore acres in question, how can they know how much oil is contained therein? How can they know that there is oil under the reas described in the moratorium, either?


54 posted on 06/30/2008 5:04:39 AM PDT by milky
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To: shove_it

I think you are evading the issue, but to answer your query, you are right. There isn’t enough profit in the stations themselves to justify Exxon keeping some 8000 people on the payroll at about 1400 US retail service stations. Notice that whomever buys the stations will STILL be selling EXXON’S gasoline, under the EXXON brand, however. There is still some $$$ to be made refining, apparently.


55 posted on 06/30/2008 5:04:39 AM PDT by milky
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To: Flycatcher

I have no issue with capitalism. It’s demonstrably the most successful economic system we have yet come across.

I have an issue with Oil and Gas companies who have not properly surveyed some 33 million acres of active offshore leases saying that HAVE TO open up UNPROVEN, sensitive environmental areas to drilling.

I have no problem with them conducting mass HDP surveys in these environmentally sensitive, “moratorium” areas, either - as long as they do the same with the unexplored 83% of the areas they have already leased!


56 posted on 06/30/2008 5:04:58 AM PDT by milky
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To: bolobaby

Considering that Congress has actually BEEN saying this for a decade or more, it does actually seem like somewhat of a real argument.

I have nothing against oil exploration. If the Oil and Gas companies would actually DO a little more “exploring,” and a little less “politicking,” this would not be an issue.

I see this as being about CONTROL of resources, not exploration, at all.


57 posted on 06/30/2008 5:05:03 AM PDT by milky
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To: LOC1

I think that you are forgetting that leases have been granted at a rate of over 350% since 1998, and these leases have, as yet, not been properly surveyed AT ALL.

They DO NOT WANT TO DRILL. The cheaper they make oil, the less profit they make, the cheaper their assets and net worth become. They need to CONTROL these leases - they certainly do not need to exploit them.

Where did you hear that they returned “sizeable amounts of leased property?” I had heard that they sold leases on almost 5000 acres of US land that they HAD NOT SURVEYED to third party exploration firms working under the Chevron brand, but that is it, as far as I know...


58 posted on 06/30/2008 5:05:03 AM PDT by milky
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To: RightWingConspirator

Considering my previous employment with Irving in NB, I believe that I’ve got a pretty fair handle on underwater oil exploration and HDP surveying. The FACT is, they have only surveyed some 25% of the acreage in question, and have only chosen to exploit 17%. 68% is a pretty good percentage, don’t you think? I have no idea what the percentage of exploitable reserves would be if they surveyed the remaining 75% of their active leases in the US, but then again, neither do they - which is the point I have been attempting to make.


59 posted on 06/30/2008 5:15:12 AM PDT by milky
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To: milky
Considering the FACT that no major Oil Company or Exploration Firm has ever conducted mass HDP surveys of the 33 million offshore acres in question, how can they know how much oil is contained therein? How can they know that there is oil under the reas described in the moratorium, either?

Considering the FACT that you don't know much about oil exploration I won't waste my time trying to explain it.

60 posted on 06/30/2008 7:45:45 AM PDT by kcvl
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