Skip to comments.Saddam HAD WMD
Posted on 01/12/2009 10:07:47 AM PST by Welcome2thejungle
Dr. Joseph Goebbels, the notorious Nazi propaganda minister, once said if you repeat a lie often enough, the people will come to believe it.
One of the biggest lies perpetuated by the DemocRATS in recent years is that "Bush lied, people died" with respects to Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's WMD programs.
I am currently reading "Shadow Warriors: The Untold Story of Traitors, Saboteurs, and the Party of Surrender" by Kenneth R. Timmerman.
On page 119, Timmerman writes the following:
"In his interim report to a joint session of the House and Senate intelligence committees on October 2, 2003, David Kay emphasized the breathtaking scope of Saddam's weapons programs. The entire country had been a gigantic weapons plant, he said. There were over a hundred major facilities engaged in various phases of the WMD effort, and hundreds more depots where weapons once had been stored. Sophisticated concealment efforts by the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) had succeeded in keeping the most sensitive aspects of Saddam's WMD programs from international inspectors over the years."
Timmerman then goes on to list the findings of the Kay Report in specific detail.
But to this day, the majority of the American people have been sold on the DemocRAT crock of crap that there was a "failure" in our intelligence reports and the liberation of Iraq was a big mistake, or worse, deliberate lies from the Bush administration.
Now we know who was telling the real lies. But it's too late. The political damage to the GOP accomplished in the 2006 and 2008 elections has succeeded in placing the radical left in charge of the executive and legislative branches of the federal government. Anyone who followed BHO's policy pronouncements during the campaign knows full well what he plans on doing to our military.
In books and articles, Richard Miniter has also outlined the WMD found in Iraq.
Is the David Kay report available to us mortals?
CNN has this, though, that says Kay said there were not WMDs:
The last few years have been a find demonstration of the continuing power of the "big lie" when used as a propaganda tool. The same technique is being applied to global warming.
"War is peace!"
"Hot is cool!"
I would like to add, though, that I DO believe that they had WMDs as we gave them to Saddam in the 80’s. They are probably in the Bekaa (sp?) Valley.
On June 9th , the UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission briefed the Security Council about the export of Iraqi WMD, missile and nuclear components shipped out of Iraq before, during and after the invasion. As reported by MENL news service, UNMOVIC acting executive chairman Demetrius Perricos told the Council, "The removal of these materials from Iraq raises concerns with regard to proliferation risks," and said inspectors found Iraqi WMD and missile components shipped abroad that still contained UN inspection tags.
The World Tribune reported on Perricos's briefing. "He said the Iraqi facilities were dismantled and sent both to Europe and around the Middle East at the rate of about 1,000 tons of metal a month... The Baghdad missile site contained a range of WMD and dual-use components, UN officials said. They included missile components, reactor vessel and fermenters ... required for the production of chemical and biological warheads. 'It raises the question of what happened to the dual-use equipment, where is it now and what is it being used for,' Perricos's spokesman, said. 'You can make all kinds of pharmaceutical and medicinal products with a fermenter. You can also use it to breed anthrax.'"
Retired Air Force Lt. Gen. James Clapper, head of the National Imagery and Mapping Agency, said vehicle traffic photographed by U.S. spy satellites indicated that material and documents related to the arms programs were shipped to Syria."
"Last month Moshe Yaalon, who was Israel's top general at the time, said Iraq transported WMD to Syria six weeks before Operation Iraqi Freedom began.
Last March, John A. Shaw, a former U.S. deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said Russian Spetsnaz units moved WMD to Syria and Lebanon's Bekaa Valley.
"While in Iraq I received information from several sources naming the exact Russian units, what they took and where they took both WMD materials and conventional explosives," Mr. Shaw told NewsMax reporter Charles Smith.
Retired Marine Lt. Gen. Michael DeLong was deputy commander of Central Command during Operation Iraqi Freedom. In September 2004, he told WABC radio that "I do know for a fact that some of those weapons went into Syria, Lebanon and Iran."
In January 2004, David Kay, the first head of the Iraq Survey Group which conducted the search for Saddam's WMD, told a British newspaper there was evidence unspecified materials had been moved to Syria from Iraq shortly before the war.
"We know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD program," Mr. Kay told the Sunday Telegraph.
Also that month, Nizar Nayuf, a Syrian journalist who defected to an undisclosed European country, told a Dutch newspaper he knew of three sites where Iraq's WMD was being kept. They were the town of al Baida near the city of Hama in northern Syria; the Syrian air force base near the village of Tal Snan, and the city of Sjinsar on the border with Lebanon.
In an addendum to his final report last April, Charles Duelfer, who succeeded David Kay as head of the Iraq Survey Group, said he couldn't rule out a transfer of WMD from Iraq to Syria.
"There was evidence of a discussion of possible WMD collaboration initiated by a Syrian security officer, and ISG received information about movement of material out of Iraq, including the possibility that WMD was involved. In the judgment of the working group, these reports were sufficiently credible to merit further investigation," Mr. Duelfer said."
"The short answer to the question of where the WMD Saddam bought from the Russians went was that they went to Syria and Lebanon," former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense John A. Shaw told an audience Saturday at a privately sponsored "Intelligence Summit" in Alexandria, Va. (www.intelligencesummit.org).
"We are not talking about a large stockpile of weapons," he said. "But we know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD programme. Precisely what went to Syria, and what has happened to it, is a major issue that needs to be resolved."
"Two days before the war, on March 17th, we saw through multiple intelligence channels - both human intelligence and techinical (satellite,eavesdrop) intelligence - large caravans of people and things, including some of the top 55 Iraqis, going to Syria."
See also: What Charles Duelfer Missed
A ha, you see things being twisted, too, eh? Front is now back, bad is now good...
Any thinking person knows Saddam had WMD, and moved it prior to the war. I think there is a legitimate reason that the Administration has not made that case.
I am sure there are quite a lot of things that the Administration has done in the interest of our safety, which cannot be talked about publicly in the interest of protecting informers and other people — including political figures from nations unfriendly to us who may have helped us here and there.
It must have been hell for President Bush and his team to have to take all the insults and out-and-out lies from the media and the Democrats when exculpatory evidence had to be kept secret.
Even President Bush repeated this today, saying no weapon were found. I will never, ever understand this administration unwillingness to defend itself.
The correct answer, no spin, is that we identified a very active weapons program and many laboratories, small scale weapons, etc. We unfortunately, did not uncover a huge arsenal ready to be deployed as the intelligence had predicted, but the programs were in place to expand the production in a short period of time.
This is a perfectly acceptable answer...it would have satisfied a lot of people.
Even if one were to produce a dated photograph of Saddam sitting astride a chemical missile shell waving a beaker full of anthrax in each hand, our liberals would still say that George Bush took the country to war for a lie and there were never any WMD's and there was no connection between Iraq and terrorism, period, end of story, hands-over-ears-yah-yah-yah-I-can't-hear-you!!! like the three year-olds they are. Except that they've won and the adults lost.
Both the Kay report and the Deulfer (sp?) report detailed the broad extent of chemical and biological weapons facilities, equipment, personnel and records that were found after the invasion. The programs were intact. The facilities were intact. The only thing not found in great quantity were the storehouses of ready-made weapons. They’d been cleaned out. It is all but certain that some stockpiles were evacuated to Syria. Tommy Franks was sure of it.
Saddam’s WMD programs were the problem, and now they’re not. Taking him out was absolutely the right thing to do.
If GW Bush had done NOTHING and one of these weapons were used in the USA in another 911 attack, the media would have crucified GW for not protecting this country......
Damned if you do,damned if you don’t
Saddam Hussein had 14 months while the USA was presenting their case to the UN attempting to persuade the UN into upholding international law.
During this time, Saddam was able to move his WMD programs into the nations of his neighboring allies.
Israel destroyed Syria’s nuclear program in ‘08. Where did the matterial for Syria’s destroyed programs come from?
By the time President Bush concluded that if international law was going to be upheld and enforced he would have to do it with the American military, Russian trucks had helped to move Saddam’s WMD programs across the desert.
I will never understand the mindset of this president.
Yes there were weapons of mass destruction found along with plans to reconstitute previous plans for WMD.
Further, there was NO reason on earth for him to take back his yellow cake statement in his SOTU.
One wonders if we will ever know the truth.
See my post above yours.
In any war there are things which have to be kept secret, lest informers and others be compromised.
What is amazingly galling is how the press acted as if it was the final arbiter of everything regarding Iraq and the War on Terror when it was probably privy to only a miniscule fraction of the big picture.
I believe that is incorrect.
Though Goebbels is often given credit for that line, it was Lenin who should be credited. The exact quote is;
"A lie told often enough becomes truth" - - Vladimir Lenin.
I was going to make the same point. Your suggested answer is the correct one, with maybe an addition that some intelligence suggests that weapons were moved out of the country before the invasion.
We did not give Saddam WMDs. Where did you get such information and what kind of WMDs are you alleging?
best book of 2008....
All conservatives are aware of this.
Few moderates are and most Democrats couldn’t care less.
Bush II simply could not connect the dots for the benefit of the unwashed masses. Unfortunately they could vote however.
JIM LEHRER: So, as of now at least, you have found no weapons of mass destruction, correct?
DAVID KAY: That is correct. We have found no actual weapons at this stage, although we're not foreclosing any files or any possibilities. We're still at work.
JIM LEHRER: Is there any evidence at this point as to whether or not Iraq had weapons of mass destruction at the time of the beginning of the Iraq War?
DAVID KAY: There are indications, there are Iraqis who say that but there is nothing yet that rises to the level of evidence. This is, though, a continuing, important and continuing investigation.
I’ve said this several times before, and I still suspect that the reason Bush bought into the “no-WMD” story so early and stuck to it was simple: it was more important to discourage Al Queda from sending teams out into desert depots looking for them.
Remember that the Bush admin didn’t just buy-in to that story, they *sold* it earnestly from the very beginning. There were even a few stories of WMD stocks being found in the initial invasion but these stories were squelched and denied immediately.
It’s also possible that there are still ongoing searches happening in some locations around Iraq. I recall Iraq being described not as having many ammo depots, but basically the whole country *being* an ammo depot with literally tens of thousands of locations to examine. It could take years to fully check out the whole place. And yet... the story was sold right after the invasion that there was nothing to be found. How could they have known this? They couldn’t. But it wasn’t worth the risk that there might be something out there to be found and having lots of bad guys out there trying to get ahead of you.
Just a thought.
Add to this that there was that interesting little raid by “Israelis” deep into Syria’s Bekaa Valley a while back that incinerated lots of stuff... and Syria was amazingly quiet about the whole affair. A nuclear plant? Really? Anything else there perhaps that the Syrians didn’t want known to have been there? And maybe if we’d shut up they would too? Another thought.
Quite....in WW11 Churchill allowed the city of Coventry to be bombed, although he knew it was going to happen because the German code had been cracked. To evacuate Coventry would have alerted the Germans that their code was compromised.
You will not get your answer.
Because of the Carter Administration’s mess up in Iran and the turmoil created there Iraq thought it would be a good time to attack and take over Iran’s southern oil fields. This was in the early 80’s. Iran counter-attacked with such overwhelming force, the Iran army’s “human wave” that there was a real threat that Iran would defeat and conquer Iraq and be in control of vast middle eastern oil. This could not be allowed to happen so the Reagan Administration armed and supported Iraq enough so the two nations would fight to a stalemate. BRILLIANT!
The reason the Reagan Administration found it necessary to arm and support Iraq was because of Carter’s mishandling of Iran and America’s ally the Shah.
Keep in mind too that Chemical and Bio weapons are never the sort of thing that you ever want to heavily stockpile in advance. Nobody would do that. You make enough to get you started if you need to use them, and then you make the rest as you need it.
Large stockpiles are a logistics and storage nightmare. These agents also have a shelf-life. Containers have a shelf-life. This stuff is a genuine hassle to have on hand, and generally you’d make up just enough for some quick action. Having a lot of it to take constant care of is a bigger problem than it is worth.
You are exactly correct. I would like to add, however, that Dr. Goebbels shared Lenin’s cynicism toward the value of propoganda. Goebbels wrote:
“That propaganda is good leads to success, and that is bad which fails to achieve the desired result”
Goebbels also wrote, “It is not propaganda’s task to be intelligent, its task is to lead to success.”
Think of the left’s mindless slogans; some of it crap from the 60s like “hey, hey, ho, ho...cause du jour has to go.” And then of course their recent mindless little rhyme, “Bush lied, people died.”
For whatever reasons, the Bush administration just refused to emphasize this. They could have had a home run some many times and they let it go right by. Confusion, Alzheimer’s, or whatever I just have always found it odd.
I know the history and the USA did not arm Iraq with WMDs. Ever!
That is a great example.
I am certain the War on Terror has occasionally required similar tragic decisions. We may never know how many.
For some reason that escapes me President Bush and others high in our government did not seem to want the public to know the truth about WMDs in Iraq or the extent Sadaam was involved with encouraging/supporting terrorism against the U.S. It makes no sense to me, might have been a failure to communicate the truth or unwillingness to stand up to the media and critics of the war- or a real desire to sweep it all under the rug- but for what reason??
That is correct. The US did not arm Iraq with WMD. The mistake we made was unwittingly send them the germs that they ended up turning into WMD, i.e. anthrax, botulinum toxin, etc.. They would have ended up getting it elsewhere, but it is what it is. We did not arm Iraq with WMD!
The CDC (Center for Disease Control) sent the Iraq Department of Agriculture the anthrax. The USA sends anthrax to a lot of developing countries for live stock research purposes.
GWB is the precise opposite of BHO. GWB hates tooting his own horn. BHO, well...
At the time I was reading a ton of books about Saddam’s weapons program. I don’t remember all of their titles; I know one was Saddam’s Bombmaker. All sources reported a thorough system of making and procuring weapons of mass destruction.
While it was true that sometimes the generals or scientists would LIE to Saddam about what they had, because bad news would bring death to the messenger, they had quite the array of preparations for nukes again, and every kind of chemical and biological weapon imaginable.
Saddam was being ripped off financially daily, because his “diplomats” were in Europe paying 100s of times as much as they should have for ingredients and supplies to make weapons, with both the supplier and the “diplomats” receiving HUGE kickbacks.
WHY were these facts never available to the public? The world’s press is useless. Maybe books will be better sources than news in the future. Only the literate will be able to judge truths.
That is correct. There was also a private company involved, but I forget the name.
Genius. Of course that is what happened.
And Bush must have known that he would be looked on as a dunce and a murderer, to take it all onto his shoulders, in order to protect the American troops in harm’s way, as well as any targeted place in our or the other western countries that Al Qaida would have chosen.
This makes perfect sense. I may not agree with Bush on everything, but that was some serious courage. Not too many other Presidents would have had the b*lls.
The guy who did supply Saddam with the pecursors for Saddam’s WMD used against the Kurds and Iran was prosecuted back in 2005. And yes, he bought some of those precursors from the USA, but that in no way was the USA giving Saddam WMDs as many here at FR think as do most liberals swear to.
“Man who supplied Saddam’s chemicals guilty of war crime”
December 24, 2005
“A DUTCH businessman was found guilty of war crimes and sentenced to 15 years in prison yesterday for helping Saddam Hussein to acquire the chemical weapons that he used to kill thousands of Kurdish civilians in the Iran-Iraq war.
The ruling by a court in The Hague which could have an impact on the trial of the former Iraqi dictator in Baghdad also said that genocide had been perpetrated against Kurds in Iraq after Saddam accused them of collaborating with Iran. “
Right from the get go, we gave Saddam plenty of warning that we were coming, so he had at least 30 days to move his WMD’s and/or equipment and labs for developing WMD out of Iraq. I am certain a lot of stuff went to Syria.
I think no matter what proof exists about Saddam’s WMD (remember the Sarin gas he used on Iranians, then on Kurds?, liberals will still cry there were no WMD’s. Of course, if Barack Obama says there were WMD’s, then the liberals would believe him, as he is their Messiah and his word stands.
“... the media would have crucified GW for not protecting this country......”
He is is getting cruicified and will do so until the Son of God returns.
Unfortunately, I am afraid you’re right.
I only have one main issue w/ GWB- why won’t he pardon Border Agents Compean and Ramos? Is it because he is very close to his appointed US Attorney, Johnny Sutton? That is my only ‘beef’ w/ Bush. Other than that, he’s done a good job with what what handed to him when he became Pres. We’ve had no more terror strikes on US soil since 9/11. I fear what happens while BHO is in office. Caviar parties with his radical associates and/or the Taliban?
Sure describes the democratic party and main stream media's philosophy in recent history.
Thanks. Good stuff.
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