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Liberals Are Leading America Into Fascism
Start Thinking Right ^ | April 3, 2009 | Michael Eden

Posted on 04/03/2009 8:47:49 AM PDT by Michael Eden

More and more, we are seeing our country moved not just toward European socialism, but toward fascism (which, of course, is also European). As this longtime trend now dramatically picks up speed, we should first realize a couple of critical points: First of all, socialism, communism and fascism are kissing cousins, intimately related to one another. "U.S.S.R." was an acronym for "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics." "N.A.Z.I." was an acronym for "National Socialist German Workers' Party."

Second, both communism and fascism are products of the left. Ask yourself this: if we had a "National Socialist American Workers' Party," does it sound to you like something that would be more in line with conservatives and Republicans or with liberals and Democrats?

I personally began to understand the link between modern American liberalism and fascism by way of my own study of postmodernism. This connection began with my readings of Gene Edward Veith's books, Postmodern Times and Modern Fascism. As a result of my readings I wrote an article, "How Postmodernism Leads to Fascism" - consisting of three parts (part 2; part 3) - exploring the relationship of the ideas underlying postmodern thought and fascistic thought. I subsequently came to discover that others had had similar understandings (e.g. see George Crowder's review of Richard Wolin's book, The Seduction of Unreason: the Intellectual Romance with Fascism from Nietzsche to Postmodernism entitled, "Are post modernists fascist?"

I must here hasten to add that neither Gene Edward Veith nor the aforementioned writers directly attempted in their projects to connect fascism with liberalism or with the Democratic Party. But in my readings I could not help but repeatedly hear striking similarities between the positions I was seeing inherent in postmodernism and fascism with the ideas coming out of the mouths of prominent Democrats.

My point is that when you study the presuppositions, the worldview, underlying postmodernism, and do the same thing with fascism, you begin to see far too many similarities to simply dismiss. It is fair to say that "postmodernism" is a philosophical perspective, and that "fascism" is the resulting political expression of postmodern thought. And the Democratic Party, in buying into postmodern thought, are increasingly buying into fascism.

If I had truly had an original idea in seeing a connection between modern American liberalism and fascism, Jonah Goldberg beat me to its examination in his thought-provoking work, Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left from Mussolini tot he Politics of Meaning. While my studies had focused primarily upon philosophy and underlying worldviews, Goldberg's book is a solid study of brute history.

Goldberg doesn't merely assign pejorative labels to people and groups he doesn't like. Rather, he painstakingly explores - through original sources and through the works of influential historians - the thoughts and policies of fascists such as Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler, and then demonstrates the clear connection of their thoughts and policies with the thoughts and policies of American progressives and liberals such as Woodrow Wilson, FDR, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, and others. Even George W. Bush - with his "compassionate conservatism" and his "No child left behind," is discovered to be connected with certain fascist tendencies (see page 23).

Nor does Goldberg set out to use his terms such as "fascist" and "totalitarian" as a harsh, negative, politically-charged charged accusation. For instance, of "totalitarianism" he says:

"But what do we mean when we say something is "totalitarian"? The word itself has certainly taken on an understandably sinister connotation in the last half century. Thanks to work by Hannah Arendt, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and others, it's become a catchall for brutal, soul-killing, Orwellian regimes. But that's not how the word was originally used or intended. Mussolini himself coined the term to describe a society where everybody belonged, where everyone was taken care of, where everything was inside the state and nothing was outside; where truly no child was left behind" (p. 14).
And he then leaves it up to the reader to decide whether "totalitarianism" - now properly understood in its historical context - is actually more compatible with the philosophy of conservatism or liberalism. And in the same way Goldberg does not set out to attack liberals by comparing them to Hitler, but rather to contrast the fascism of Hitler from the fascism of American liberals:
"This American fascism seems - and is - very different from its European variants because it was moderated by many special factors - geographical size, ethnic diversity, Jeffersonian individualism, a strong classical liberal tradition, and so on. As a result, American fascism is milder, more friendly, more "maternal" than its foreign counterparts - "smiley-face fascism." Nice fascism. The best term to describe it is "liberal fascism." And this liberal fascism was, and remains, fundamentally left wing" (p. 8).
But he demonstrates in the body of his book that the shoe - in this case the label "fascism" - clearly fits the modern American left - and NOT the right.

One of the reasons leftists have been able to charge the right with being "fascists" is the tendency of conservatives to place a high value on a powerful military - making them "militaristic" and thus fascistic in the minds of leftists. But this charge is simply unfair for two reasons: 1) because most conservatives want a powerful military in order to maintain a deterrent against attack from totalitarian regimes, not to defeat and despoil peaceful countries; and 2) because "militarism" is a mindset that has far larger overtones than merely creating military armies.

Of this second point, Goldberg writes:

"Consider militarism, which will come up again and again in the course of this book. Militarism was indisputably central to fascism (and communism) in countless countries. But it has a much more nuanced relationship with fascism than one might suppose... But for far more people, militarism was a pragmatic expedient: the highest, best means for organizing society in productive ways. Inspired by ideas like those in William James' famous essay "The Moral Equivalent of War," militarism seemed to provide a workable and sensible model for achieving desirable ends. Mussolini, who openly admired and invoked James, used this logic for his famous "Battle of the Grains" and other sweeping social initiatives. Such ideas had an immense following in the United States, with many leading progressives championing the use of "industrial armies" to create the ideal workers' democracy. Later, Franklin Roosevelt's Civilian Conservation Corps - as militaristic a social program as one can imagine - borrowed from these ideas, as did JFK's Peace Corps.

This trope has hardly been purged from contemporary liberalism. Every day we hear about the "war on cancer," the "war on drugs," the "War on poverty," and exhortations to make this or that social challenge the "moral equivalent of war." From health care to gun control to global warming, liberals insist that we need to "get beyond politics" and "put ideological differences behind us" in order to "do the people's business." The experts and scientists know what to do, we are told; therefore the time for debate is over. This, albeit in a nicer and more benign form, is the logic of fascism - and it was on ample display in the administrations of Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and yes, even John F. Kennedy" (pp. 5-6).

It's one thing to believe that we need a strong national defense; and quite another to seek to militarize an entire society toward goals chosen by autocrats. The former is simply prudent in a dangerous world; the second is fascist.

Having stated the fact that "fascism" is a species within the umbrella category of "socialism," there are yet distinguishing features that would make a particular "socialist" system "fascist." Sheldon Richman (of the Foundation for Economic Education) provides the distinction in The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics in his entry on "Fascism":

Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society's economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the "national interest"--that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.
Appearing on the Glenn Beck television program on April 1, 2009, Richman said:
"Under socialism there was no facade of free markets or capitalism, whatever you want to call it. Everything was just nationalized, and the economy was just a government operation. Under fascism - under Mussolini in Italy and then under Hitler in the 30s with the Nazis - they left intact what looked like private businesses; the government just dictated all the terms. But in both cases - in fascism and socalism - the market was effectively abolished. There was no marketplace. There was no bidding, there was no haggling, there was no market.

And that should give us an important disctinction of what is going on today in the United States. The market has not been abolished in the United States. It is very heavily burdened by government, but that is not the same as abolishing it."

Sheldon Richman acknowledges that we aren't fascist quite yet, but he also says:
"We've been on that road [moving away from our republic and toward a system of fascism] for a very long time. We've been on that road for ages, even into the 19th century. We sometimes take two steps forward, and then one back, sometimes we take one step forward, and two steps back. The GM and the AIG situations are more like fascism than socialism."
Jonah Goldberg likewise argues that the left has - to various degrees - embraced fascism since at least the early 20th century. And - in the light of the last few months - it is vital that we note that we have lurched not one or two steps toward fascism, but dozens of steps in what now frankly appears to a headlong rush.

I point out in a recent article that the last president who fired the CEO of a private company was Vladimir Putin. And the Obama administration has not only fired GM CEO Rick Wagoner, but it will not rule out firing other CEOs of private companies, as well. The Obama administration has already spent more and added more debt than every president from George Washington to George Bush - combined. We are looking at unsustainable levels of federal spending under Obama, which the Congressional Budget Office says will result in "an ever-expanding national debt that would exceed 82% of the overall economy by 2019."

We are watching a frightening takeover of the economy by the federal government in an incredibly short period of time from an administration whose chief of staff and whose Secretary of State have already essentially said, "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste... it's an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before."

Obama has appointed a global warming czar, Carol Browner, who had been one of the leaders of a socialist group whose position on global governance includes the view that the United States should abdicate its international leadership to international organizations, and that the international community should be the ultimate arbiter of climate change policy.

Obama nominated Harold Koh as the State Department's legal adviser, a man who:

"once wrote that the U.S. was part of an 'axis of disobedience' with North Korea and Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Koh also has long held that the U.S. should accept international law when deliberating cases at home.... Koh also advocates a 'transnational legal process' and has criticized the U.S. for its failure to 'obey global norms.'"
And now we have Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner literally saying he is open to replacing the US dollar with a new global currency:
Geithner, at the Council on Foreign Relations, said the U.S. is "open" to a headline-grabbing proposal by the governor of the China's central bank, which was widely reported as being a call for a new global currency to replace the dollar, but which Geithner described as more modest and "evolutionary."

"I haven’t read the governor’s proposal. He’s a very thoughtful, very careful distinguished central banker. I generally find him sensible on every issue," Geithner said, saying that however his interpretation of the proposal was to increase the use of International Monetary Fund's special drawing rights -- shares in the body held by its members -- not creating a new currency in the literal sense.

"We’re actually quite open to that suggestion – you should see it as rather evolutionary rather building on the current architecture rather than moving us to global monetary union," he said.

"The only thing concrete I saw was expanding the use of the [special drawing rights]," Geithner said. "Anything he’s thinking about deserves some consideration."

While Geithner flip-flopped on his "open" positon less than 24 hours after expressing it, all three high level Obama officials reveal a shocking openness - if not an outright call - for a new internationalist order in which we unpeg ourselves from our Constitution and move into international law as the source of our authority.

Which is more quintessentially fascist than anything this nation has ever seen, as former US ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton explained on the April 1, 2009 Glenn Beck program:

"There are a lot of people, some of whom are now in the Obama administration, who believe that the United States should move into a process of 'international norming,' where we conform our domestic laws to the international consensus - whether it's on death penalty or climate change, or gun control, a whole range of issues - for almost every domestic issue, there's a kind of international counterpart. I think this is fundamentally dangerous because I think ultimately it takes decision-making away from the people and our constitutional system and puts it into the international arena."
We have little enough sway over our own elected officials. Imagine how little influence we would have over unelected global autocrats imposing their "global consciousness" upon us.

And again, this is a trend that is now dramatically increasing in velocity. Liberal Supreme Court Justices have been looking to international law as a source for legitimization of the rulings they have wanted to impose on the American people for years.

Fascism has been coming into our country for decades. It is flooding into our country right now. And it is - and has been - liberals urging it upon us.

More than 150 years ago Alexis de Tocqueville predicted that such a smiley-faced fascist state would mean the death of liberty in America:

“Above this race of men stands an immense and tutelary power, which takes upon itself alone to secure their gratifications and to watch over their fate. That power is absolute, minute, regular, provident, and mild. It would be like the authority of a parent if, like that authority, its object was to prepare men for manhood; but it seeks, on the contrary, to keep them in perpetual childhood; it is well content that the people should rejoice, provided they think of nothing but rejoicing. For their happiness such a government willingly labors, but it chooses to be the sole agent and the only arbiter of that happiness; it provides for their security, foresees and supplies their necessities, facilitates their pleasures, manages their principal concerns, directs their industry, regulates the descent of property, and subdivides their inheritances; what remains, but to spare them all the care of thinking and all the trouble of living?”
Right now individual citizens as well as major banks and corporations such as AIG and General Moters are trading their freedom for security. But Benjamin Franklin addressed the tradeoff that we are seeing being made more and more often:
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: 111th; bho2009; bho44; bhofascism; congress; democratcongress; democrats; economy; fascism; globalism; liberalfascism; neomarxism; obama; socialism
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1 posted on 04/03/2009 8:47:49 AM PDT by Michael Eden
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To: Michael Eden

Will 0bama supporters/libs accept poverty and opression without question?


2 posted on 04/03/2009 8:49:18 AM PDT by unkus
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To: Michael Eden

I’m not sure what it is. All I know is that real fascists—and real communists for that matter—wouldn’t tolerate this same-sex marriage nonsense like what just happened in Iowa. Maybe we are sinking into something worse.


3 posted on 04/03/2009 8:51:08 AM PDT by seatrout (I wouldn't know most "American Idol" winners if I tripped over them!)
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To: Michael Eden

Wow. That is all I can say. Not that it surprises me, but wow.


4 posted on 04/03/2009 8:55:08 AM PDT by FreeSouthernAmerican (All we ask is to be let alone----Jefferson Davis)
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To: Michael Eden

bookmark for later


5 posted on 04/03/2009 8:55:16 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Michael Eden
Another writer sees the light

FASCISM is becoming the topic du jours

It is what has been occurring before us as first Bush43 then stooge obama choose (or have chosen on their behalf) unelected reps like Paulsen and Geithner as front men

then the frontmen intimidate the US congress into giving them massive an unaccountable funds to use to force scared private businesses into ostensibly benevolent “partnerships” (remember reports Paulson threatened to surround the uS Capitol with force to prevent Congress leaving unless Congress signed the TARP?)

then the frontmen (aka “the govt”) take over running the private businesses’ operations

6 posted on 04/03/2009 8:55:26 AM PDT by silverleaf (We live in interesting times: now the entire IRS works for a tax evader)
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To: Michael Eden

thanks to president zero

american businesses will be regulated from

brussels.


7 posted on 04/03/2009 8:55:31 AM PDT by ken21 (the only thing we have to fear is fdr deja vu.)
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To: seatrout
real fascists--and real communists for that matter—wouldn’t tolerate this same-sex marriage nonsense

Neither do Islamists.

Homosexual activists will be truly surprised when they realize what disposable tools they've been.

8 posted on 04/03/2009 8:58:06 AM PDT by polymuser ("We have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!" (HRC))
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To: polymuser

I said it before and I’ll keep saying it: “One small step for man, one giant goosestep for America!”


9 posted on 04/03/2009 8:59:13 AM PDT by Ev Reeman
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To: polymuser
Neither do Islamistsic fundamentalists. You are correct, though.
10 posted on 04/03/2009 8:59:45 AM PDT by seatrout (I wouldn't know most "American Idol" winners if I tripped over them!)
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To: Michael Eden

His comments on Goldberg’s book are completely accurate. That was one of the things I liked about it - Goldberg simply gave you the meanings and definitions as explained by those who came up with the ideologies and lived by them and then lets the reader see how obvious it really is...

Hitler and some of his minions were big animal rights people and had a lot of idiosyncratic beliefs that are in sync with much of what our “left” spouts. It was very eye-opening.


11 posted on 04/03/2009 9:01:35 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: unkus
Will 0bama supporters/libs accept poverty and opression without question?

If Ann Arbor is any indication I would say yes.

Ann Arbor area smokers shocked by price hikes as new tobacco taxes take effect

But it's for their own good so it's OK.
12 posted on 04/03/2009 9:03:54 AM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: seatrout

Hitler had no problem using homosexuals to achieve his goals.


13 posted on 04/03/2009 9:04:58 AM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: seatrout
"Neither do Islamistsic fundamentalists. You are correct, though."

That's ridiculous. Islamic extremists kill homosexuals...we just rebuke them and watch them parade around in SFS is silly get-ups.

14 posted on 04/03/2009 9:05:56 AM PDT by Earthdweller (Socialism makes you feel better about oppressing people.....)
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To: cripplecreek

Will they feel anything when 0bama’s boot is up their rear ends?


15 posted on 04/03/2009 9:06:01 AM PDT by unkus
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To: seatrout

I’m not sure what it is. All I know is that real fascists—and real communists for that matter—wouldn’t tolerate this same-sex marriage nonsense like what just happened in Iowa. Maybe we are sinking into something worse.
- - - - - - - -

That’s an interesting point.

Both the NAZIs and the communists went after homosexuals because they were emobodiements of decadence. The NAZIs had “Mercy wagons” that hauled off children with birth defects, chronic bed wetters, etc. etc. and euthanized them along with homosexuals and gypsies who were similarly determined to be “defectives.” They had a slogan to describe their program: Lebensunwertes Leben (Life Unworthy of Life).

The History Channel had a program documenting that the SA that Hitler used to rise to power was practically a homosexual organization. And MANY homosexuals have been pro-communist. But they were disposable (Hitler annhiliated them in the Night of the Long Knives). They were the embodiement of the term “useful idiots.”

Jonah Goldberg discussed fascism as a phenomena that - while sharing commonalities - took on a different face in every culture that embraced it. He contrasted Italian fascism from German fascism, for example, and discussed how American fascism would be a different species from either.

Fascism IS fundamentally intolerant, and WILL be intolerant in the US just as it was in NAZI Germany. The only question becomes, “Who will American fascism be intolerant of?”


16 posted on 04/03/2009 9:06:25 AM PDT by Michael Eden (Better to starve free than be a fat slave. Semper Vigilanis)
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To: Michael Eden

Not to belie the Authors underlying point too badly, but this quote:

“First of all, socialism, communism and fascism are kissing cousins, intimately related to one another. “

Is painful to read as a history scholar and not even remotely accurate as 31 Million Dead on the WWII European Eastern Front will attest.

Let’s keep our argument to the facts please, they’re on our side. Now is not the time for our side to be producing sound-bytes which can be used to incorrectly paint the entire Conservative Movement as “Ignorant of History.” This quote certainly could qualify.


17 posted on 04/03/2009 9:06:46 AM PDT by Ozymandi
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To: cripplecreek

—Hitler had no problem using homosexuals to achieve his goals.—

Until the Night of the Long Knives, when he purged the queer-dominated SA. After that, they were given striped pajamas with a pink triangle sewn on them and shipped off to “camp.”


18 posted on 04/03/2009 9:06:49 AM PDT by seatrout (I wouldn't know most "American Idol" winners if I tripped over them!)
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To: Michael Eden

liberals insist that we need to “get beyond politics” and “put ideological differences behind us” in order to “do the people’s business.” The experts and scientists know what to do, we are told; therefore the time for debate is over.

Yet, the left will pride themselves on:

1) open-mindedness( unless one disagrees then it’s hate speech)

2) celebrating diversity( capitalists and Christians not included)

3) engaging in civil debate( do as we say and not as we do)

4) possessing progressive ideas( economic equal outcomes = fairness)

5) personal privacy (unless it’s gov’t seizing of ones wealth)

6) free choices( as long as the state is providing the choices)


19 posted on 04/03/2009 9:09:14 AM PDT by Le Chien Rouge
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To: Michael Eden
I encourage all here to read Goldberg's book. It's scary to read that and understand how close the USA came to fascism itself in the first half of the 20th century.

I will also never look at Teddy Roosevelt with the same admiration again. He was a "progressive" himself.

I also never knew how many things we think of as patriotic in the USA actually started as a means to lead us to fascism. The worship of the state over the individual.

20 posted on 04/03/2009 9:10:12 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Obama - what you get when you mix Affirmative Action with the Peter Principle.)
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To: Earthdweller

“Neither do Islamistsic fundamentalists. You are correct, though.”
That’s ridiculous. Islamic extremists kill homosexuals...we just rebuke them and watch them parade around in SFS is silly get-ups.
- - - - - - - - - -

Islamists have “useful idiots” just as Hitler and Stalin had them.

Liberals are the useful idiots of Islamic extremism. Do the Islamists despise American liberals even more than they do American conservatives? Of course they do! You can’t imagine how much they hate Hollywood culture, and the loose morality, and feminism, etc. etc.

Yet they don’t mind the fact that liberals are hard at work undermining Western culture’s attempts to deal with terrorism and Islamic extremism. They don’t mind the fact that liberals are deciding that Western culture should “tolerate” shariah law.

It is insane that liberals and homosexuals would essentially support - by weakness and appeasement and “tolerance” - the Islamist agenda. But that is precisely what they are doing.


21 posted on 04/03/2009 9:11:31 AM PDT by Michael Eden (Better to starve free than be a fat slave. Semper Vigilanis)
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To: seatrout

Oh...so sorry, I thought you struck out Islam there entirely...my bad. Good you aren’t Rosie O’Donald. :)~


22 posted on 04/03/2009 9:11:52 AM PDT by Earthdweller (Socialism makes you feel better about oppressing people.....)
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To: Michael Eden

True.


23 posted on 04/03/2009 9:13:34 AM PDT by Earthdweller (Socialism makes you feel better about oppressing people.....)
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To: cripplecreek
Hitler had no problem using homosexuals to achieve his goals.

My understanding of the Nazi homosexual dealings is that the more masculine homosexuals were left alone, but men who were more effeminate were removed from society.

24 posted on 04/03/2009 9:14:17 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Obama - what you get when you mix Affirmative Action with the Peter Principle.)
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To: Earthdweller
No offense taken. As for being Rosie, well, I actually try to watch my weight. I do like girls though, does that make me a lesbian even though I'm a man? Seriously, though, I know a lot of people use the term "Islamist", but it's such a PC term that implies "oh those Muslims are a peaceful bunch if not for those darn 'Islamists' ".
25 posted on 04/03/2009 9:15:58 AM PDT by seatrout (I wouldn't know most "American Idol" winners if I tripped over them!)
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To: Michael Eden

Nice article, very informative.


26 posted on 04/03/2009 9:18:41 AM PDT by Chipper (You can't kill an Obamazombie by destroying the brain...they didn't have one to begin with.)
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To: Michael Eden

“Who will American fascism be intolerant of?”

Those that have been said to “cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”


27 posted on 04/03/2009 9:22:20 AM PDT by FreeSouthernAmerican (All we ask is to be let alone----Jefferson Davis)
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To: ken21

>>thanks to president zero

american businesses will be regulated from

brussels.<<

Won’t happen - all owners will be out of business. Private islands keep looking better and better, every day.


28 posted on 04/03/2009 9:22:21 AM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners.)
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To: Ozymandi
The fact that 31 million died on the Eastern Front does not mean that the ideaologies were not kissing cousins.

Fascism, Communism, and Socialism all put the state above the individual. All did away with dissenters and undesirables. Read Goldberg's book, it will explain why they are linked. It also very nicely summarizes why the war happened between these more alike than different ideologies.

29 posted on 04/03/2009 9:23:05 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Obama - what you get when you mix Affirmative Action with the Peter Principle.)
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To: IYAS9YAS

Hitler had no problem using homosexuals to achieve his goals.

My understanding of the Nazi homosexual dealings is that the more masculine homosexuals were left alone, but men who were more effeminate were removed from society.
- - - - - - - -

There was a great deal of “This is okay until we decide it isn’t okay anymore” with Hitler and the NAZIs.

For instance, they embraced avant garde art and the whole artsy-fartsy thing. Until they secured power. And then they went after anything that violated Hitler’s “aesthetics.”

And the NAZIs primary vehicle to power was angry labor unions. How do you think Hitler treated malcontent workers once HE became “the man”?

There were a lot of VERY suprised artists, homosexuals, and others who suddenly found themselves on the outs.

The History Channel program that documented the homosexuality of the SA pointed out that there was evidence linking Hitler himself to homosexuality. And that one of the reasons he purged the SA was to destroy the evidence/witnesses.

Ultimately, a lot of what was “in” and what was “out” depended on der Fuhrer’s mood.


30 posted on 04/03/2009 9:23:06 AM PDT by Michael Eden (Better to starve free than be a fat slave. Semper Vigilanis)
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To: Ozymandi

If you are referring to the Russians opposing the NAZI’s I see your point. I would point out though that a Cowboys fan and a Steelers fan both like football, just a different way of getting there.


31 posted on 04/03/2009 9:25:14 AM PDT by FreeSouthernAmerican (All we ask is to be let alone----Jefferson Davis)
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To: Ev Reeman
I said it before and I’ll keep saying it: “One small step for man, one giant goosestep for America!”

No comment: I just thought that was so damn funny I'd insert it again!

32 posted on 04/03/2009 9:26:23 AM PDT by Michael Eden (Better to starve free than be a fat slave. Semper Vigilanis)
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To: seatrout
real fascists—and real communists for that matter—wouldn’t tolerate this same-sex marriage nonsense like what just happened in Iowa. Maybe we are sinking into something worse.

There's a duality at work here. on one hand is the fascism that demands compliance of the sheeple to achieve the leftist, green Utopia.

But otoh, there is a zone of personal freedom that is allowed by the liberal fascists to pursue individual degradation (which behavior is contrary to Conservative tenets and mores), which we traditionally have come to know as "Sex, drugs and Rock and Roll".

It is now better or more accurately described as "gay sex, crack and rap".
33 posted on 04/03/2009 9:27:13 AM PDT by Canedawg (Conservatism is the antidote to tyranny- M. Levin)
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To: Michael Eden
Ultimately, a lot of what was “in” and what was “out” depended on der Fuhrer’s mood.

Yes. For that reason alone, I scoffed at my Political Science professor when he said his ideal form of government was a Benevolent Philosopher King with a willing army to back him.

Great, if your philosopher King is God, not so good when he is a human being. I told him I prefered the rule of law and the rights of the individual over the rule of any man.

While he may have been a flaming lefty, he certainly didn't take arguing with his philosophy personal. I got an A in his class.

34 posted on 04/03/2009 9:29:25 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Obama - what you get when you mix Affirmative Action with the Peter Principle.)
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To: Michael Eden

If Political Science were taught as follows....

Nationalist Socialists are Nazis.

Internationalist Socialists are Communists.

American Socialists are Democrats....

It would easily be understood by all and no further clarifications would be necessary.


35 posted on 04/03/2009 9:29:47 AM PDT by Welcome2thejungle
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To: Michael Eden
There was a great deal of “This is okay until we decide it isn’t okay anymore” with Hitler and the NAZIs.

They used Christianity as well but when it came down to it Hitler and the SS were far more interested in astrology and occult type stuff. Interestingly enough, Christianity proved to be made of stronger stuff than the NAZIs or communists.
36 posted on 04/03/2009 9:30:22 AM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: Ozymandi

Not to belie the Authors underlying point too badly, but this quote:

“First of all, socialism, communism and fascism are kissing cousins, intimately related to one another. “

Is painful to read as a history scholar and not even remotely accurate as 31 Million Dead on the WWII European Eastern Front will attest.

Let’s keep our argument to the facts please, they’re on our side. Now is not the time for our side to be producing sound-bytes which can be used to incorrectly paint the entire Conservative Movement as “Ignorant of History.” This quote certainly could qualify.
- - - - - - - - -

You couldn’t be more wrong.

Both fascism and communism were forms of socialism. That is simply a fact - and I documented that merely by defining the acronyms “USSR” and “NAZI.”

Fascism was a national-based form of socialism, and communsim was a class-based form of socialism. Much of the outworkings of both systems were identical to one another.

Jonah Goldberg’s book - as just one among many - show just how many similarities there were between the two forms of socialism, and how many liberals were sympathetic to both as a result.

The fact that Hitler turned on Stalin had FAR more to do with his view of Aryan domination (and the fact that he was insane) than it had to do with ideology.

And you should also ask yourself - given that you seem to think that the fact that they fought means they were entirely unrelated systems - why it is that when someone is murdered, the first people the police look at are the victim’s very own family members?

I stand by what I said.


37 posted on 04/03/2009 9:33:00 AM PDT by Michael Eden (Better to starve free than be a fat slave. Semper Vigilanis)
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To: cripplecreek
They used Christianity as well

In the beginning they did. However, Christianity was perverted by the Nazis (as it is today my many). The priests were basically told to toe the Nazi line or they'd be dealt with. Slowly the church was forced to turn from God to State (and even Hitler himself) as the object of worship.

38 posted on 04/03/2009 9:35:50 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Obama - what you get when you mix Affirmative Action with the Peter Principle.)
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To: NTHockey

it is happening.

it is the agreement made by obama in london.

re: fox news yesterday evening.


39 posted on 04/03/2009 9:38:10 AM PDT by ken21 (the only thing we have to fear is fdr deja vu.)
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To: Michael Eden

NAZI is not an acronym.


40 posted on 04/03/2009 9:38:12 AM PDT by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: Michael Eden

Tyranny for Breakfast.
Oppression for Lunch.
and
Injustice for Dinner.

This is the NEW American Dream.


41 posted on 04/03/2009 9:41:10 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: IYAS9YAS
Christianity was perverted by the Nazis (as it is today my many). The priests were basically told to toe the Nazi line or they'd be dealt with. Slowly the church was forced to turn from God to State (and even Hitler himself) as the object of worship.

Exactly. My grandfather spoke of german rank and file soldiers as being patriotic and religious men who unfortunately saw the party as being 3rd in line after God, and Jesus. It wasn't until you got into places that were strictly off limits to anyone outside the NAZI inner circle that you began to see distinctly anti Christian influences.
42 posted on 04/03/2009 9:42:08 AM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: Ozymandi

I thought I’d also say this, based on my study of history.

When Hitler attacked, Stalin was forced to drop the whole “Communist” thing and urge the people to fight for the “Motherland.”

And the Russian people didn’t hate the Germans because they were Nazis, but because they were Germans.

I recall reading a quote about Russian tank crews who had been trapped in fires and had their faces burned off. The author was very clear: the Russians were filled with hate - and couldn’t wait to get back to the front so they could kill “more Germans.”

Hitler’s attack and Russia’s counterattack was NOT about “fascism vs. communism.” It was about “Germany vs. Russia.”


43 posted on 04/03/2009 9:42:19 AM PDT by Michael Eden (Better to starve free than be a fat slave. Semper Vigilanis)
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To: FreeSouthernAmerican

>>“Who will American fascism be intolerant of?”
>
>Those that have been said to “cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

I think you may be right.


44 posted on 04/03/2009 9:43:25 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Petronski

NAZI is not an acronym.
- - - - - - -

NAZI: Acronym for the “National Socialist German Workers Party” or Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (N.S.A.D.P). Hitler joined this party on September 12 1919 and became its leader in 1921. The party was banned in 1923, but was re-established in February 1925 and took control of Germany in 1933. After Germany’s defeat in World War 2, the Nazi Party was declared illegal by the Allied powers.
source: http://www.holocaust.com.au/glossary.htm


45 posted on 04/03/2009 9:46:18 AM PDT by Michael Eden (Better to starve free than be a fat slave. Semper Vigilanis)
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To: seatrout

“All I know is that real fascists—and real communists for that matter—wouldn’t tolerate this same-sex marriage nonsense”

Actually, homosexuality is part-and-parcel of BOTH Nazism and Communism.

If you allow the people thier perversions, they acede to having other freedoms taken away from them.

In both Nazism and Soviet Communism, homosexuals only became pariahs AFTER the stromg-men took control, and was used as an excuse to remove them. Or worse.


46 posted on 04/03/2009 9:47:00 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: Michael Eden

It is merely a nickname based on the German pronunciation of the first four letters of Nationalsozialistische.


47 posted on 04/03/2009 9:48:13 AM PDT by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: Michael Eden

I’ve been posting this fact on here for almost two years and have been pelted with how wrong I was.

Well, it does my heart good to know that others are coming to the party, a bit late but the music is just starting.


48 posted on 04/03/2009 9:50:55 AM PDT by stockpirate (Welcome to fascist America.)
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To: Michael Eden
A lot of noise, signifying nothing. Look, it's really, really simple. The future of the country will be determined by the outcome of this economic downturn. That is, the market will be the final arbiter.

If the central government is successful in turning the economy around (which is highly doubtful, since it's never been achieved before by any command economy), then the US electorate will gladly embrace Hussein's policy initiatives and become a full-blown socialist state.

However, it is much more likely (I'd say 90%+) that the entire economic system will fail. It's easy to make this prediction, because the FIRE model (from which tax receipts and lending capability is based) is based on 3 things that require suspending the laws of math (ie exponents): ever appreciating assets, credit expansion & securitization.

In the case of system failure, not only will the crackhead's new initiatives not implemented, but the entire facade of the welfare state will collapse in its entirety.

So, as you can see, all we have to do is wait, watch & observe. The time for effecting political change is long past. (Simply because looters now outnumber producers - that is, the "tipping point" has been reached.) It is now time for the market (baseline human instincts) to determine our fate.

49 posted on 04/03/2009 9:52:14 AM PDT by semantic
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To: Michael Eden
And the NAZIs primary vehicle to power was angry labor unions.

Shirer would disagree with that point.

The Nazi/Hitler rise to power was due to the use of street violence (the SA) and alliances with the Army, the political elite, big business, and the junkers/agricultural estates (in that order).

Hitler paid only lip service to the labor unions and gave them the stiff arm by placing all authority with management to control wages and employment. In fact shortly after coming to power, Hitler abolished trade unions.

Long story short, attempts to clarify the political spectrum so as to link Hitler to socialism and communism is a silly exercise and there is a tremendous amount of disagreement with it among political scientists and historians. The NAZI party might have started out with many socialist components but Hitler is quite difficult to place on the spectrum. He was a malignant narcissistic monster who could and did move quite nimbly around the political spectrum when he thought it would gain him more power.

If Hitler had an ideology other than himself, it was German nationalism and antisemitism.

50 posted on 04/03/2009 9:53:11 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies ( "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." - Matthew 6:21)
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