Posted on 09/06/2009 3:26:34 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
QUESTION: What mistakes do you think most people make preparing for what you and your countrymen have gone through?
I wouldn’t call them “mistakes”, I don’t hold the SHTF Bible so all I can give is my humble advice which may be correct or not, so all I can tell you is “ I wouldn’t do that if I were you”, and depending on how sure I am , add a smartass grin smiley.
There’s simply some preparations that make little sense if you think about it, others that I’ve seen that just wouldn’t work, in spite of all the speculations.
a) Maybe the one that rubs me the wrong way the most concerns retreats. It’s also something many survivalists consider the summit of their preparations. A self sufficient fortification-ranch, with the nearest neighbor several miles away.
Isolated farms or retreats are targeted and are often victims of robbery and in some cases extremely violent home invasions. You may have 6-10 able men you are counting on to defend it when TSHTF… “when TSHTF” …so they aren’t there right now? Then you don’t have them, nor will you have them when you need them, most likely. The isolation works to the attackers favor, who often take their time having their way with everything and everyone inside the house.
The “away from everything” theory just doesn’t work when taken to the field. Happens here and same happens in Africa where ranchers and farmers have to fight rebels, rogues or whatever they are calling them these days.
They’ll find you, they’ll know about you one way or the other. You cant hide simply by living a gas tank away from the city. If there’s a road that reaches your place, you are fair game, doesn’t matter if it’s a dirt road in poor condition. You get there with a car/truck? So can bad guys.
You are obviously safer from small time robberies or pickpocketers and snatchers, but you are more vulnerable to the worst kind of criminals. Not that living in a city or suburbs makes it MUCH safer, but I’d rather live here where I live now than in a farm house any day of the week. People can somehow organize to hire security, talk to the police. Yes, most people border idiotic and are pretty clueless, but it’s better than being alone with no chance of even trying to convince people.
I’m not talking about living in a large city being the best option, I’m talking about living in a small town or community, looking for safety in numbers but avoiding the problems of a metropolis.
I definitely would choose a house in a small town or subdivision near a city, rather than a far away retreat. Rather than looking for the ultimate self reliance retreat in the middle of nowhere, look for a subdivision where you have enough land, where you can keep a small orchard and some small critters if you want, a place with a basement where you can build a NBC shelter as time and money allows. That’s what I’d look forward to if living in US.
b) The barter items thing is also pretty strange. I don’t see how it could possibly be a smart idea to buy goods to sell or trade after a crisis, surely not in the quantities suggested by some people. Beats me, are they going to set up a shop in their garages and sell everything? Would you buy food an other supplies from a guy that sells it with no possible way of verifying the conditions under which the food was kept? How much of a profit could you possibly make , comparing to having saved that same amount of money in gold, for example? I don’t understand it and I don’t know of anyone that made a profit by doing this. Yet, people stock up on TP and many other cheap, easily obtainable items thinking that it will be “worth it’s weight in gold” after the crisis. Newsflash: if it’s cheap and easy to produce, it will keep being that way AFTER tshtf.
Some guys advice to “invest” in such goods, tools, food and supplies for after TSHTF. No, no , no. 200 or 500 bucks worth of tools rusting away in the shed is not an investment. Its’ 200 bucks worth of tools for which you don’t have any use. That’s not an investment. An investment generates money, while products rotting away in some basement does nothing for you.
c) Forgetting about their financial security. I’d worry about REAL investments. Buying real estate that will provide me with a steady income on the longer run, an investment portfolio divided in a couple of reliable ( or as reliable as any organization can be) that will slowly grow, most of it set on minimum and medium risk investments, and not falling for the promises of high risk ones.
Money is so important, I can't begin to explain it. When prices skyrocket beyond the limits of superinflation, money does not turn into toilet paper as many survival experts predict, it become cherished, more valuable to you than ever. You have to turn yourself into a discriminating shopper, always looking for the best possible price, sometimes shopping in different branches of supermarkets so as to find the better deals and avoid those “hot” items grocery chains slip without you even noticing.
My father is visiting right now, handling business, and one thing he told me when I asked how did he see things going on here, he used the words “cheapskate” and “miserly”.
He said something like“ People count coins over and over, by the cent, and spend maybe 10 minutes thinking about spending every cent. They also look kind of shabby, untidy, I can’t explain it. Even the guys running around downtown with suits look bad”
I explained that his overall perception was indeed correct, mostly because the average person here uses clothes until they wear out, there’s not that much money left for looks, not getting haircuts as often as they should, shaving.
Yes, the fall on the purchasing power of people did affect the average person (at least most of them if not all) and you can see it on the streets.
d) Not all places are equal in terms of crime, but if something like this happens in US, I’d worry about being armed at all times, and learning how to use it to defend myself.
Again, not talking about waiting for the end of the world to bug in and pull the shotgun out of the firing ports, just go on with your life but do so armed.
Most people here don’t see things this way. The anti gun campaign is very strong here, and the majority of “sheep” see guns as evil objects, even though rape, crime and violence is smeared on their face every day. What can I say, most people are pretty stupid.
Those of us who go armed in this country are a reduced minority. After a few words, we recognize each other at the range or at gunshops with a knowing nod, knowing that most people, even among shooters , don’t share our opinions.
Even among “gun people” we have our important share of “Zumbos”, elitist hunters who think that firearms are hunting tools and shouldn’t be used by the lesser “civilians” for self defense.
e)Not trying to bore anyone to death here or anything, but going back to the issue of money. It’s so important to be financially set. Rather than spending tons of money on junk you wont ever use invest it smartly. Rich, unprepared people will suffer after TSHF… only in your wildest dreams. Money buys everything, including expensive food, medical care, security and relocation if needed.
When the economy collapses a big chunk of what used to be middle class (50% as minimum, more for sure) ends up being poor. It doesn’t matter how much guns you have, doesn’t matter if you can start a fire with a couple popsicles sticks or build an atomic bomb with a Snickers bar and a paper clip. Skills are of course important but you finances affect everything.
If you are middle class do everything you can to improve, climb way up the ladder. No I’m not talking about making more money than Bill Gates, I’m just talking about something every determined middle class person can achieve , no need to be a freaking financial genius. Make sure you climb your way up to the upper middle class, because once the pyramid starts sinking you don’t want to be below the 50%.
If you are really serious about financial security, diversify your real estate and other investments in different countries. My father did this and it made all the difference in the world. The man is my hero.
When you see serious trouble in the horizon and survivalists are thinking about bunkering in their cabins, you simply go on vacations to check out that little apartment or house you bought in Costa Rica for a bunch of pocket change a month. If Zombies take over or China invades, you can look for a job there, or live like a king thanks to the income you receive from that other apartment you have in France, a place in a small town near a major University, which you rent to students each year. 600 Euros a month will allow you to live comfortably in Costa Rica, and most countries in South America. And the best part of all this? If nothing EVER happens you just have a few properties here and there that are constantly generating money for you, in case you want to retire early or if you ever have a health problem or any other issue that puts you out of the job market. Again, a couple of properties here and there isn't such a big deal, most people can achieve that with a bit of effort, it's just a matter of priorities.
f)The lack of reality based preparations. Some people focus on preparing for something that will never happen, preparing for getting up one day and walking into Mad Max’s world. This is of course, not a smart idea. Not only are you forgetting about the other, more likely possibilities, but you also ignore that you’ll have to go through them before it reaches to a road warrior point, if it ever gets to that.
People that have thousands and thousands of dollars in tools, equipment, and maybe spent hundreds of thousands more building the ultimate retreat, but don’t have a penny invested anywhere. When asked they‘ll say that it will all be worth nothing when TSHTF.
Hopefully, this person will have several years worth of food along with all the other stuff he’ll rarely get to use, so at least he wont starve to death. But is eating all you aspire for in live? Not to mention what would happen if he got sick/robbed/place burns to the ground/hurricane/flood destroys it and suddenly needs the money he said he would never need.
Prepare for a broad spectrum of possibilities. So you’ll have your food and supplies for short and medium periods of time where supermarkets may be closed due to looting, riots, lack of supply , etc and you have others plans in case things get worse or you are forced to get out of there.
Something like what happened here happening in US? Don’t go nuts, shooting the neighbor’s kid for crossing over to your yard to pick up his frizbee. Just adjust to the situation.
Once the first few weeks are over and people start calming down, just be more careful out there, don’t throw away money on stuff you don’t need and try to keep a generally low profile. It’s also important to do well at work, because people get fired like crazy during those times, companies trying to reduce expenses or not needing you any more for lack of production.
During these times is when your investments kick in. Not only do you have a place to exile to if things don’t go back to normal or they don’t fit what you expect in life anymore, you also have a form of income that is out of the circle of your local economy. Let’s say the dollar looses ½ it’s value, you still have your apartment in France or wherever the heck you want to invest, pumping in Euros that are now much more valuable, probably compensating for the local inflation, so whether you decide to leave or stay, you have the means to go either way.
Well, I’m not saying it’s impossible - just not as good a choice as people might think.
You sound well prepared, good for you!
Under some scenarios being ready to go “in the morning” might work. Under others, it won’t work at all, you wouldn’t be able to get anywheres close to the airport.
So, who knows? I got a boatload of beans and rice, so I’ll just do the best I can!
(assuming that the airports are open - who flew anywhere on 9/12/01?)
All financial accounts are online and accessible from anywhere in the world as easily as from right here at my desk.
(assuming that the grid is up and that the Feds haven't taken control of the net)
I read somewhere that the reason many Jews didn’t try to leave France, Poland, or wherever when the persecution began in WWII was because they didn’t have passports or other required documents. Making sure each member of my family has a passport is at the top of my To Do list.
>>> I got a boatload of beans and rice, so I’ll just do the best I can! <<<<<
A place abroad is responding to one contingency, not all contingencies.
Online accounts are convenient and also responsive to another kind of contingency.
And so is a case of canned tuna, 72 liters of bottled water, propane, candles, lithium batteries, and 10 kg of rice.
I need to get more Chicken of the Sea sardines.
Best sardines I ever et!!
Kinda hard to find, though.
See above #21.
Remember how those who heeded the warnings had greatly reduced their losses? It's about paying attention and acting before it's too late.
If you wait until martial law is declared, then you waited too long. Even to "bug out" inside the US. Travel restrictions across the nation make it hard to travel to your retreat, no? And power restrictions, etc.
Me, I'll just pay attention, and if things are looking particularly bad, I'll make sure I'm overseas on a vacation or business so if something does go down, I'm not having to chase those last-minute airplane tickets.
It’s not like you would have six weeks to get your passport in order and arrange for some nice neighbors to watch you place and go to the drugstore to stock up on suntan lotion or something...
For two of the three locales I listed (Thailand and Philippines), you need only your passport; no visa needed. For the third (China), you can get a visa in literally 4 days (the turnaround time for my annual visa). I keep it "topped up" to be active all the time. Chile is also wonderful, and a place I lived for a few years (Vina del Mar, just North of Valparaiso, right on the beach). Just a once-per-passport (meaning once every 10 years) $100 entry "fee" payable when you land.
Get your passport. Get a visa (if needed; few places require it, and most can give it to you at the point of entry to their country). Then what's the 6 weeks for? You can go tomorrow. No need to file travel plans, no need to wait for papers. Just pick up and go.
Oh, and you can find suntan lotion in most countries...:) The local Pharmacist usually has local brands as well as the bigger US brands (J&J, etc).
Having someone watch my place - if the SHTF, I really don't plan to come back for a LONG time. Why should I care if my plants are watered? In fact, I'd tell my neighbors I'm leaving, give them the keys to the place, and tell them "take what you need, and God be with you!".
Yes, it's an asset I would hate to lose; however, it would be a small price to pay to not have to worry about defending it against bad guys or the Government 24/7, or living through a SHTF scenario. I'd rather bug out on a nice, quiet rubber tree and pineapple farm in Thailand, or a beachfront Internet shop in the Philippines or be an part-time English teacher in Shanghai than dodge goons and bullets 24/7.
The biggest issue would be getting on a plane and leaving, and that's more of an issue of scheduling and price. If the worst was coming, I would tell people to simply go to Canada then schedule your flight from there. International travel really does exist outside of the US.
That's my plan, if I'm in the US. Head to Canada (it's a 2 hour drive), then head out from there. I have firepower to get me to the border without worry, and my truck is never less than 3/4 empty (plenty of fuel to get to any one of a dozen border crossings). No need for clothes or other goods (those are also available overseas, for usually a lot less money, even tailored clothes). Just me, my loved ones, and the resources needed to get to the border.
Then to book tickets on the first plane from Vancouver, BC to Asia - anywhere in Asia. And from there, wherever I need to go.
Funny thing about that whole deal.
Years ago, I got this feeling I should start stocking up, so I went to the supermarket and spent 100 bucks or so. Pasta, spagetti sauce, vegetable oil, that kinda stuff.
One week later - one week - two planes crashed into the World Trade centers.
True story! I kid you not.
Lately, I’ve gotten alot smarter about what I have in stock, (including always letting some of my garden go to seed, so I have tons of seeds), water, some med supplies, so I’m good for a while.
The ability to procure food and protect same would be #1 in any situation. Real property will continue to have real value. Money however is only as good as the financial system. There are plenty of historical examples of money becoming worthless.
Ten miles outside of a metropolitan cent might not offer much, but 200 miles does. If the SHTF, as he put it, predators have to think protection as well, and in such an environment strangers draw fire. Additionally, as families congregate, it won't be a matter of deserted farmhouse, but rather 20-30 people per group, with mutually supporting groups. Not impenetrable for sure, but also not easy pickings. There is a reason that coyotes don't directly attack cows, the risk of injury out ways the likelihood of success.
Seems like the bottom line is that there's no guarantee you'll survive any collapse or attack from inside or out. Best you can hope and pray for is to be able to survive most of the different scenarios, including the one in which nothing ever happens: while you're alive, enjoy life in this great country, and keep faith in its people and its soldiers and your childern - that it will endure.
You’re going to be better off where ever your support network is, whether that’s family, friends, your church, likeminded coworkers or some other affinity network. Most likely in situ, in other words.
If that happens to be a major metro, think Katrina, think of those pockets of neighbors banding together to defend their neighborhoods or even a few blocks of a neighborhood.
It’ll be worst at first, settle down after a few weeks to a few months, and then there will be the chronic crime and home invasions, due to people who are prone to such behavior anyway, emboldened by the general breakdown. Think of looting rioters, diffused and spread out.
Cash on hand, at least enough to cover a couple months’ living expenses. Nonperishable food, the same but up to a year’s worth is not a bad idea. What will inflate wildly will be the necessary things, and the imported things. What will be nearly worthless are the status symbols that add no utility but do add a lot of maintenance cost, expensive cars, that sort of thing. They’ll make you a target, too.
The ability to defend yourself, not just in your home but out and about on your business, will be important. No point in going completely nuts and setting up a private armory, but even current scarcity argues for more rather than less, as far as ammunition goes.
The world won’t just grind to a complete halt. I suspect it’ll be rather strange, with pockets of seemingly complete normalcy, and pockets of Mad Max, with flare ups and calm periods over time.
These are my thoughts on the matter. I considered the rural place with surface water, backup power, solar panels, etcetera, but honestly you’re going to be a sitting duck. Being the descendant of people who lived through the Civil War in the south, and it’s aftermath during Reconstruction, I’ve heard the old family stories about outliers and such, so there will be feral elements looking to prey on you if they can. Safety in numbers.
...with pockets of seemingly complete normalcy, and pockets of Mad Max, with flare ups and calm periods over time.
Precisely!
And there will be people who today we might not think are superstars who gird up their loins and turn out to have talents that actually save lives. Meanwhile, some bank executive or attorney or whatever ends up being more of a pain than ever, and proves to have not a single useful talent whatever.
That’s another thing that I disagreed with the main article about - tools.
I fix things as a hobby and to learn how to do it. If I needed to do it for a living, I could give it a halfway decent shot.
And the ability to repair stuff and find useful results from things we take for granted would be priceless.
Assuming there is any fuel to transport the raw materials (do you know where they come from?) to the factory(do you know where it is?), and then the finished product to you. Also assuming the roads aren't full of "highwaymen", hijacking what loads that fuel can be found for.
Then there are all the required financial transactions required to make all that happen.
Cash is just paper without a government that people trust to back it. Gold, silver, those are more likely to retain their value, in terms of loaves of bread and such. But there are other things which are also pretty easy to store, will also retain, or increase, their value. .22 rimfire ammunition for instance. But also wire, tools, etc. In a SHTF situation, most of our "work skills" are quite likely to no longer be in demand. Perhaps a good hobby skill would be worth investing the time to acquire?
That’s the conventional wisdom. But, I do know Confederate money “spent” with inflation, even after the war ended. It took a while to let go, and to accept that it was literally worthless. People just have a hard time letting go. Modern day, Zimbabwe is a prime example. They can’t get people to stop accepting and using “Zim Dollars,” even though it’s not even their currency anymore.
Just how are you going to get fair value for a gold coin worth considerably more under any collapse scenario than it is now, at the grocery store? You won’t, most likely. Just how is a cashier at that grocery, going to determine that the coin you’re offering, actually is what you purport it to be?
If a person were to dwell on the “possible” scenarios for a collapse of our society, it could certainly cause enough anxiety to make them do stupid things. I agree with enjoying life regardless of the circumstances, and I would add the we need to be educating our leftist neighbors through acts of kindness interspersed with tidbits of information. Our faith needs to be in Christ alone since all of those other entities will let you down in the end, including your children!
I can certainly see the point about getting out of the country, but what about re-building and protecting against the inevitable tyranny? I fear we have already lost the better part of a generation who understand and believe in the Constitution. If the SHTF, we will need you all.
Better to retreat and live to fight another day than die in a wasted effort.
If the SHTF, I think the best thing to do is let it flare itself out to a dull roar, then start fresh after the reality of the situation sets in.
Sun Tzu has many good words about when to engage the enemy, and it’s not a good time to do so when you don’t know their strength, don’t know the terrain, and don’t know the support of the populace. That’s a losing hand every time.
Nobody know squat about using gold/silver as real currency. It’s been culled from socioeconomic consciousness. Seriously: some guy offfers you a gold-colored coin for an alternator, do you know what it is? what it’s worth?
One thing that people forget is that they will need other people. A close knit group is nice but just being part of a community will work.
Get to know those around you.
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