Why Shouldn’t Illegals Get Government Healthcare?

The Stiletto Blog ^ | September 18, 2009 | The Stiletto

[theothercheek]

In response to Rep. Joe Wilson’s (R-SC) question about whether illegal aliens will be eligible for taxpayer-subsidized health insurance coverage under Dem healthcare “reform” proposals, liberals have answered, “Why shouldn’t they be?”

[NOTE: It is a copyright violation to copy and paste this entire post. Please click on the link to read the rest.]

[dalereed]

Your personal crap has copyrighted?

[FlingWingFlyer]

I can understand the Commie libs’ point. Without lots of “poverty” and illegal aliens in need of “free” healthcare, DemocRATS can’t get elected!!!

[screaminsunshine]

ONLY illegals should get government healthcare. Government healthcare itself is illegal and unconstitutional.

[joejm65]

“Why shouldn’t they be?”

Because I don’t want to pay for it. That’s why.

[pnh102]

Illegals can go to their home countries and receive government health care from their own governments.

If it was up to me, any one entering an ER with no means to pay would have their immigration status verified, this can even be done after life saving emergency care is provided. Anyone found to be here illegally would get nothing more than this such care, and then be subsequently deported.

[muawiyah]

Under he current treaties and laws regarding copyright EVERYTHING you write is copyrighted to you ~ just assert your right.

[hinckley buzzard]

It is a copyright violation to copy and paste this entire post. Please click on the link to read the rest.]

Nah. I don't think so. Why bother.

[pnh102]

Because I don’t want to pay for it. That’s why.

It is sickening how the level of generosity of liberals with our money literally knows no end. If they wanted any sort of credibility in this debate, they would pony up their own cash to pay for all the health care for illegals that they wanted.

[muawiyah]

Actually, we can go further. We, the United States of America, can send them a bill for the services on their citizens. Then, if they don't apy, we can bomb their principal cities or sink their ships.

Bet we'd only need to do that once.

France doesn't let anyone in without pre-arranged medical insurance. That's one of the reasons all those Africans and other illegals were over there at the Chunnel trying to hitch a ride to UK where they just give it away to anyone.

[omega4179]

Exactly, government programs should be funded voluntarily by their supporters. Like a la cart cable, half the cable channels would close overnight including msnbc.

[pnh102]

Exactly, government programs should be funded voluntarily by their supporters.

Since providing health care is not guaranteed as a right in the US Constitution, nor is it listed as a function of the federal government, such a thing should not be a government program. There is nothing stopping liberals who want to provide health care to illegals from doing so outside of the scope of the government.

[skeeter]

Because... they haven’t pay for it like the rest of us have?

[pnh102]

France doesn't let anyone in without pre-arranged medical insurance.

Very smart indeed.

[GeronL]

cuz they not be citizens. Unless their home countries want to pay for it.

[rolling_stone]

Why should taxpaers pay for health care for legal immigrants? They are supposed to have a sponsor and be self supporting. Is that in the trash under Obie too?

[Ev Reeman]

Why shouldn’t illegals get healthcare:

1. THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES. THEY ARE NOT AMERICAN CITIZENS, THEY ARE MEXICAN NATIONALS FOR THEM OST PART.

2. OUR COUNTRY IS BROKE AND WE CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY MONEY OR BENEFITS TO PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY AND WHO ARE NOT CITIZENS.

3. GOVERNMENT SOCIAL ENTITLEMENT AND WELFARE PROGRAMS ARE ALREADY GOING BROKE AND BANKRUPT. WE DO NOT NEED ANY MORE OF THEM.

[Gaffer]

“We has copyrighted!”

[charmedone]

“Your personal crap has copyrighted?”

Matter of fact, yes!

[omega4179]

Liberals would retort that congress is empowered under “general welfare” that is, things which benefit everyone. We need to really know the context that “general welfare” was placed in their powers.

[Man50D]

The socialists are really saying is we want a dependent class of people who will vote for socialists in upcoming elections.

[RummyChick]

why? so you can get advertising dollars?

I am sick of people promoting their person blogs on this site.

As to the point, Judge napolitano said it will be unconstitutional not to give them health care once this has passed...and that Obama should know that.

[Man50D]

Liberals would retort that congress is empowered under “general welfare” that is, things which benefit everyone. We need to really know the context that “general welfare” was placed in their powers.

We need to focus on the existing immigration laws such as those below.

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act

Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii) Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens Enforcement RICO —Citizen Recourse Tax Crimes Comment

Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii) "Any person who . . . encourages or induces an illegal alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each illegal alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

· assists an illegal alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or · encourages that illegal alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or · knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions. ·

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens

It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an illegal alien for a fee, knowing the illegal alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an illegal alien knowing that the illegal alien is unauthorized to work.

It is unlawful to hire any individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with three days' advance notice, the forms must be made available for inspection. Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home. "Day laborers" or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law. An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verification of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the illegal alien labor.

The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements. If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.

An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts. Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer's work force. Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual's accent or foreign appearance.

Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.

It is illegal for nonprofit or religious organizations to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, regardless of claims that their convictions require them to assist illegal aliens. Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.

Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens

It is a violation of law for any person to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection in any place, including any building or means of transportation, any illegal alien who is in the United States in violation of law. Harboring means any conduct that tends to substantially facilitate an alien to remain in the U.S. illegally. The sheltering need not be clandestine, and harboring covers aliens arrested outdoors, as well as in a building. This provision includes harboring an alien who entered the U.S. legally but has since lost his legal status.

An employer can be convicted of the felony of harboring illegal aliens who are his employees if he takes actions in reckless disregard of their illegal status, such as ordering them to obtain false documents, altering records, obstructing INS inspections, or taking other actions that facilitate the alien's illegal employment. Any person who within any 12-month period hires ten or more individuals with actual knowledge that they are illegal aliens or unauthorized workers is guilty of felony harboring. It is also a felony to encourage or induce an alien to come to or reside in the U.S. knowing or recklessly disregarding the fact that the alien's entry or residence is in violation of the law. This crime applies to any person, rather than just employers of illegal aliens. Courts have ruled that "encouraging" includes counseling illegal aliens to continue working in the U.S. or assisting them to complete applications with false statements or obvious errors. The fact that the alien is a refugee fleeing persecution is not a defense to this felony, since U.S. law and the UN Protocol on Refugees both require that a refugee must report to immigration authorities without delay upon entry to the U.S.

The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years' imprisonment. Where the crime causes serious bodily injury or places the life of any person in jeopardy, the penalty is a fine and up to twenty years' imprisonment. If the criminal smuggling or harboring results in the death of any person, the penalty can include life imprisonment. Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties. Courts can impose consecutive prison sentences for each alien smuggled or harbored. A court may order a convicted smuggler to pay restitution if the illegal alien smuggled qualifies as a victim under the Victim and Witness Protection Act. Conspiracy to commit crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years' imprisonment.

Enforcement

A person or entity having knowledge of a violation or potential violation of employer sanctions provisions may submit a signed written complaint to the INS office with jurisdiction over the business or residence of the potential violator, whether an employer, employee, or agent. The complaint must include the names and addresses of both the complainant and the violator, and detailed factual allegations, including date, time, and place of the potential violation, and the specific conduct alleged to be a violation of employer sanctions. By regulation, the INS will only investigate third-party complaints that have a reasonable probability of validity. Designated INS officers and employees, and all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws, may make an arrest for violation of smuggling or harboring illegal aliens.

State and local law enforcement officials have the general power to investigate and arrest violators of federal immigration statutes without prior INS knowledge or approval, as long as they are authorized to do so by state law. There is no extant federal limitation on this authority. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to encourage states and local agencies to participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws. Immigration officers and local law enforcement officers may detain an individual for a brief warrantless interrogation where circumstances create a reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship; and presence in an area known to contain a concentration of illegal aliens. Hispanic appearance alone is not sufficient. Immigration officers and police must have a valid warrant or valid employer's consent to enter workplaces or residences. Any vehicle used to transport or harbor illegal aliens, or used as a substantial part of an activity that encourages illegal aliens to come to or reside in the U.S. may be seized by an immigration officer and is subject to forfeiture. The forfeiture power covers any conveyances used within the U.S.

RICO —Citizen Recourse

Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, and can include nonprofit associations.

Tax Crimes

Employers who aid or abet the preparation of false tax returns by failing to pay income or Social Security taxes for illegal alien employees, or who knowingly make payments using false names or Social Security numbers, are subject to IRS criminal and civil sanctions. U.S. nationals who have suffered intentional discrimination because of citizenship or national origin by an employer with more than three employees may file a complaint within 180 days of the discriminatory act with the Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices, U.S. Department of Justice. In addition to the federal statutes summarized, state laws and local ordinances controlling fair labor practices, workers compensation, zoning, safe housing and rental property, nuisance, licensing, street vending, and solicitations by contractors may also apply to activities that involve illegal aliens.

Comment:

A comment and a published quote by Robert Gaffney, Attorney and County Executive of Suffolk County, LI, NY:

The statutory foundation of United States immigration law has always been the jurisdiction of the federal government, Congress and the federal courts. The preeminent laws concerning the employment of illegal aliens are found in the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. §~ 1101-1503), as amended by the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 CIRCA).

The law states it is a crime to assist an illegal alien who lacks employment authorization by referring him to an employer, or by acting as his or her employer, or as an agent for an employer. 8 U.S.C.S. § 1324a(a)(1)(A) (Lexis 1997). Furthermore, it is unlawful to hire an individual for employment without complying with the employment eligibility requirements for every person hired. 8 U.S.C.S. § 1324a(a)(l)(B) (Lexis 1997). Moreover, conduct tending substantially to facilitate illegal aliens remaining in the United States illegally, where there is knowledge or a reckless disregard of an illegal alien s unlawful status, is a crime, with escalating penalties, encompassed within the provisions of 1324. 8 U.S.C.S. § 1324(a)(l)(A)(iii) (Lexis 1997); United States v. Kim. 193 F-3d 567 (2d Cir. 1999), are considered employees for purposes of immigration law.

[Inkie]

If they’re here, I suppose they have to be treated if they are ill. After all, the rest of us don’t want their TB, polio, chagas and all the other nasty third-world things they drag across the border.

My beef is that they get it all for free, when they have plenty of money. They send billions home to their families each year. This money is untaxed, leaving us taxpayers to foot the bill, not to mention stealing away services that we taxpayers are happy to pay for FOR OUR OWN CITIZENS WHO HAPPEN TO BE POOR, not for illegal freeloaders.

[Joan Kerrey]

Why Shouldn’t Illegals Get Government Healthcare? ----------------------- Why shouldn't every illegal in the city be invited to your childs birthday party every year? Why shouldn't every illegal in your neighborhood be offered dinner at your house every night? Why shouldn't you be required to offer sleeping space in your garage for all in need of a place to sleep? Why shouldn't all of us be required to support illegals in food, housing, healthcare, heat, light and power? Why stop at just medical care for illegals. Why not ensure that they have everything a typical working class person has? Why require anyone to work? When will this crap end?

[meyer]

Why should I have to work? Why can’t I have the same stuff that productive citizens have? Why do I have to earn? Why can’t the government just steal from those evil, ambitious folks and give it to me?

/Sarc...

[RebelYell1990]

I don’t think American citizens should get government healthcare, even if their ancestors came over on the Mayflower; so it is totally absurd to give it to illegals. They already drain hospitals at the state level and have caused several hospital closures, all this will do is drain national health insurance.

[indylindy]

We could treat them and send the bill to the country from whence they came.

[meyer]

Why Shouldn’t Illegals Get Government Healthcare?

Citizens shouldn't get government health care. Why should illegals? We can't afford to carry our own homegrown deadwood. Why should we carry someone else's?

[Ev Reeman]

That part of the Constitution says “promote the general welfare” not “demand the general welfare” or “mandate the general welfare” or “force the general welfare”.

[dalereed]

Damn good reason to not click on it and read it!!

[marron]

Joe Wilson’s challenge was to the lie. There is no way in the world we would have universal government health care and not cover illegals. We don’t have it now, and illegals are still covered. It would never happen that an illegal would be turned away at a hospital.

So it was an obvious lie for Obama to claim otherwise, and Wilson called him on it.

Even if they put specific language in the bill denying health coverage to illegals, I can promise you it would last only until the first court challenge and then they will be in. So, Obama lied. If you believe in government health care, and you want illegals covered, then admit it and stop lying about it.

(not you, obviously, the writer and the thinking he represents)

[omega4179]

To me that means if they can allow a railroad or interstate to be built they must do so. They also must allow the water to be sent to the farmers that benefit all!

[CharlesWayneCT]

I guess. DO what I do when people do this —just read the excerpt, and just comment on the excerpt.

You can even comment about how the thought seems so incomplete.

After all, when I excerpt, I always pick the best 300 words that get the idea across. So I presume that this is the best few words from the blog entry.

At least they didn’t ask people to comment at the blog instead of here.

[RebelYell1990]

Congress promotes the General Welfare by sticking to the powers appropriated to them in Article 1 Section 8 of our Constitution.

[reg45]

How about a simple reciprocity agreement. We will offer free health care to the citizens of any country who are in the United States illegally, if and only if free health care is granted to United States citizens who are in the other country illegally.

[Lancey Howard]

I am sick of people promoting their person blogs on this site.

It doesn't even make sense to HAVE a personal blog. Over the years I have written a few sorta lengthy articles and posted them... right here at Free Republic. Guess what? A week or two later I see that my articles got over 10,000 "views". Guaranteed I would never approach that kind of exposure if I had my own personal blog and posted my stuff there.

What on earth would I need a personal blog for, anyway? It's like the ultimate vanity.

[AuntB]

“How about a simple reciprocity agreement. We will offer free health care to the citizens of any country who are in the United States illegally, if and only if free health care is granted to United States citizens who are in the other country illegally.”

Their citizens are leaving for better healthcare here...and WE would never get treated there...here’s Mexico’s:

Mexico’s healthcare: quality and access vary dramatically depending on the Mexican state. Mexico spends 6.2% of its GDP on health care, about $97B, compared to 16% of GDP spent in the US.....works out to $527 per person a year compared to 7,290 in the US. There is one doctor to every 500 people in Mexico compared to one to 416 in the US. Just under 1/2 of Mexicans are expected to be covered under the “people’s insurance plan” put in place in 2004. An employer based system currently serves 40% of the population that makes up the working class. Less than 5% pay for private health care. 1/5 of Mexicans, the poorest, are exempt from paying for health insurance. After that one pays according to income. State and federal governments also contribute. Govt workers have their own plan.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2342887/posts?page=27#27

[AntiqueTeapots]

I don’t which is worse - Paying for illegal’s healthcare or suffering the diseases that will spread if we don’t.

[autumnraine]

Because they shouldn’t be here. If they are here to get healthcare coverage, they should be in the process to being deported. Otherwise why bother having citizenship or VISA’s in the first place?

[theothercheek]

The “Bloggers and Personal” channel is for this purpose. Liberals promote their bloggers via Huffington Post, Daily Koz and other sites. By not allowing bloggers to expose their work to a larger audience, you keep up-and-coming conservative voices from building a following. Counter-productive, since the other side is doing the exact opposite.

[theothercheek]

Anyone who “bothered” to click on the link to read the rest of the post, unlike hinckley buzzard, knows that all this will soon be moot. Obama was not lying when he said illegals won’t be covered under a Dem healthcare reform bill - but the reason for that is not in the bill that Baucus and other legislators are hammering out. It’s in a bill that has yet to be written then passed without anyone reading it.

[theothercheek]

It’s funny how the Democrat coalition - labor unions, blacks, Hispanics - haven’t figured out that illegals drive down wages, take jobs away from unskilled Americans and allow employers to circumvent all the safety and wage/hour regulations that unions fought for years to establish. Dems are always talking about blue collar workers “voting against their own interests” when they vote for Repubs. How much more against your own interest can be be in voting for a party that wants illegals to have the same opportunities and benefits of citizenship that you do - and for free!

[theothercheek]

Suit yourself.

[RebelYell1990]

I mean, you learn this in a beginners’ economics class, this is basic high school economics. The larger the supply of labor, the more the cost of labor goes down, since they are competing for the same amount of jobs. Then again, most politicians on the hill never took anything but a political science class and know very little about economics.

[RummyChick]

How about you post the whole article..then if people think you have merit they can click your blog.

This is about getting dollars in your pocket. I refuse to click it..but I bet you have advertising there.

[mjp]

Why shouldn't illegals get government healthcare?

2 principles:

1)needs of some are not a justification for use of force to violate the rights of others
2)the ends do not justify the means

[behzinlea]

They can seek government health care in their country of citizenship.

[theothercheek]

The blog has no advertising, unless you count a handful of Google ads you have to click on. If you don’t want to click on the ads you don’t have to). This is about building an audience and introducing Webby-recognized work to an audience that is politically in sync. If you get that chip off your shoulder you might actually enjoy the blog. And BTW, the posts quote from newspaper articles and columns so there are copyright issues in just cutting and pasting in in toto.

[theothercheek]

Basic CAPITALIST economics. Obama is a Marxist - and he didn’t do much to hide his worldview during the election campaign knowing that the MSM had its hands over its ears and was humming as loud as possible so as not to overhear something inconvenient by accident.