DoH Reverses Course – Releases Index Data For President Obama, Stanley Ann and Barack, Sr

Natural Born Citizen ^ | October 2, 2009 | Leo Donofrio

[RummyChick]

YOu don’t have to have Kenyan officials stipulate to that fact. Have you actually read the UK law???????????

I don’t care if you believe this concept in the law or not. But any lawyer who refuses to address this should be sued for malpractice in my opinion if they don’t tell their client it is an issue before signing them up IF they are using the argument that Jr’s citizenship is the deciding factor.

[RummyChick]

Believe whatever you want...

[RummyChick]

British subject is not the same thing as British citizen...during certain times in history and at other times it was the same or similar. I don’t remember what the case was back during the 60’s. At this time there will be no more British Subjects once the current ones are dead.

Yes, the UK citizenship discussion turns on whether you are using his father’s citizenship or his citizenship in your argument.

[BP2]

If not even a marriage certificate lists “bride” and “groom” and these labels are not found anywhere on a Hawaiian birth certificate, then I don't know what Fukino is trying to communicate.

I've seen some state marriage APPLICATIONS and CERTIFICATES that say "bride" and "groom", but now in the day of gay marriage, it normally says “party” or is blank.

We really would need to see a marriage certificate from Hawaii 1960s to determine what would have been the norm.

Fukino has NOT been helpful in this whole ordeal - I can't see why she'd suddenly start. I DO see her trying to “help” Obama by adding that there was a “Bride” and “Groom”, trying to bolster her proclamation to the world that he is a “natural born American citizen.”

I'm thinking of several possibilities:

- Ann Dunham and Barack SR applied for a marriage LICENSE when she discovered she was pregnant (circa Dec 60 - Feb 61), but never followed through with it, perhaps after she found out that Obama SR was married back in Kenya. To avoid having a "fatherless" bastard child, she filed what she had when Obama was born with the state up to a year after birth as state law allows - ergo, bride/groom ... vs husband/wife or mother/father

- the marriage did NOT take place in Hawaii, which is why no record can be found in Hawaii . In lieu of a Hawaii Marriage Certificate, I can see a Clerk in the 1960s accepting a signed affidavit that she could have forged with Obama SR's name as proof of marriage. That same document could have been used for the 1964 divorce, and later if she applied for Welfare, as she chose not to request child support in the both the '64 and '80 Divorce filings.

- an adoption or name change, where the Marriage Certificate/Application/Affidavit is sealed with the rest of the trial paperwork with the Hawaii Family Court. Obama JR could have been born Barack Hussein Dunham or something similar. If there was an associated name change to Barrack Hussein Obama II, all of those records would be sealed as Statute and Hawaii Family Court Rules require.

- and many other variations.

An important note:
IF the Dept of Health is NOW so forthcoming with Birth Record INDEX data via UIPA requests, perhaps we should make some more requests - starting with the Nordyke twins to see if their Birth Record INDEX says they have a “bride” and “groom” vs. a "mother and father" (MY bet is on the latter):

Name	Location of Birth	Birth Cert #	Date/Time Born
Barack Hussein Obama II	Kapiolani Medical Center	151-61-10641	Aug. 4, 1961 7:24 pm
Susan Elizabeth Nordyke	Kapiolani Medical Center	151-61-10637	Aug. 5, 1961 2:12 pm
Gretchen Carter Nordyke	Kapiolani Medical Center	151-61-10638	Aug. 5, 1961 2:17 pm

Name	Location of Birth	Birth Cert #	Date/Time Born
Barack Hussein Obama II	Kapiolani Medical Center	151-61-10641	Aug. 4, 1961 7:24 pm
Susan Elizabeth Nordyke	Kapiolani Medical Center	151-61-10637	Aug. 5, 1961 2:12 pm
Gretchen Carter Nordyke	Kapiolani Medical Center	151-61-10638	Aug. 5, 1961 2:17 pm

[RummyChick]

I doubt they went through the registration proceedings that would include proving paternity.

If they did go through the registration proceedings..then they probably lied through that as well.

I am one of the ones that believe the family was involved with the Spooks. So it is possible that Obama had multiple passports.....Certainly what went on with Lolo doesn’t make much sense...Ann was a Communist and from a Communist family and she married a Man who was sent to the US under a Communist sympathizer..but when he returned to Indonesia they were involved in a bloody war helped along by the CIA so that there would be an Anti Communist ruler. They tortured people for years trying to rout out the communists.

It is possible that Sr got the marriage license and never really got married. Sr knew he was already married. If you notice, he did not marry his third wife in the US. She went to Africa to get married.

[RummyChick]

Yes, at that time citizenship would have to be conferred by his father but it required LEGITIMACY which means a Valid marriage NOT A VOID MARRIAGE.

There are various laws that have been enacted since his birth that would have an effect..such as a law about polygamous marriages before a certain date if said person was domiciled in the UK or similiar (such as the US).

It is a MESS. Nobody is going to touch that awful mess of his life.
You are not going to get him thrown out based on his UK citizenship....unless he actually registered and/or ran around with a UK passport...anything that tries to get him thrown out on an “automatic citizenship” is doomed to fail.

[roylll]

“I am one of the ones that believe the family was involved with the Spooks”

Who or what are the Spooks ?

[mojitojoe]

You are a Class A researcher. :-)
_______________
I agree, BP2 never fails to amaze me. Fred Nerks too. In fact, many on the BC threads are really amazing!

[El Gato]

You don’t know that a valid marriage in Kenya would be recognized in Hawaii?

No, I don't know that it was a legal marriage in Kenya.

[Vendome]

Well the way I see it, the marriage thing is interesting and I would love to get to the bottom of it but, as I understand it, citizenship was conferred based on the status of the father or sperm of the father. Marriage aside, it would be the legitimate and universal recognition that status is derived by your father.

Please, no argument, just my POV.

[RummyChick]

such as black baggers

[STARWISE]

I understand your point.

I’m not talking about immigration law in the UK.

My question is: if there is such a recorded
marriage license in HI,

what will provoke the revocation of this recorded
document, and how would one now conclusively prove
this was the case, especially with the foreign country
variable, and

what are the steps, the entity of authority and the
process by which it would be conclusively proven, and
undo an officially recorded HI marriage, declaring it
legally void ... unless and until revelation of
alleged bigamy is uncovered and proven, as folks years
later now believe is highly likely, and what flowed
from that proof provoked some sort of court or legal
administrative action?

I was focusing on the the provocation of such a process
and the methodology of the above.

BTW, I’m not a ‘you people’ ... it’s not appreciated.

We’re all students here, trying to unlock the truth,
conspiracies, intricacies and mysteries of this massive
maze.

[RummyChick]

That isn’t what I said.

Read it again.

A valid marriage in Kenya would be recognized in Hawaii. Don’t you know that?

[Vendome]

Spanish Prisoner

[RummyChick]

Then find out if Obama would have to register to gain UK citizenship if born on US soil... if your claim is true that there was a valid marriage.

[BonRad]

Woah!

BP2 for President!

[El Gato]

If not even a marriage certificate lists "bride" and "groom"

What about a marriage license? It sounds more appropriate for the license. In some states the license becomes the certificate, but at least today, in Hawaii, they are two different documents.

[El Gato]

Rememeber too that the Nordyke twins certificate was filed 3 days *after* BHO Jr’s COLB image indicates his was. Yet his file number is still lower than theirs?

[Curious George1978]

“My first thought when I read the index “Bride” “Groom” instead of “Mother” “Father” - it is possible that Zero was adopted by the two of them before being adopted by Soerto?”

That is my first thought as well. I think GRAMPS is his father. I saw a picture of Gramps and Obama SR. on the beach - celebrating during a graduation party. Where was Stanley Ann?

[El Gato]

Yes, at that time citizenship would have to be conferred by his father but it required LEGITIMACY which means a Valid marriage NOT A VOID MARRIAGE.

Wouldn't acknowledgment serve as well to confer citizenship? It would in the US, and it certainly would serve to establish that his legal fatheer was not a US citizen.