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DOOMED FROM THE START?
Tenth Amendment Center ^ | Mar. 18, 2010 | Thomas J. DiLorenzo

Posted on 03/19/2010 8:36:22 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake

After spending a lifetime in politics John C. Calhoun (U.S. Senator, Vice President of the United States, Secretary of War) wrote his brilliant treatise, A Disquisition on Government, which was published posthumously shortly after his death in 1850. In it Calhoun warned that it is an error to believe that a written constitution alone is “sufficient, of itself, without the aid of any organism except such as is necessary to separate its several departments, and render them independent of each other to counteract the tendency of the numerical majority to oppression and abuse of power” (p. 26). The separation of powers is fine as far as it goes, in other words, but it would never be a sufficient defense against governmental tyranny, said Calhoun.

Moreover, it is a “great mistake,” Calhoun wrote, to suppose that “the mere insertion of provisions to restrict and limit the powers of the government, without investing those for whose protection they are inserted, with the means of enforcing their observance, will be sufficient to prevent the major and dominant party from abusing its powers” (emphasis added). The party “in possession of the government” will always be opposed to any and all restrictions on its powers. They “will have no need of these restrictions” and “would come, in time, to regard these limitations as unnecessary and improper restraints and endeavor to elude them . . .”

The “part in favor of the restrictions” (i.e., strict constructionists) would inevitably be overpowered. It is sheer folly, Calhoun argued, to suppose that “the party in possession of the ballot box and the physical force of the country, could be successfully resisted by an appeal to reason, truth, justice, or the obligations imposed by the constitution” (emphasis added). He predicted that “the restrictions [of government power in the Constitution] would ultimately be annulled, and the government be converted into one of unlimited powers.” He was right, of course.

This is a classic statement of the Jeffersonian states’ rights position. The people of the free, independent and sovereign states must be empowered with the rights of nullification and secession, and a concurrent majority with veto power over unconstitutional federal laws, if their constitutional liberties are to have any chance of protection, Calhoun believed. The federal government itself can never, ever be trusted to limit its own powers.

How did Calhoun come to such conclusions? One answer to this question is that he was a serious student of politics, history, and political philosophy for his entire life, and understood the nature of government as much as anyone else alive during his time. He also witnessed first hand or quickly learned about the machinations of the sworn enemies of limited constitutional government in America: men such as Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, John Marshall, Joseph Story and Daniel Webster.

The Founding Fathers of Constitutional Subversion

America’s first constitution, the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union, did a much better job of limiting the tyrannical proclivities of government than the U.S. Constitution ever did, and it did so while permitting enough governmental power to field an army that defeated the British Empire. The limits on government that the Articles contained outraged the advocates of unlimited governmental powers, such as Alexander Hamilton, which is why the “Perpetual Union” that was created by the Articles was abolished as all the states peacefully seceded from that union

The constitutional convention was Hamilton’s idea as much as anyone’s. Upon arriving at the convention Hamilton laid out the plan of his fellow nationalists: a permanent president or king, who would appoint all governors, who would have veto power over all state legislation. This monopoly government would then impose on the entire nation a British-style mercantilist empire without Great Britain, complete with massive corporate welfare subsidies, a large public debt, protectionist tariffs, and a central bank modeled after the Bank of England that would inflate the currency to finance the empire.

Hamilton did not get his way, of course, thanks to the Jeffersonians. When the Constitution was finally ratified, creating a federal instead of a national or monopolistic, monarchical government, Hamilton denounced the document as “a frail and worthless fabric.” He and his Federalist/nationalist colleagues immediately went to work destroying the limits on government contained in the Constitution. He invented the notion of “implied powers” of the Constitution, which allowed him and his political heirs to argue that the Constitution is not a set of limitations on governmental powers, as Jefferson believed it was, but rather a potential stamp of approval on anything the government ever wanted to do as long as it is “properly” interpreted by clever, statist lawyers like Alexander Hamilton or John Marshall. Hamilton “set out to remold the Constitution into an instrument of national supremacy,” wrote Clinton Rossiter in Alexander Hamilton and the Constitution.

One of the first subversive things Hamilton did was to rewrite the history of the American founding by saying in a public speech on June 29 1787, that the states were merely “artificial beings” and were never sovereign. The “nation,” not the states, was sovereign, he said. And he said this while the constitutional convention was busy crafting Article 7 of the Constitution, which holds that the Constitution would become the law of the land only when nine of the thirteen free and independent states ratified it. The states were to ratify the Constitution because, as everyone knew, they were sovereign and were delegating a few express powers to the central government for their mutual benefit.

It was Hamilton who first invented the expansive interpretations of the General Welfare and Commerce Clauses of the Constitution, which have been used for generations to grant totalitarian powers to the central state. He literally set the template for the destruction of constitutional liberty in America the moment it became apparent at the constitutional convention that he and his fellow nationalists would not get their way and create a “monarchy bottomed on corruption,” as Thomas Jefferson described the Hamiltonian system.

Hamilton’s devoted disciple, John Marshall, was appointed chief justice of the United States in 1801 and served in that post for more than three decades. His career was a crusade to rewrite the Constitution so that it would become a nationalist document that destroyed states’ rights and most other limitations on the powers of the centralized state. He essentially declared in Marbury vs. Madison that he, John Marshall, would be the arbiter of constitutionality via “judicial review.” The Jeffersonians, meanwhile, had always warned that if they day ever came when the federal government became the sole arbiter of the limits of its own powers, it would soon declare that there were, in fact, no limits on its powers. This of course is what the anti-Jeffersonians wanted – and what has happened.

In the case of Martin v. Hunter’s Lessee Marshall invented out of thin air the notion that the federal government had the “right” to veto state court decisions. Marshall also made up the theory that the so-called Supremacy Clause of the Constitution makes the federal government “supreme” in all matters. This is false: The federal government is only “supreme” with regard to those powers that were expressly delegated to it by the free and independent states, in Article 1, Section 8.

Marshall also repeated Hamilton’s bogus theory of the American founding, claiming that the “nation” somehow created the states. He amazingly argued that the federal government was somehow created by “the whole people” and not the citizens of the states through state political conventions, as was actually the case. In the name of “the people,” Marshall said, the federal government claimed the right to “legitimately control all individuals or governments within the American territory” (Edward S. Corwin, John Marshall and the Constitution, p. 131).

All of the Hamilton/Marshall nonsense about the founders having created a monopolistic, monarchical government and having abolished states rights or federalism was repeated for decades by the likes of Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story and Daniel Webster. Story was “the most Hamiltonian of judges,” wrote Clinton Rossiter. His famous book, Commentaries on the Constitution, published in 1833, could have been entitled “Commentaries on Alexander Hamilton’s Commentaries on the Constitution,” says Rossiter. He “construed the powers of Congress liberally,” i.e., meaning there were virtually no limits to such powers; and “upheld the supremacy of the nation,” i.e., of monopolistic, monarchical, and unconstitutional government. Stories Commentaries provided a political roadmap for “the legal profession’s elite or at least among the part of it educated in the North during the middle years of the nineteenth century,” wrote Rossiter.

Story’s “famous” Commentaries are filled with phony history and illogic. On the Articles of Confederation, he wrote that “It is heresy to maintain, that a party to a compact has a right to revoke that compact.” But of course the Articles were revoked!

Secession of a single state would mean “dissolution of the government,” Story wrote. Nonsense. After eleven Southern states seceded in 1860–61 the U.S. government proceeded to field the largest and best-equipped army in the history of the world up to that point. It was hardly “dissolved.”

In a classic of doubletalk, Story admitted that “The original compact of society . . . in no instance . . . has ever been formally expressed at the first institution of a state.” That is, there was never any agreement by the citizens of any state to always and forever be obedient to those who would enforce what they proclaim to be “the general will.” Nevertheless, said Story, “every part should pay obedience to the will of the whole.” And who is to define “the will of the whole”? Why, nationalist Supreme Court justices like Joseph Story and John Marshall, of course.

Story admitted that social contract theories of “voluntary” state formation were mere theoretical fantasies. He also held the rather creepy and totalitarian, if not barbarian view that “The majority must have a right to accomplish that object by the means, which they deem adequate for the end . . . . The will of the majority of the people is absolute and sovereign, limited only by its means and power to make its will effectual.”

What Story is saying here is not that there should be a national plebescite on all policy issues that can express the “will of the majority.” No, as with Hamilton he adopted the French Jacobin philosophy that such a “will” was possessed in the minds of the ruling class, and that that class (the Storys, Hamiltons, Marshalls, etc.) somehow possessed “absolute” power as long as it has the military means to “make its will effectual.” Here we have the theoretical basis for Abe Lincoln’s waging of total war on his own citizens.

Contrary to the political truths expressed by Calhoun which have all proven to be true, by the way Story expressed the elementary-schoolish view that the appropriate response to governmental oppression should be only via “the proper tribunals constituted by the government” which would supposedly “appeal to the good sense, and integrity, and justice of the majority of the people.” Trust the politicians and lifetime-appointed federal judges to enforce their view of “justice,” in other words. That hasn’t really worked out during the succeeding 170 years.

Story also repeated John Marshall’s fable that the Supremacy Clause created a monopolistic government in Washington, D.C. and effectively abolished states’ rights, along with the equally ridiculous myth that the Constitution was magically ratified by “the whole people” (presumably not counting women, who could not vote, or slaves and free blacks).

Another famous and influential subverter of the Constitution was Daniel Webster, who repeated many of these same nationalist fables during his famous U.S. Senate debate with South Carolina’s Robert Hayne in January of 1830. This is a debate that Hayne clearly won according to their congressional colleagues, and the media of the day, although nationalist historians (a.k.a., distorians) have claimed otherwise.

The first Big Lie that Webster told was that “the Constitution of the United States confers on the government itself . . . the power of deciding ultimately and conclusively upon the extent of its own authority.” No, it does not. John Marshall may have wished that it did when he invented judicial review, but the document itself says no such thing. As Senator John Taylor once said, “The Constitution never could have designed to destroy [liberty], by investing five or six men, installed for life, with a power of regulating the constitutional rights of all political departments.”

Webster then presented a totally false scenario: “One of two things is true: either the laws of the Union are beyond the discretion and beyond the control of the States; or else we have no constitution of general government . . .” Huh? All the laws? Are the people to have no say whatsoever about laws they believe are clearly constitutional? Apparently so, said Daniel Webster.

The a-historical fairy tale about the Constitution being somehow ratified by “the whole people” was repeated over and over by Webster. His strategy was apparently to convince his audience not by historical facts but by repetition and bluster. “The Constitution creates a popular government, erected by the people . . . it is not a creature of the state governments,” he bellowed. Anyone who has ever read Article 7 of the U.S. Constitution knows that this is utterly false.

In fine French Jacobin fashion, Webster asked, “Who shall interpret their [the peoples’] will? Why “the government itself,” he said. Not through popular votes, mind you, but through the orders, mandates, and dictates of “the government itself.” The people themselves were to have nothing to do with “interpreting” their own “will.”

Article 3, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution clearly defines treason under the constitution: “Treason against the United States shall consist in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.” Thus, treason means levying war against “them,” the sovereign states. This is why Lincoln’s invasion of the Southern states was the very definition of treasonous behavior under the Constitution. Had the North lost the war, he could have been justifiably hanged.

Webster attempted to re-define treason under the Constitution by claiming that “To resist by force the execution of a [federal] law, generally, is treason.” Thus, if the federal government were to invade a sovereign state to enforce one of its laws, a clearly treasonous act under the plain language of the Constitution, resistance to the invasion is what constitutes treason according to Webster. He defined treason, in other words, to mean exactly the opposite of what it actually means in the Constitution.

Then there is the elementary-schoolish faith in democracy as the only necessary defense against governmental tyranny: “Trust in the efficacy of frequent elections,” “trust in the judicial power.” Well, we tried that for decades and decades, Daniel, and it didn’t work.

All of these false histories and logical fallacies were repeated by other nationalist politicians for decades. This includes Abraham Lincoln, who probably lifted his famous line in The Gettysburg Address from this statement by Webster during his debate with Hayne: “It is, Sir, the people’s Constitution, the people’s government, made for the people, made by the people, and answerable to the people. The people of the United States have declared that this Constitution shall be the supreme law.” Of course, they did not.

As Lord Pete Bauer once said in commenting on the rhetoric of communism, whenever one hears of “the people’s republic” the “peoples’ government,” etc., it is a sure bet that the people have nothing whatsoever to do with, or control over that government.

Hamilton, Marshall, Webster, Story, and other nationalists kept up their rhetorical fog-horning for decades, trying to convince Americans that the founding fathers did, after all, adopt Hamilton’s plan of a dictatorial executive that abolished states rights and was devoted to building a mercantilist empire in America that would rival the British empire. But their rhetoric had little or no success during their lifetimes.

New Englanders plotted to secede for a decade after Thomas Jefferson was elected president in 1800; all states, North and South, made use of the Jeffersonian, states’ rights doctrine of nullification to oppose the Fugitive Slave Act, protectionist tariffs, the antics of the Bank of the United States, and other issues up until the 1860s. There was a secession movement in the Mid-Atlantic states in the 1850s, and in 1861 the majority of Northern newspaper editorialists were in support of peaceful secession (see Northern Editorials on Secession by Howard Perkins).

The false, nationalist theory of the American founding was repeated by Abraham Lincoln in his first inaugural address (and praised decades later by Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf, wherein Hitler mad his case for abolishing states’ rights and centralizing all political power in Germany). In the same speech Lincoln threatened “invasion” and “bloodshed” (his words) in any state that failed to collect the newly-doubled federal tariff tax. He then followed through with his threat.

The only group of Americans to ever seriously challenge this false nationalist theory, Southern secessionists, were mass murdered by the hundreds of thousands, including some 50,000 civilians according to James McPherson; their cities and towns were bombed and burned to the ground, tens of millions of dollars of private property was plundered by the U.S. Army; Southern women, white and black, were raped; and total war was waged on the civilian population. This is what finally cemented into place the false, Hamiltonian/nationalist theory of the American founding, for the victors always get to write the history in war. Government of the people, by the people, for the people, is “limited only” by the state’s “power to make its will effectual,” as Joseph Story proclaimed. The technology of mass murder in the hands of the state finally made this will “effectual” in the first half of the 1860s. Americans have been mis-educated and misinformed about their own political history ever since. It is this mis-education, this false theory of history, that serves to prop up the Hamiltonian empire that Americans now slave under.

Thomas J. DiLorenzo [send him mail] is professor of economics at Loyola College in Maryland and the author of The Real Lincoln; Lincoln Unmasked: What You’re Not Supposed To Know about Dishonest Abe and How Capitalism Saved America. His latest book is Hamilton’s Curse: How Jefferson’s Archenemy Betrayed the American Revolution – And What It Means for America Today.

Copyright © 2010 by LewRockwell.com. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit is given.


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Reference
KEYWORDS: 10thamendment; founders; kkk; klan; racist; statesrights
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To: triSranch

(Jackson’s) wife had a tea party ...my error
should be ..John C’s wife had a tea party


21 posted on 03/20/2010 1:02:23 AM PDT by triSranch (Live from the Birthplace and Deathbed of the Confederacy)
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To: rae4palin

On July 14, 1832, after Calhoun had resigned his office in order to run for the Senate where he could more effectively defend nullification[4], Jackson signed into law the Tariff of 1832. This compromise tariff received the support of most northerners and half of the southerners in Congress.[5] The reductions were too little for South Carolina, and in November 1832 a state convention declared that the tariffs of both 1828 and 1832 were unconstitutional and unenforceable in South Carolina after February 1, 1833. Military preparations to resist anticipated federal enforcement were initiated by the state.[6] In late February both a Force Bill, authorizing the President to use military force against South Carolina, and a new negotiated tariff satisfactory to South Carolina were passed by Congress. The South Carolina convention reconvened and repealed its Nullification Ordinance on March 11, 1833.

The crisis was over, and both sides could find reasons to claim victory


22 posted on 03/20/2010 1:27:35 AM PDT by triSranch (Live from the Birthplace and Deathbed of the Confederacy)
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To: ForGod'sSake
Patrick Henry wasn't a Federalist. He, along with most Thomas Paine and George Mason, were probably the most notable Anti-Federalists.
23 posted on 03/20/2010 1:41:04 AM PDT by CitadelArmyJag ("Tolerance is the virtue of the man with no convictions" G. K. Chesterton)
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To: triSranch

“The crisis was over,....”

I think “postponed for thirty years” might be another way of looking at it.


24 posted on 03/20/2010 1:52:56 AM PDT by 21twelve (Having the Democrats in control is like a never-ending game of Calvin ball. (Giotto))
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To: 21twelve

Yep, hear tell that is was but a warm up for the final American war for freedom, once and for all.
All in this time..so I hear..


25 posted on 03/20/2010 2:55:45 AM PDT by triSranch (Live from the Birthplace and Deathbed of the Confederacy)
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To: ForGod'sSake

” Tyrants never sleep; We The People did. We are paying the price for our lack of vigilance, no?”

How true.


26 posted on 03/20/2010 3:53:36 AM PDT by Idabilly
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To: ForGod'sSake
Worth repeating:

Secession of a single state would mean “dissolution of the government,” Story wrote. Nonsense. After eleven Southern states seceded in 1860–61 the U.S. government proceeded to field the largest and best-equipped army in the history of the world up to that point. It was hardly “dissolved.”

27 posted on 03/20/2010 4:57:34 AM PDT by central_va ( http://www.15thvirginia.org)
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To: ForGod'sSake
The “part in favor of the restrictions” (i.e., strict constructionists) would inevitably be overpowered. It is sheer folly, Calhoun argued, to suppose that “the party in possession of the ballot box and the physical force of the country, could be successfully resisted by an appeal to reason, truth, justice, or the obligations imposed by the constitution” (emphasis added). He predicted that “the restrictions [of government power in the Constitution] would ultimately be annulled, and the government be converted into one of unlimited powers.” He was right, of course.

It's folly to believe that the founding fathers and those near their time didn't know anything about "modern" government because they lived in relatively non-technological, more bucolic age. They knew the propensities of the human heart and that it didn't make much of a difference except in body count and extent and speed of oppression whether the perp was using a club or the most powerful federal government in the history of the world.

Their goal was to keep these people hobbled. Strong states were the way to do it. The states could band together against any one state that tried to take over. The states could band together against a federal government trying to do the same. The first thing that the proto-statists would do, then, was to weaken the states. This was done through the 17th Amendment. By the popular election of senators the state governments were displaced from their position of counterbalance against the populism of the House of Representatives. It was said that the senators still represented the states, but it was no longer the states' governments they represented.

Remember that the move to institute the popular election of U.S. senators came because of someone trying to buy a senate appointment. And now we have the spectacle of others in the federal government buying the senators' votes on health care.

The ideology of leveling democracy to clear out competing institutions of power had knocked out a major threat to statism. The others that needed to be subordinated were churches and religion in general, educational institutions, private clubs (even the idea of any sort of private association which could determine its own membership requirements) and business. Looking over the past 100 years, the statists have done a pretty good job of eliminating or weakening the competition.

Another way they've used is to abuse words so that they become just another of the same kind of politics so that the distinctive nature of their threat is lost through a feeling of inclusiveness or familiarity, "Hey, we're all ideological." As I said in an earlier thread:
"Ideology" has come to mean "a system of political thought," but that loses the original distinction as a means of using reason, free of religion or aristocracy, to devise a system that will ensure equality and justice for all men.

Conservative politics is based on known quantities of what man actually is, of lessons learned through long experience in a real world. It is about as ideological in nature as mechanical engineering.

Ideological politics begins not with man as he actually is but with man as the ideologue believes he ought to be or could be if only the ideologue and his followers had enough time, money, or power to make them that way.

Since time, money, and power are all limited and since the ideologue has never been successful in accumulating any of the latter two through persuading enough people to make any difference (because at every stage of effort his product is defective and he relies chiefly on spinning a fairy tale of a perfect future), he aims to take control of a government in any way he can so that he can exercise power both to coerce the masses toward immanentizing the eschaton and to extort money from them to pay for it.

Since his world view is by definition in conflict with reality, the degree to which he is able to use state power to force people to conform to it is the degree to which people will be dehumanized and oppressed.

28 posted on 03/20/2010 5:57:10 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: ForGod'sSake
I try to understand the language used during our early years as opposed to how we speak today, because I think the English used then was by far more eloquent and descriptive.

Having said that, I also discover myself NOT reading what is sometimes explained as the understanding that is meant.

(I know .. it jumbles in MY head too)

But here .. in a passage of the above article;

"In a classic of doubletalk, Story admitted that “The original compact of society . . . in no instance . . . has ever been formally expressed at the first institution of a state.” That is, there was never any agreement by the citizens of any state to always and forever be obedient to those who would enforce what they proclaim to be “the general will.” Nevertheless, said Story, “every part should pay obedience to the will of the whole.” And who is to define “the will of the whole”? Why, nationalist Supreme Court justices like Joseph Story and John Marshall, of course."

The first segment; "In a classic of doubletalk, Story admitted that “The original compact of society . . . in no instance . . . has ever been formally expressed at the first institution of a state.”

Reads .. to me .. Story is stating that a social structure is never manifested when it first begins to developw from an idea.

But the author continues by saying;
"That is, there was never any agreement by the citizens of any state to always and forever be obedient to those who would enforce what they proclaim to be “the general will."

Now, that MAY say the same thing as I understand it, but not exactly.

So, here's my question(s) to any and all ...

When I read, am I understanding correctly the English used?

If I am not, but only partly, could THIS be the reason we are in such turmoil today ... our ability to understand our own language has been so altered and/or destroyed the words no longer make sense (teenage. and all .. texters scare me ) ?

29 posted on 03/20/2010 6:16:49 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: CitadelArmyJag
Patrick Henry wasn't a Federalist. He, along with most Thomas Paine and George Mason, were probably the most notable Anti-Federalists.

I think you may be right about that; labels tend to get caught up in the fog in this old noggin. Federalism and Federalist are in fact almost 180° opposites and I get them confused from time to time. Of course you're exactly right about their positions, that is, they were all against a powerful feral government that could dictate to the people and the states. Thanks for pointing out the error.

30 posted on 03/20/2010 10:32:02 AM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have two choices and two choices only: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!)
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To: aruanan
Just EXCELLENT! Also, there have probably been volumes written concerning the whys and wherefors of the 17th Amendment.

Another Freeper and I became involved in a fairly lengthy discussion of the 17th and in my web research it became pretty clear the reasoning behind the 17th. Keeping in mind full well the often suspect product, and the fact that history is most often written by the victors notwithstanding, a good case for changing the system emerged. Corruption at the state level in many, maybe most states led to a groundswell for popular election of senators. Could it be that much of this frenzy was whipped up by our exalted media types of the day? Probably.

Still in all and on balance I believe the Founders got it right, warts and all, having the individual states select their senators by whatever means each state chose. It is still incumbent on the electorate to hold their state legislatures accountable. And state capitols are a lot closer for most of us than DC.

31 posted on 03/20/2010 11:01:01 AM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have two choices and two choices only: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!)
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To: knarf
When I read, am I understanding correctly the English used?

Great question that I don't have an answer for. I would only make an observation: Politicians, especially those that attempt to deceive, generally have the ability to obfuscate even when they are trying to be honest. Those that know full well they are lying through their teeth aren't constrained to things like facts and the more eloquent the language, the greater the likelihood of them being able to pull it off, eg, barack odinga. Was Story from the same mold as odinga?

32 posted on 03/20/2010 11:13:58 AM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have two choices and two choices only: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!)
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To: ForGod'sSake

Good post. Sounds like most in gov’t would like this interpretation:

“the Constitution of the United States confers on the government itself . . . the power of deciding ultimately and conclusively upon the extent of its own authority.”

People that believe that are not pro freedom.


33 posted on 03/20/2010 3:08:21 PM PDT by dynachrome (Barack Hussein Obama yunikku khinaaziir!)
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To: ForGod'sSake

How likely is it that the original 13 states that ratified the Constitution would have done so if they believed that they would be abolishing their authority and sovereignty by doing so?


34 posted on 03/20/2010 3:38:52 PM PDT by Constitutionalist Conservative (Two blogs for the price of none!)
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To: ForGod'sSake

If the founders had intended that the fedgov could define the limits on its own power, the Constitution was a lot of wasted ink. This notion could have been expressed in a single article with a single clause.

Of course, no state that wasn’t controlled by raving lunatics would have ratified it.


35 posted on 03/20/2010 3:50:03 PM PDT by Constitutionalist Conservative (Two blogs for the price of none!)
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To: dynachrome
People that believe that are not pro freedom.

Nor would they be so good a comprehension, or more accurately given their unwillingness to cede power to "consent of the governed", claim to have the unique ability to decipher the subtle nuances the Founders intended -- but didn't actually put to paper. Navel gazing will do that to you. ;^)

36 posted on 03/20/2010 5:58:57 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have two choices and two choices only: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!)
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative
How likely is it that the original 13 states that ratified the Constitution would have done so if they believed that they would be abolishing their authority and sovereignty by doing so?

I'd say the liklihood is slim to none, and none just left town. From the limited research I've done it looks like there would have been no United States without the Bill of Rights, which sealed the deal.

37 posted on 03/20/2010 6:01:43 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have two choices and two choices only: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!)
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative
I meant to reply to both your posts together but, no matter...

If the founders had intended that the fedgov could define the limits on its own power, the Constitution was a lot of wasted ink. This notion could have been expressed in a single article with a single clause.

Similar thoughts I've had that for me, tend to clarify the Founders' intentions. What possible use would there have been for our Constitution if it didn't or doesn't actually mean what it says -- in plain language -- that we all can understand.

38 posted on 03/20/2010 6:07:49 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have two choices and two choices only: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!)
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative
Uhhhh, it occurs to me I kinda messed up an old saw...

"I'd say the likelihood is slim to none, and none just left town."

Should of course be slim just left town. Sortof dulled that old saw, eh??? But you probably knew that. Pardon the lapse; early stages of old-timers setting in I suspect.

39 posted on 03/20/2010 6:13:27 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have two choices and two choices only: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!)
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To: ForGod'sSake
One thing is certain, the states had better dismantle the Federal government and severely limit its power or we are doomed. The health care battle just showed the path to greater threat to our freedom. The Left will be back, more emboldened than ever next time. And... next time is very soon. They have the momentum only as long as the Baby Boom Generation can vote...
40 posted on 03/20/2010 8:45:37 PM PDT by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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