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On The Failure Of The Conservative Model
August 25, 2010 | j.argese

Posted on 07/25/2010 7:45:01 AM PDT by j.argese

While you were working to provide for your family, your children were indoctrinated by government schools.

While you were quietly awaited your chance to cast your vote, others were registering questionable applicants and taking seats on electoral boards.

While you reassured yourself "Conservatives don't do that", others were busy organizing, mobilizing and protesting to amplify their small numbers.

While you engaged in your normal, day to day business, others infiltrated and appropriated the media, academia, government, foundations.

While we accept one television station, supporting our point of view 50% of the time, the majority of the outlets disseminate the minority view continuously.

We can continue our minority majority status and applaud our micro-victories or we can change our strategy. My apologies for the wake up call but the choice is only ours.


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS:
fire at will ...
1 posted on 07/25/2010 7:45:03 AM PDT by j.argese
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To: j.argese

I’m not sure what part of “the conservative model” requires passive acquiescence to all affronts. That has never been part of my model, and I don’t know of any other conservatives who live by that model.


2 posted on 07/25/2010 7:48:20 AM PDT by PhatHead
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To: j.argese

Since you have all the answers, I expect to see your ass on the line. What ballot are you on?

If you’re not running for an office, then you are another “perfect candidate” resting on their butts telling everyone else what the problems are but offering no solutions. In other words, worthless.


3 posted on 07/25/2010 7:50:11 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: j.argese

The Conservative model isn’t about passive letting things happen, that is actually a liberal model- waiting for someone else (usually the government) to do the job that you should be doing. Conservative at its core is about the individual, thus, a true Conservative individual wouldn’t be passive in any of these instances, they would be active- not demanding government fix the problems, but taking a proactive-approach to each of these.

Don’t like how your kids are being taught, change their schools or teach them yourself.

Don’t like what is happening with elections, run for an office, become a poll watcher, or become active in the community.

Etc, etc..


4 posted on 07/25/2010 7:51:56 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: j.argese
"While you were working to provide for your family, your children were indoctrinated by government schools."

Not if you never bought into the scam of secular humanism and sent your children to private religious schools. If more did that, the NEA's monopoly would come to an end.

5 posted on 07/25/2010 7:52:28 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: PhatHead
"I’m not sure what part of “the conservative model” requires passive acquiescence to all affronts. That has never been part of my model, and I don’t know of any other conservatives who live by that model."

Nothing requires it, but it's been a part and parcel of the actual behaviour of conservatives (and, quite frankly, most non-liberals) since at least the 50s. Read Wm. F. Buckley, Jr.'s book God and Man at Yale, published in 1951, and you will see in embryo most of the liberal, neo-fascist doctrines and policies that are being forced down our throats today.

The same things were going on even then - good people ignoring what was going on in their childrens' educations, and ignoring transparently political biases in media, and on and on.
6 posted on 07/25/2010 7:52:55 AM PDT by Oceander (The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance -- Thos. Jefferson)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

but, but.. he is a warrior... a super dooper warrior, typing away, clickty click, about everything everyone else should be doing.. and playing warcraft.


7 posted on 07/25/2010 7:53:15 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: mnehring

Nah, if he played Warcraft he would know the truism: You spank it, you tank it.

The fact that he spanked this discussion should have clued him in that people wouldn’t just fall all over themselves thanking him for pointing out the problems. Heck, Obama can do that.

The solutions, and the plan to get the solutions going are the hard part. So unless he had been stuck trying to kill Hogger for 3 years, he doesn’t play Warcraft.


8 posted on 07/25/2010 7:59:56 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: Oceander

I think you are confusing “normal human behavior” with what you are terming “the conservative model.” Most people are apolitical - before, during and after the “liberal indoctrination” of the public schools. Most people do not vote based on issues at all. We often wish they did, but they don’t, and political consultants will never admit that the vast majority don’t care about issues and don’t pay any attention. That’s how Alvin Greene got elected.

Yet, when asked to self identify their own leanings, conservatives outnumber liberals 2 to 1, so the indoctrination appears to need a little fine-tuning.

I’ll agree with you if you want to make a point about the failure of elected (nominal) conservatives to actually act on their professed beliefs - because the people have voted for the right folks plenty often enough - but you sound like you’re blaming the victim.

And, yes, “the same things were going on” sixty years ago - and a thousand years ago. There is nothing new under the sun, and today is not the end of history.


9 posted on 07/25/2010 8:01:04 AM PDT by PhatHead
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To: mnehring; Anitius Severinus Boethius
I was under the impression the appropriate protocol was to "ping" an individual to whom you were making reference.

So now you have deemed those who write as "warriors"? Would you consider Limbaugh, Steyn, Sowell, ad infinitum as "warriors" as well? And no, I don't consider myself in their league but you made the initial remark, let us read your definition.

10 posted on 07/25/2010 8:03:06 AM PDT by j.argese (Liberal thought process = oxymoron)
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To: j.argese

It was your thread, no need to. IE, you were already on the thread so why ping you to it?


11 posted on 07/25/2010 8:03:48 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: mnehring
The flaw is that conservatives have values; honesty, truthfullness, belief that we are responsible for our own success, etc. We naturally believe that others are like us. When it comes to libs/progressives we are dead wrong. They have no values; their mantra is "whatever I can get away with". Their "values" include only plotting and scheming and any corrupt means to achieve their ends. We are accustomed to fair dealings, being able to trust your neighbor's word. They are used to "screw you before you can screw me". Wanna bet that the guy who parks at the yellow curb at the shopping center is a lib? My bet is that it is 99% certain. "Me first; screw you".

I hope we (and especially our Repub office holders) begin to recognize the corruption of the Democratic officials and followers and start treating them like the slime-balls they are.

We need to vote them all out; pressure all elected office holders to "roll back" to Constitutional (i.e., the "Contract" between and amongst the states) principles, severely CUT BACK the size (by 75%) of the government at all levels and return to spending on necessities, not all the "nice to have" B.S.

Sorry for the rant, but I am so sick of the corruption and the so-called MSM.

12 posted on 07/25/2010 8:05:34 AM PDT by Thom Pain (2 + 2 = 4 : Defending the Constitution is CENTRIST; not RIGHT WING! Don't be labeled!)
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To: mnehring

Consider that he is telling the truth. Here is an example of the people he refers to.

As an example, a friend stood overlooking his boat (45’, largest diesels CAT could fit in the hull), docked in front of his home in Palmetto, FL. His cameras cost about 250,000 bucks - the energy industry was good to him.

“If Hillary wins, they’ll raise my taxes so much I may have to sell this place”. What he thought when the Alinsky Community Organizer became POTUS can only be imagined.

The money line is that he did not spend to defend what he had earned.

Therefore, he is the rightful prey of Obama and his Regime.

Tom knew all about the history of socialism in America, as we had discussed it since college.

Most Americans are like animals in a socialist stall in that they feed, breed, and eventually die.

ANtonio Gramsci told the commies to take a generation or two and take over academia and the agencies. Only then could communism occur in America

They did. It is occurring right now.


13 posted on 07/25/2010 8:08:14 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: mnehring

Consider that he is telling the truth. Here is an example of the people he refers to.

As an example, a friend stood overlooking his boat (45’, largest diesels CAT could fit in the hull), docked in front of his home in Palmetto, FL. His cameras cost about 250,000 bucks - the energy industry was good to him.

“If Hillary wins, they’ll raise my taxes so much I may have to sell this place”. What he thought when the Alinsky Community Organizer became POTUS can only be imagined.

The money line is that he did not spend to defend what he had earned.

Therefore, he is the rightful prey of Obama and his Regime.

Tom knew all about the history of socialism in America, as we had discussed it since college.

Most Americans are like animals in a socialist stall in that they feed, breed, and eventually die.

ANtonio Gramsci told the commies to take a generation or two and take over academia and the agencies. Only then could communism occur in America

They did. It is occurring right now.


14 posted on 07/25/2010 8:08:31 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius; mnehring; All
Again, I'll excuse the oversight of the polite ping.

What's Warcraft?

I wasn't pointing out anything except the slow surrender by Conservatives. You know the ones who are going to educate conservatism one person at a time. The ones who are going to support their vanity/boutique candidates and damn those who actually have the possibility of winning.

I didn't claim to have all the answers. I didn't claim to have one answer. I do have to say, what we're doing now isn't doing a whole lot, is it?

15 posted on 07/25/2010 8:09:17 AM PDT by j.argese (Liberal thought process = oxymoron)
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To: mnehring

Perhaps “ping” isn’t the proper term. I always thought if an individual was being spoken about, it’s good manners to let them know.


16 posted on 07/25/2010 8:10:50 AM PDT by j.argese (Liberal thought process = oxymoron)
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To: j.argese

The failure is the American voter.


17 posted on 07/25/2010 8:11:45 AM PDT by bmwcyle (It is Satan's fault)
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To: j.argese
Again, I'll excuse the oversight of the polite ping.

You might want to climb down off that high horse of yours.

Your not being pinged was not an oversight. As you have already been told, courtesy pings to the originator of a thread are not common practice on FR. They're only used when someone gets mentioned who is not already participating in the discussion.

18 posted on 07/25/2010 8:22:35 AM PDT by Bob
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To: j.argese

You may not know what Warcraft is, and that’s what I suggested anyway, but do you know who “Captain Obvious” is?

We know all of these problems. Why did you feel it neccesary to point them out? Unless you have solutions, it’s more than worthless to point out where we are failing. It’s demoralizing.

At a time where there are conservative candidates running for offices in higher numbers than has been seen in decades, at a time where liberal Republicans are losing primaries to novice politicians, at a time when the most liberal President in 30 years looks to be heading to lame duck status half way through his only term, it’s at this time that you want to point out what the problems have been?!?

We know! That’s why there is a ground swell of non-political people standing up against it!

And you never ping the author of a thread, it’s assumed that he reads every post.

You spank it, you tank it. If you don’t know what that means, look it up and learn a valuable life lesson rather than post a meaningless and demoralizing thread.


19 posted on 07/25/2010 8:29:10 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: Bob; mnehring; Anitius Severinus Boethius
You may note, I addressed the situation. The time between the two posts was prior to the correction.

Thanks for your attention.

20 posted on 07/25/2010 8:31:00 AM PDT by j.argese (Liberal thought process = oxymoron)
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To: j.argese

Limbaugh, Steyn, Sowell, ad infinitum all have answers. They don’t just moan and complain about the problems.


21 posted on 07/25/2010 8:31:45 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius; All
Please understand my intention wasn't to be demoralizing or confrontational but more an attempt to brainstorm, for lack of a better term. Conservatives have achieved much in the past year or so by breaking free of previous behaviors.

We listened to the Class of '94, which lost steam by 2000. We heard Rush ask if Liberalism was dead in America. Obviously not. We stopped playing to win and started thinking we could run out the clock.

I keep thinking about Ellsworth Toohey, when he was speaking to Gail Wynand. Wynand was making profits but losing the paper. We are in the same position. An example? In earlier days people went to work for the government and sacrificed higher income for security and benefits. Well, how did that work out? Now they have the benefits, the security and the pay, all the while taxing you into poverty and creating regulations by which you must abide.

22 posted on 07/25/2010 8:44:45 AM PDT by j.argese (Liberal thought process = oxymoron)
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To: j.argese

While you were working and paying taxes, half the US population was made exempt from paying income taxes (And if they did not earn enough, they were given free money by the IRS, under the Earned Income Credit).


23 posted on 07/25/2010 8:55:22 AM PDT by Rapscallion (Obama - The anti-American dictator disguised as a President. Repeal Obamaism.)
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To: j.argese
August 25, 2010 | j.argese

You wrote this a month in the future?

Way cool!

Before you come back to this time, can you look up and freep mail me me the winning Powerball lottery ticket numbers for the July 27th, 2010 drawing?

24 posted on 07/25/2010 9:40:23 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (The problem with Socialism is eventually you run our of other peoples money. Lady Thatcher)
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To: j.argese
We can continue our minority majority status and applaud our micro-victories or we can change our strategy.

So...what is your strategy?

I mean, besides accusing and pigeonholing everyone on here while making many assumptions without any validation.

25 posted on 07/25/2010 9:45:06 AM PDT by Allegra (I am not humblegunner...and Pablo is very wily.)
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To: MNJohnnie

picked up on that, didya?


26 posted on 07/25/2010 9:53:41 AM PDT by j.argese (Liberal thought process = oxymoron)
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To: Allegra
Imagine, if you will, a group of Conservatives with the same level of energy and defiance as that possessed by the Patriots who stopped the vote counting in Miami-Dade in 2000.

It's obvious the current Congress doesn't fear us. They voted on the Obama agenda without batting an eyelash. But then again, I mentioned my intentions in a previous post.

Thanks,

j

p.s.

Hope all is well with you. Your reports from Baghdad were quite informative.

27 posted on 07/25/2010 9:59:33 AM PDT by j.argese (Liberal thought process = oxymoron)
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To: PhatHead

No, actually, I’m making the case that ordinary people failed to take any measures to protect their own best interests against the surreptitious incursions of the liberals, in large part because education has been systematically undervalued, and most people were content to let liberals conduct their “silliness” over in the schools, content, like sheeple, in the false belief that liberals couldn’t do much harm there. Now we see just how wrong we all were.


28 posted on 07/25/2010 10:18:24 AM PDT by Oceander (The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance -- Thos. Jefferson)
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To: j.argese

I agree wholeheartedly with the above sentences. We’ve had the “creeping socialism” for YEARS, courtesy of Both “political party Rulers” (notice, even the RINO’s that continue at the helm). It’s taken Obama and the radicals to wake up more than Freepers. I think the TeaParties are testament to that.


29 posted on 07/25/2010 1:03:17 PM PDT by radioone ("The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.")
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To: Oceander

Yes, “ordinary people” engage in what I termed “normal human behavior.” I still don’t see how that is the “conservative model” which has failed. You laid out a premise that suggested there is somehow a conservative political model we’ve all be following and it hasn’t been successful, now all you seem to be saying is that liberals are always pushing their agenda, and normal people don’t push back until it’s already gone too far. With that, I agree, but it really isn’t a new argument. You might almost say that people “are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.”


30 posted on 07/25/2010 3:56:53 PM PDT by PhatHead
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To: PhatHead

If you want to fob off responsibility on someone else and play the role of the victim, that’s your choice.

The simple fact of the matter remains - it wasn’t the liberals who sat by passively, in the face of clear evidence that their interests weren’t being served, in fact were being affirmatively disserved, now was it? That leaves only one conclusion - conservatives were sitting passively by, in the face of clear evidence that they were in danger, and they did nothing.


31 posted on 07/25/2010 8:22:49 PM PDT by Oceander (The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance -- Thos. Jefferson)
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To: Oceander
If you want to fob off responsibility on someone else and play the role of the victim, that’s your choice.

You cannot possibly be responding to anything I said. No conservatives sat by passively. Normal, regular, non-political people did. And they always will - that isn't the failure of some grand conservative plan.

Don't confuse your arguments like the guy who started this thread has. It just sounds silly.

But then, I remember high school. If you are just now figuring out that liberals are drawn to government and bureaucratic jobs that they imagine give them power over the minds of the people, then you are either very young, or you only recently started paying attention. Either way, welcome.

But if your reaction is to be disheartened, because the "conservative plan failed," then you are part of the problem. The grand liberal triumph in the schools has yielded a populace that that self-identifies 2:1 conservative over liberal.

Don't be a defeatist. Conservatives don't - and shouldn't - have a grand plan to be masters of the people. That's why we ultimately win, however painful some of the stops along the way may be.

32 posted on 07/25/2010 9:26:03 PM PDT by PhatHead
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To: Oceander

Sorry - WRT my reference to “the guy who started this thread,” I realize I’m still talking to that person.


33 posted on 07/25/2010 9:28:30 PM PDT by PhatHead
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To: PhatHead

No conservatives sat passively by? Really? So where are all those conservatives who got into academia in order to at least balance, if not expunge, the liberal cadres that had installed themselves in academia for the express purpose of brainwashing our children, a la Bill Ayers? Oh yeah, they didn’t. That’s passivity in the face of a threat, no matter how you want to dress it up.


34 posted on 07/26/2010 4:43:31 AM PDT by Oceander (The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance -- Thos. Jefferson)
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To: PhatHead; Anitius Severinus Boethius; mnehring; HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity; bmwcyle; Bob; ...
I'd like to start off by thanking you for your comments and criticisms. All were valuable in helping to establish a starting point for future projects.

I didn't list my solutions because I wanted to see responses to my observations, not to ideas put forward. Maybe I'm missing something or my decoder ring is out of date but I couldn't define the current Conservative model any other way but passive. If anyone could provide an example or two, I'd be receptive.

I keep hearing about the need to educate about Conservatism. Well, someone again pointed out the 2 to 1 identification ratio so our work should be done, let's go fishin'. Well, actually we can't do that because electoral results don't bear that statistic out, does it? We might start by discovering how people define Conservative vs conservative.

more to follow

35 posted on 07/26/2010 5:52:28 AM PDT by j.argese (Liberal thought process = oxymoron)
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To: j.argese; Oceander

I guess I must be missing your point. Maybe you are advocating conservative speech codes, or conservative brainwashing? No thanks. My kids have been through school without being brainwashed. So have most people.

The fact that most people aren’t political is not a failure of any “model.” As one who has worked very hard for decades against the things that are bothering you, along with many other conservatives, I just wonder what planet you are living on where “conservatives sat passively by.”

When you claim “the conservative model” has failed, I guess I just have no idea what “model” you are talking about. Your comments just remind me of the sort of thoughts that ran through my teenaged mind when I first read Ayn Rand, and thought I was the first to realize that there really were Ellsworth Tooheys out there. But I wasn’t.

Rand was exposing the grand liberal conspiracy decades before Bill Ayers and Oliver Stone became part of it, and still more decades before you, just now, seem to have noticed it. But somehow you and I were able to figure it out, weren’t we? Unlike liberals, I don’t think that makes us part of some intellectual elite. I think you and I figured it out because it isn’t really much of a secret, and because their brainwashing didn’t work on us. And because there were always conservatives calling it out.

The liberal college professor, real as he may be, is also a laughingstock and a stereotype; he is not an effective proselytizer. When Americans self-identify as conservative rather than liberal by a 2:1 margin, I think that the alarm bells over the centuries-old liberal grand plan are a little overblown.

Keep calling them out - that’s what we do. But conservatives don’t believe that there are “unwashed masses” who need to be, and ought to be, schooled by their betters in the intellectual elite. We believe in the individual, and we believe that when those individuals live their own lives, and take care of themselves and their families, they are - by nature, not by design - already part of a greater cause: the cause of freedom.

I don’t like it when people just throw up their hands and say “we’ve failed” or “we’ve lost” simply because the other side hasn’t given up. They will never give up. You would do well to keep in mind TS Eliot’s admonition that “there is no such thing as a lost cause, because there is no such thing as a gained cause.”

Our elected so-called conservatives are the ones who have fallen short. Those stupid, brainwashed “sheeple” gave them control of Congress for twelve years, and what did they get in return? Was it really so irrational to give up on them?

Conservatives in politics will always play the role of rolling back “change.” We start from a base of freedom, not “programs.” And people, or “sheeple,” as faux-conservative elites like to call them, will always be “more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable” than to become activists, so sometimes the rollback will be painful.

But don’t be a quitter, and don’t blame the victim.


36 posted on 07/26/2010 6:01:04 AM PDT by PhatHead
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To: PhatHead
Heaven's no, not a conservative speech code! Actually, more like a fast response media team + action.

I was on my way out, when I saw your post so I wanted to nip that right in the bud.

37 posted on 07/26/2010 6:26:09 AM PDT by j.argese (Liberal thought process = oxymoron)
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To: j.argese
Whew! ;-)

BTW, I love this line on your profile page:

The truth shouldn’t just hurt, it should leave a bruise for a week to 10 days.

38 posted on 07/26/2010 7:15:22 AM PDT by PhatHead
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To: PhatHead; Anitius Severinus Boethius; mnehring; HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity; bmwcyle; Bob; ...
To continue on my previous ...

A solution I touched on was the creation of a rapid response team or special ops to quickly counter lies and soft facts release by various organizations. This would also be used to spread information within the Conservative community.

An example of each: How quickly did Shirley Sherrod go from racist to victim? Half a news cycle? How was that turned around so quickly? That may not be the perception among Conservatives but among receivers of the water torture media? That is how minds are influenced!

An example of dissemination of news within our group: Conservatives bloggers met in Las Vegas, what happened? I couldn't tell you if you were going to pay off my mortgage. Not FR, not Drudge, nothing. I can tell you about Franken, Reid and Jones though. Why?

39 posted on 07/26/2010 8:28:25 AM PDT by j.argese (Liberal thought process = oxymoron)
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To: PhatHead

Wow! Such a long response, and so utterly beside the point.


40 posted on 07/26/2010 5:02:58 PM PDT by Oceander (The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance -- Thos. Jefferson)
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