Posted on 11/04/2010 7:19:12 PM PDT by WesternCulture
70 years ago, Britain and America together murdered the industrial capacity of Continental Europe.
(I have dared to arrive in Dresden early morning - doing so will rip your heart out, the marks of the bombings still are extremely present, words can't describe what you'll encounter)
50 years ago, Continental Europe stood up very well against America and Britain.
21 years ago, the Berlin wall came down.
Today, Communism and Nazism are stone dead in Europe, economic growth is decent in Germany and our school children are not instructed to salute Hitler or Stalin.
We Europeans are annoying when we accuse others of being uneducated fools, yes, but we also know much about shaping the future of Humanity.
Goebbles, a well educated man, didn't know how to handle the heritage of Goethe, Bach and Heine.
He chose to replace this glorious cultural heritage by evil lies. We all know that end of that story.
The truth Schiller and Goethe saw will eternally survive evil.
Beethovens 9th symphony says just about it all and accordingly all of Humanity ought to know it by heart:
(Beethoven's incredible symphony is based on the words of Friedrich Schiller, o)
1 Joy, beautiful spark of Gods, 2 Daughter of Elysium, 3 We enter, fire-imbibed, 4 Heavenly, thy sanctuary. 5 Thy magic powers re-unite 6 What custom's sword has divided 7 Beggars become Princes' brothers 8 Where thy gentle wing abides. Chorus
9 Be embraced, millions! 10 This kiss to the entire world! 11 Brothers - above the starry canopy 12 A loving father must dwell. 13 Whoever has had the great fortune, 14 To be a friend's friend, 15 Whoever has won the love of a devoted wife, 16 Add his to our jubilation! 17 Indeed, whoever can call even one soul 18 His own on this earth! 19 And whoever was never able to must creep 20 Tearfully away from this circle. Chorus
21 Those who dwell in the great circle, 22 Pay homage to sympathy! 23 It leads to the stars, 24 Where the Unknown reigns.
25 Joy all creatures drink 26 At nature's bosoms; 27 All, Just and Unjust, 28 Follow her rose-petalled path. 29 Kisses she gave us, and Wine, 30 A friend, proven in death, 31 Pleasure was given (even) to the worm, 32 And the Cherub stands before God. Chorus
33 You bow down, millions? 34 Can you sense the Creator, world? 35 Seek him above the starry canopy. 36 Above the stars He must dwell. 37 Joy is called the strong motivation 38 In eternal nature. 39 Joy, joy moves the wheels 40 In the universal time machine. 41 Flowers it calls forth from their buds, 42 Suns from the Firmament, 43 Spheres it moves far out in Space, 44 Where our telescopes cannot reach. Chorus
45 Joyful, as His suns are flying, 46 Across the Firmament's splendid design, 47 Run, brothers, run your race, 48 Joyful, as a hero going to conquest. 49 As truth's fiery reflection 50 It smiles at the scientist. 51 To virtue's steep hill 52 It leads the sufferer on. 53 Atop faith's lofty summit 54 One sees its flags in the wind, 55 Through the cracks of burst-open coffins, 56 One sees it stand in the angels' chorus. Chorus
57 Endure courageously, millions! 58 Endure for the better world! 59 Above the starry canopy 60 A great God will reward you. 61 Gods one cannot ever repay, 62 It is beautiful, though, to be like them. 63 Sorrow and Poverty, come forth 64 And rejoice with the Joyful ones. 65 Anger and revenge be forgotten, 66 Our deadly enemy be forgiven, 67 Not one tear shall he shed anymore, 68 No feeling of remorse shall pain him. Chorus
69 The account of our misdeeds be destroyed! 70 Reconciled the entire world! 71 Brothers, above the starry canopy 72 God judges as we judged. 73 Joy is bubbling in the glasses, 74 Through the grapes' golden blood 75 Cannibals drink gentleness, 76 And despair drinks courage-- 77 Brothers, fly from your seats, 78 When the full rummer is going around, 79 Let the foam gush up to heaven*: 80 This glass to the good spirit. Chorus
81 He whom star clusters adore, 82 He whom the Seraphs' hymn praises, 83 This glass to him, the good spirit, 84 Above the starry canopy! 85 Resolve and courage for great suffering, 86 Help there, where innocence weeps, 87 Eternally may last all sworn Oaths, 88 Truth towards friend and enemy, 89 Men's pride before Kings' thrones-- 90 Brothers, even it if meant our Life and blood, 91 Give the crowns to those who earn them, 92 Defeat to the pack of liars! Chorus
93 Close the holy circle tighter, 94 Swear by this golden wine: 95 To remain true to the Oath, 96 Swear it by the Judge above the stars! 97 Delivery from tyrants' chains, 98 Generosity also towards the villain, 99 Hope on the deathbeds, 100 Mercy from the final judge! 101 Also the dead shall live! 102 Brothers, drink and chime in, 103 All sinners shall be forgiven, 104 And hell shall be no more. Chorus
105 A serene hour of farewell! 106 Sweet rest in the shroud! 107 Brothers--a mild sentence 108 From the mouth of the final judge!
The blood of Dresden is solely on the hands of Schickelgruber and Company.
That is hardly equivalent. Torturing, starving, experimenting on, and killing captives is not the same as waging war. Since the victims were imprisoned, perforce they could not fulfill the purpose of pleading with their leaders to make peace. We didn’t even find out about the extent of the evil done to the Jews until after the war.
The perpetrators were rightly prosecuted for war crimes for these horrible deeds.
Here’s a little food for thought: Our current “rules of engagement,” where we’re allowed neither to kill civilians nor fire first, enables the enemy to hide in mosques, orphanages, and civilian neighborhoods, using their own innocents as human shields. That costs American lives, and it is a particularly stupid way to wage war. Bleeding-heart policies are killing our troops when we should have cleaned up the area and established peace a long time ago by properly waging war there.
The winners make the rules and write the history....had the Germans prevailed then Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill would have all been prosecuted for war crimes. Same goes for Lincoln if the South had won.
What is your point? Your answer is another non sequitur. I’m not going to argue with you about propaganda. The truth is that there were torture camps for the prisoners taken by Axis, and there were no torture camps for the prisoners taken by the Allies. Torture camps are war crimes. Bombing an enemy city is not.
The Nazi camps were a straw argument you threw up against my saying that war is war, and I should not have made a riposte to your subject change, nor will I continue to search for a cogent argument in this conversation.
Based upon your logic then the attack on the World Trade Center by Al Qaeda was a legitimate act of war.....and, by the way, lots of German soldiers died from starvation and disease in Soviet and American run camps. Bringing up the Nazi death camps simply highlights how wrong your argument is....the planned killing of civilian targets during war is just wrong....collateral damage is another thing all together. The attack on Dresden was not collateral damage.
When a country starts a world war (the 2nd one they started in 25 years) and one loses, yet again, well, expect to reap the whirlwind. Especially when they called everyone in the occupied territories of the east (Untermenschen) subhumans! I have no sympathy for the incinerated in Dresden. Only those at Auschwitz, and Treblinka, and Sobibor, and Belzec, and Majdanek and Kulmhof am Ner and on and on and on. There is no moral equivalence between bombing Dresden and bombing Warsaw.
Fewer nazis=a good thing! Nazi Germany deserved every bomb they got. They deserved the A bomb.
Germany is lucky they weren’t annihilated like the Morgenthau plan called for. They deserved that too.
I just chanced across this on YouTube. A interesting take on “Ode To Joy.” No doubt about it, Ludwig van Beethoven is an immeasurable and imperishable contribution to Western Civilization. No, strike that; make it Civilization!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaHPND2QJg
Lyrics in English for “Ode to Joy”
(”Ode An Die Freude”)
Beethoven’s 9th Symphony
O friends, no more these sounds!
Let us sing more cheerful songs,
more full of joy!
Joy, bright spark of divinity,
Daughter of Elysium,
Fire-inspired we tread
Thy sanctuary.
Thy magic power re-unites
All that custom has divided,
All men become brothers
Under the sway of thy gentle wings.
Whoever has created
An abiding friendship,
Or has won
A true and loving wife,
All who can call at least one soul theirs,
Join in our song of praise;
But any who cannot must creep tearfully
Away from our circle.
All creatures drink of joy
At nature’s breast.
Just and unjust
Alike taste of her gift;
She gave us kisses and the fruit of the vine,
A tried friend to the end.
Even the worm can feel contentment,
And the cherub stands before God!
Gladly, like the heavenly bodies
Which He set on their courses
Through the splendor of the firmament;
Thus, brothers, you should run your race,
As a hero going to conquest.
You millions, I embrace you.
This kiss is for all the world!
Brothers, above the starry canopy
There must dwell a loving Father.
Do you fall in worship, you millions?
World, do you know your creator?
Seek him in the heavens;
Above the stars must He dwell.
If you really want to pursue that idea, maybe "executed" would be a better word than murdered.
It's not like there wasn't provocation and even justification.
And "occupied," would be more appropriate than the bland "Continental."
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