Steve Forbes Wants A Replacement Of The HCR Bill With One That Would Be Like The Food Stamp Program?

1/4/2010 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

I was watching Forbes on Fox yesterday, and I could have sworn that I heard Steve Forbes say that a potential repeal and replace of Obama Care could be accomplished by Republicans pushing for a repeal and a replacement with a Health Care bill that would be similar to the food stamp program - and it would be set up on a sliding scale basis.

This got me to thinking...

How could Dems possibly be against this?

First of all, it could be set up as being voluntary - no individual mandate. No one is required to sign up for food stamps, and no one would be required to sign up for this, either. Those that want to keep their private coverage could. Obama himself said when campaigning against Hillary Clinton for the Democrat nomination that you couldn't mandate health care coverage anymore than you could mandate home ownership.

Secondly, costs could be kept down with allowing competition across state lines, tort reform, and requiring that when people moved up the economic ladder that they pay back what they used under this system.

This proposal would box Obama in as this would force him to say that he would be against a HCR system that is similar to the food stamp program, would force him to continue to support the individual mandate when it would no longer be necessary, and force him to have to let go of the gov't having total control that it will have under Obama Care.

[Baynative]

The direction of this administration seems to be toward having as many people as possible renting rather than owning homes and collecting government assistance rather than working. I suppose its a vision of the new world order, but how can it work ...who would pay for everyone to just hang around until the checks and stamps come in the mail?

[nina0113]

Food stamps are less easily scammed than you might imagine.

Back when it was the coupons it was pretty easy - people were always selling them for half-face-value in the bars I worked at. One time when someone stole a huge quantity from the main office, they were selling for ten cents on the dollar. And you CAN SO buy cigarettes with them; I've seen it. People confuse 'legal' with 'possible' all the time.

[rockinqsranch]

What say I? I say NO. Our government has no business being involved in anything outside its assigns in the Constitution.

Anything remotely along the lines of a remake is simply perpetuating the wrong direction the Left has driven this lumbering truck to date.

Everything we find of distress with our government today is directly related to past Leftist meddling with our Constitutional system. It has to stop.

NOTHING HALFWAY. IT HAS TO BE STOPPED COMPLETELY, and that which the Left has accomplished has to be reversed.

[Mr. K]

I remember a story a couple of months ago about the cops being called on a guy dumping something behind a building.

turned out he bought cases of bottled water with FOOD STAMPS and was pouring them down the drain. Why? So he could get the 5 cents per bottle refund and buy cigarettes.

Perfectly legal. The cops had to let him keep pouring.

[M. Dodge Thomas]

First of all, it could be set up as being voluntary - no individual mandate.

The same suggestion has been made as a alternative if "mandates" are found unconstitutional - purchase of health care via the exchanges (which are a market mechanism, and would likely be attractive to many economic conservatives if they had not been part of a Democratic proposal) would instead be made voluntary.

The problem is that to make any such system work, you need to deny care to those who voluntarily chose not to insure, otherwise the rest of us just and up paying (one way or another)for their care he they turn up at ER or public or charity clinics.

Since we are not going deny such care (at least to a much greater extent than we already "ration" care by income and insurance status), all such schemes encourage freeloading.

For this perspective if does not make much difference if you offer people "heath care stamps" eligible for the purchase of individual health insurance or offer people the opportunity to purchase subsidized insurance via exchanges (except that their pooled purchasing power will likely be greater via an exchange), as long as such purchase is voluntary before need, and care is available to non-purchasers, there will be a strong incentive to avail yourself of free care "at need" rather than "pre-pay" via the purchase of insurance.

This side of the equation does not get much attention: lots of people are thinking "OMG, I will be forced to buy insurance", while ignoring the fact that those of us paying taxes are already "insuring' those who will not insure themselves.

[muawiyah]

Oh, my goodness, there's probably an overlap of charitable activity as well. Oh, the humanity ~

Yup ~ the poor are probably stealing us blind ~ which is why they are still poor.

let's see, if somebody on food stamps used his card three times a day to buy a $3.45 sandwich (no kitchen, no refrigerator, semi-homeless ~ this is normal), and each time got $0.55 change back, that'd be $1.65 per day, or about $24 billion per year if you had 40,000,000 people on food stamps.

With food stamps running $68.88 per week, that's a total budget of $143 billion per year.

Nope, doesn't seem to me making change is running it in the ditch ~ and at max that'd be about 17% of total program costs.

I suspect a very high percentage of food stamps value goes for food which is eaten by the intended targets.

And hey, almost everybody on food stamps now uses a food stamp card, not actual food stamps, so they get to keep that change and spend it on something else ~ like vitamins even.

A secret to life ~ if you find yourself fixated on foodstamps and see them as probably the single greatest source of fraud and theft in this country, you probably should check in with a minister or rabbi, or priest, and have them take you to see some poor people on food stamps so you can talk to them. Even rabbis know some poor people ~ and you will find they know all the other people who work with the poor as well.

[BfloGuy]

It's probably the seed of a good idea; I would especially like it if it replaced Medicaid.

Health insurance for the poor is already here and won't go away. It would be smart to move it towards the Food Stamp model which provides food for tens of millions of people without burdensome record-keeping for the retailers and no bureaucracies to set up and monitor special reimbursement procedures.

It allows the food industry to operate normally while still feeding the poor.

Liberals would hate it, though. They understand full well that the poor are, by and large, irresponsible and won't watch their health without being tailed by government agencies and given free taxi rides to the doctor.

[muawiyah]

This is not a suitable argument. Your problem is that the vast overwhelming majority of the people who will be FORCED to purchase insurance do not have the income to afford it, nor are they eligible for the reduced rates. That's because they are the millions of young college and highschool graduates our society is presently leaving JOBLESS.

Threatening them with $250,000 fines ain't gonna' work either.

What your asking for is some spontaneous organizing on the part of the target population ~ and I doubt you'll care for the results. Now it's not going to hurt me ~ I'm ready with the armbands to sell them, and all that. $2.00 a head should make me quite wealthy.

[Alberta's Child]

I think you're being a little harsh there. Steve Forbes has a very sharp mind in financial matters, and when I read his columns or hear him speak I find very little I can argue with.

I heard an interview with him on Bloomberg radio a couple of weeks ago, discussing various financial matters. His commentary on the challenges facing the municipal bond market was very astute, and he demonstrated a very good understanding of current political/economic issues.

He even offered some interesting personal financial advice for the listeners. The host asked him something to the effect of: "You are very wealthy and successful, so your personal circumstances may not translate well to everyone who is listening -- but do you have any personal financial advice that you would give, that can be useful to people in all different income/wealth levels?"

Forbes' answer: "The one thing I've done that would make sound financial sense for just about anyone is that I've lived in the same home for the last 35 years."

[Old Student]

nope. It’s based on monthly income; if you make $2150 or less you’re eligible. When I was recovering from the hip replacement, I investigated. I was making $7/month too much, with a family of 5.

$25884/year, that.

BTW, YMMV depending on which state you are in, I’m in Oklahoma.

[dalebert]

I agree...foodstamps is a huge rip off. corruption and waste is rampant. dumb and dumber.

[Old Student]

” I suppose its a vision of the new world order, but how can it work ...who would pay for everyone to just hang around until the checks and stamps come in the mail?”

All us “rich” people. Although they keep changing the number the think defines “rich.”

They don’t seem to realize that once you’ve taken enough money from the rich, there are no rich left.

[LuvFreeRepublic]

CVS pharmacies have “Minute Clinics”, and there is a “Little Clinic” at a Kroger grocery store near where I live. Not too expensive and the wait’s usually pretty short.

They could use their HC stamps for these less expensive services instead of clogging up the emergency rooms and we the tax payers picking up a more expensive tab.

[NEMDF]

I think you are over-reacting to my comment. I recall reading that some states allow people to use their food stamp card and walk away with $50 in cash at the store. This is not the same as your $.55 3 times a day.

Your sarcasm is not appreciated. I am not “fixated on food stamps” as you suggest. I do know and have known people on food stamps and “poor people”, even have some personal experience with that. So save your “secret to life” crap for another time/place/poster.

[muawiyah]

I thought you thought the poor on food stamps were fair game ~ and now I find you don't think you are fair game because, alas, you know poverty.

Yup, sure ~ everybody is poor.

FAIL

[NEMDF]

Chill out, would you? You seem to be making all kinds of assumptions from a few comments.

FAIL YOURSELF

[GraceG]

The only food the government should be allowed to feed the poor and those on welfare is a scietifically formulated high protein blend that makes it's own gravy when mixed in with water.

Free food should not be appealing food, it should be sutainable food that is healthy to the individual eating it. It should have vitamins in it and other minerals, but should taste like dirt. It should be dry and able to be stored without needing refrigeration and served without needing cooking.

We need to stop giving people food stamp "credit cards" that can be used to buy pizza and chips at the local piggly wiggly. We as a society need to attach a stigma to receiving free food from the government. Instead of giving them food stamps, they should have to go to local welfare office and pick up their 10 lb bag of bachelor chow per person once a week and walk home with it in shame.

Maybe after eating bachelor chow week after week they will decide to get off their duffs and get a real job so they can eat some real food.

[Yaelle]

Like Food Stamps? Basically a debit card of $500 that you could use every month? No shame, no stamps, nothing? Just a magic card that would allow you to get FAR more doctor visits and meds than a middle class family can afford??

What about Housing Stamps? So you don’t have to pay your mortgage or rent? What about Auto Stamps? Another credit card that would pay your car payment every month?

Man, I wish I was poor, cause I can’t afford life the old fashioned way..

[GraceG]

[ I remember a story a couple of months ago about the cops being called on a guy dumping something behind a building.

turned out he bought cases of bottled water with FOOD STAMPS and was pouring them down the drain. Why? So he could get the 5 cents per bottle refund and buy cigarettes.

Perfectly legal. The cops had to let him keep pouring. ]

Unintended consequences of government meddling creating abuse within the system personified.

[GraceG]

[ Like Food Stamps? Basically a debit card of $500 that you could use every month? No shame, no stamps, nothing? Just a magic card that would allow you to get FAR more doctor visits and meds than a middle class family can afford?? ]

I absolutely LOATHE the fact that one of the reason they went to the new “food stamp debt card” was to eliminate the “Shame” of using food stamps in line.

If you are an adult and dependant on the government for your life, you should feel shame even if it was your fault or not you are in that situation. Getting away from shame is a good motivator for improving your life.