Posted on 01/18/2011 1:20:48 PM PST by rxsid
Actually, the grandfather clause allowed folks born outside the US to become President. For example, Alexander Hamilton, who was born in the British West Indies.
NBC is the Americanized version of ‘natural born subject’, a phrase with a specific meaning in English law - one that included those born within the realm of TWO alien parents. There were exceptions for invading armies and diplomats.
If the Founders wanted to require two citizen parents, then they could have said so, instead of using a phrase that meant otherwise.
“Apparently infiltrating FR IS his assignment...”
And I’ve done it since 1998. I’m amazing!
If you aren’t willing to read the evidence then STFU.
You refuse to read the evidence. That makes you willfully ignorant.
So... yea... STFU
In a free republic we don't need a legal case. Our duly elected, appointed and hired officials should have pursued this. Everyone who swore an oath and had the ability or responsibility to investigate eligibility should be severely disciplined, impeached, fired or incarcerated. Those we pay a salary to and had the responsibility have defrauded the government and us taxpayers. The democratic party should be sued out of existence. Punishment needs to be severe enough that it never happens again and to insure that those who take an oath take it seriously.
ping
What you remember and what actually happened are two very different things.
Go back and peruse FreeRepublic eligibility threads from 2008. You’ll find that the earliest threads about Obama’s eligibility began June 9, 2008. After NRO's Jim Geraghty asked Obama to release his birth certificate to quelch some rumors. You might find a stray comment referencing that underlying rumor prior to June, but you'll find that it wasn't taken seriously by other posters and didn't result in serious discussions, much less whole threads about his eligibility.
You’ll further find that there were no threads where anyone posited any ‘two-citizen-parent’ requirement until AFTER the election. You’ll also find that neither you nor anyone else at FR was citing Vattel until mid-to-late November 2008, and more likely December 2008..
That’s because Leo Donofrio pretty much made up that notion out of whole cloth in his pleadings. The earliest pleading of his I’ve seen to make the claim was from early November 2008 (specifically, here, where it’s tacked on almost as an afterthought), though I believe one of his pleadings from late October (that he’s never put online) may also mention it. That linked pleading went online November 15, apparently.
And the ‘two-citizen-parent’ talk didn’t make its way to FreeRepublic and other forums where Birtherism was discussed until mid-to-late November 2008 at best.
The EARLIEST I’ve found that argument showing up at FreeRepublic was in this November 19, 2008 thread. A Leo Donofrio thread, naturally.
But that was pretty much just one poster saying that mid-thread, with some follow-up discussion about it. It wasn’t until December that the argument started gaining traction at FR. Here, for instance, is a December 4 thread that helped to spread it.
And do you notice who isn’t invoked in the first several pages of that thread? Vattel. Vattel’s name didn’t start making the rounds until later. Again, you’ll notice, by the same poster, who apparently discovered Vattel in the interim days.
Only then did the argument start to snowball and pick up adherents. The evolution of it is pretty straightforward. In October 2008, nobody was arguing ‘natural-born means two citizen parents.’ Right around election day, Donofrio creates that argument. (Notice too that Donofrio's lawsuit was the first suit to make the claim, while suits filed in December started using it frequently.) A couple of weeks later, a few people start repeating it. And after a couple more weeks, a lot of people start repeating it and treating it as gospel. A look at the FR eligibility threads from the last quarter of 2008 demonstrates this evolution.
Heck, start with June 2008, and you’ll see that posters were talking Obama’s eligibility for five full months before they started claiming that ‘natural born citizen’ requires two citizen parents. Before they started citing to Vattel. Like curiosity said, only after the election actually took place did that argument take off.
And there was no reason NOT to make it, if it was a legitimate and widely accepted position. We've always known Obama's father wasn't a US citizen. And yet it wasn't until after election day that people began widely arguing that that lack of US citizenship was an absolute disqualification.
(And lest the issue be confused, 'natural born citizenship requires two citizen parents' is a different argument than 'natural born citizens cannot be born with dual citizenship.' A child can be either one without necessarily being the other. One concerns the child's citizenship, the other concerns the child's parents' citizenships. And if the matter was as simple and straightforward and obvious as 'he's disqualified because of his father's citizenship', you'd think someone would actually say that in the two years before the election. But they didn't.)
If you don’t believe me, just look at old FR threads. Do a search for the ‘certifigate’ or ‘naturalborncitizen’ tag. Do a search specifically for BP2’s posts, as he became one of the earliest and most ardent advocates of that claim as seen above, and you can see precisely when he started advancing it. And it wasn’t prior to November 2008.
And hey, if you actually find it being discussed earlier, let me know. Post the links, like I’ve done above. I’ve looked and I can’t find anything, but I won’t ignore links to actual, dated discussions that I’ve missed. It’s not like FR scrubbed all the threads that would contradict me. (Heck, I'd be interested in isolated instances that *didn't* lead to discussions like you say, and were just ignored or dismissed as wrong by other posters.) But there’s no reason to trust your own hazy two-year-old recollection over actual preserved discussions that lay out a contrary evolution of the argument.
Don’t you remember Sammy Scammy and API?
Yes, but how is that relevant? Korir’s claim (from October 2008) was that Michelle Obama stated that Barack was adopted by Lolo Soetoro. That’s wholly unrelated to the claim that natural born citizenship requires two citizen parents.
To illustrate this, here are two threads (one being rather lengthy) concerning Korir and his phantom tape. See any mentions of ‘two citizen parent’ requirements therein?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2105779/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2106375/posts
LMAO... so you thing FR was the ONLY place I posted at. I would LOVE to know how you know my other handles LorenC. I would LOVE to know how you found out where I also post at.
No I am NOT going to tell you. I am NOT going to connect them.
Be that as it may, FR was NOT by any means the only place where these issues were discussed. You sorta know how to use the internet and Google, you do the research yourself. There were a LOT of people discussing Obama’s eligibility for POTUS. Funny enough, some of those concerns were raised by DEMOCRATS. Thats enough of a hint for you... oh so knowledgeable and omniscient user of the internet one.
Oh and PS, Leo had an earlier blog where a lot of this stuff was discussed, but he took that down before he started the Natural Born Citizen blog. There were several others as well. Do your research before you pop off dear, just as you are accusing several here of NOT doing.
No arguments? None? Nowhere on the Internet? LoL. Based on two citizens certainly did. I'm sure good old troll LorenC is splitting hairs.
So BS Curiosity. Danae is correct.
It came up from time to time from June/July up until the elections in November 2008 on FR. A few posters mentioned that Obama was not a natural born citizen because of not having two US citizen parentS.
Although most of the posters were focusing on Obama BS Online COLB since that was topic of the summer of 08, but what you say is false as this FReeper brought it up that it takes two citizen parents for someone to be a natural born citizen. Citing Citizen WEll's website.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2040486/posts?page=1200#1200
BTW, poster David would bring up two citizenship parents were needed before the elections of 2008.
You think I care what your other handles are? Why? I didn’t even ask for other discussions *you* were part of; I wouldn’t have had any reason to connect you to any specific other poster until you made a big deal out of it.
No, you simply can’t point to pre-November 2008 discussions of ‘two-citizen-parent’ claims. So instead, you appear to be falling back on made-up excuses about internet handles to avoid having to admit you were wrong. And that’s unnecessary; there’s no shame in recognizing that you’ve misremembered something.
I’ve demonstrated that I’ve done research on this point. You’ve demonstrated that you have memories. And excuses. And zero links or sources.
I’m well aware that Obama’s eligibility was discussed other places online. Conservative sites like Atlas Shrugs or WorldNetDaily. Democratic PUMA sites like Hillbuzz or NoQuarter or TexasDarlin. Conspiracy sites like Prison Planet. And so on. But the evolution of those discussions followed the same timeline I already laid out. Pro-Hillary Democrats weren’t making ‘two-citizen-parent’ claims before November 2008 either. I used FR citations because they’re relevant, illustrative, and because FR doesn’t tend to be *months* behind other websites on matters such as these, especially during a Presidential campaign. And because, as I previously mentioned, you can’t easily claim that FR deleted or scrubbed old discussions.
I’m also aware that Leo Donofrio had a blog before http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/ . In fact, he had two. Immediately prior was http://thenaturalborncitizen.blogspot.com/ , which he only had for a few weeks. Prior to that was http://blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen (the site I already linked to in my last post), which was begun on November 10, 2008. After the election.
A full five months huh? It was not even a whole month after the DailyKOS-Kooks posted Obama's BS COLB on June 12th, 2008. LoL. Obviously, not true as I showed in post 115.
The post you screencapped points back to Post 1199. Where the claim being made is that Obama isn't a natural born citizen because his mother "was not old enough to qualify her son for automatic U.S. Citizenship."
THAT was the argument being made. Not that two citizen parents are an absolute requirement. Plus, it was being made on the erroneous legal grounds of applying a statute explicitly concerning the inheritance of US citizenship by a child born OUTSIDE the states to a child born INSIDE the states.
As for your claim that David brought up the 'two-citizen-parent' argument before the election, here is a link straight to David's posts from December 2008. You can page back from there (all the posts from July-December fit onto about 5 pages). I see several instances of David referring to 'natural born citizen' requiring birth within the geographic United States (e.g., "I tend to doubt that the Supreme Court is going to hold him ineligible if he was born in the US."), but nothing pre-November 2008 making a two-citizen-parent argument.
If you think that screencap actually includes a reference to a two citizen parent requirement, I suggest seeing an eye doctor.
Now now more BS. I can point to that it was discussed on FR and elsewhere. You hung yourself in post 110 and hey obfuscator, you hung yourself again in post 116 too.
No, you simply can’t point to pre-November 2008 discussions of ‘two-citizen-parent’ claims.
You got called on your nonsense.
Here it is again troll-bot.
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