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'Irrefutable' proof of Obama forgery
WND ^ | July 16, 2011 | Jerome R. Corsi

Posted on 07/18/2011 4:28:59 AM PDT by RobinMasters

NEW YORK – Unless the typewriter used to type Barack Obama's purported Hawaiian "Certificate of Live Birth" in 1961 was magically capable of producing different size and shaped images with the exact same key, the document released by the White House April 27 is a forgery, says a professional typographer with 50 years experience.

"Steel-stamped letters do not expand to larger sizes and morph into different styles of type," retired New York City typographer Paul Irey told WND.

As WND previously reported, it would be impossible for the different letters that appear in the Obama birth certificate to have been typed by one typewriter, according to Irey.

"These are irrefutable proofs of forgery," he said.

His newest analysis suggests the document was assembled from images of letters or words taken from other documents.

"The forger who produced the Obama Hawaii long-form birth certificate may have thought that all typewriter typeface styles were alike," he said.

"To get his letters, the forger must have understood that he needed to copy the old typewriter styles," he continued. "So the forger probably scanned a bunch of old birth certificates, without realizing that the letters in the old files were from different typewriter styles. That's why the letters in the forged document do not match each other."

Irey used as a source document the Xerox copy of the Obama birth certificate the White House press staff handed to the press assembled in the White House pressroom on April 27, as seen in Exhibit 1:

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Politics
KEYWORDS: barrysoetoro; bc; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; corruption; corsi; eligibility; farahsfolly; forgery; hawaii; hopespringseternal; naturalborncitizen; thistimeforsure; usurper; wnd
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To: ml/nj
Remember, I think it was Butter, posted txe thing about *it was in front of us all the time?* txe pesky fact that Hawaii stamps are either embossed or debossed and txe stamp on txe forgerieS were txe opposite? To me THAT along with Alvin's smiley face and txe *TXE* for *the* is hard to refute.
Any answers to that?
51 posted on 07/18/2011 8:23:01 AM PDT by charlene4 ("The only people who don’t want to disclose the truth are people with something to hide.” BHO)
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To: charlene4

ML/NJ Sorry did not mean to post to you!


52 posted on 07/18/2011 8:25:07 AM PDT by charlene4 ("The only people who don’t want to disclose the truth are people with something to hide.” BHO)
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To: P-Marlowe

“Is there a single document expert in the world who has declared the BC to be genuine?”

Probably not. But that’s because real document authentification experts like those who are certified by the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners would never do an analysis of a third or fourth generation digitized scan of a document as opposed to an analysis of the original document.
If you wanted to find out if a twenty dollar bill was counterfeit, would you want to have an expert look at a scan of that particular twenty or would you rather that they have the original alleged counterfeit twenty in their hot little hand?
Every generation of reproduction can introduce its own set of artifacts into a copy. The first being, did the person who made the original copy clean the photocopier glass before making the first generation copy?

To the best of my knowledge, only four people have seen the original, long form, vault copy, birth certificate over the last 50 years: two Hawaii Directors of Health, the current Registrar of Vital Statistics for the state of Hawaii and whoever the clerk was who made the two hard copy photocopies of the original.


53 posted on 07/18/2011 8:26:06 AM PDT by jh4freedom
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To: jh4freedom

One *expert* who Fox used denied that he told Fox it was Legit.

Check this! If true, I would gladly miss my SS check!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
August 4th 2011, Millions of Senior Citizens Could File Suit Against President Obama

Wednesday, July 13, 2011 5:33

Well well well, Mr. Obama has slipped up! what he fails to recognize is IF he does withhold Social Security Checks.. he opens himself up to millions of lawsuits! Did you know that on June 16, 2011 Supreme court of the U.S. decided Bond v. United States, 564 U. S. ____ (2011) that if Obama‘s actions or inaction’s cause financial harm to an individual or group of individuals, that they have STANDING to file suit against him!?!?!
Ever wanted a shot at taking him down? now could be your chance to have standing to sue him bowlegged and once and for all prove he is not who he says he is. ie; ss#, lfcb, colb, selective service fraud, wire fraud, mail fraud, etc etc etc.
So kids, on August 4th 2011, you can file suit and have standing against President Barack Obama, Call your attorney NOW! don’t wait for the rush and reclaim what you not only earned but deserve!


54 posted on 07/18/2011 8:49:15 AM PDT by charlene4 ("The only people who don’t want to disclose the truth are people with something to hide.” BHO)
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To: ml/nj

Superman left, Gumby right.


55 posted on 07/18/2011 9:03:51 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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Boop His Nose! It's Soft... but Mind the Teeth!

What do you mean, you didn’t donate yet?

Donate one time
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A sponsoring FReeper will contribute $10
For each New Monthly Donor

56 posted on 07/18/2011 9:04:06 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: Genoa
I appreciate and support the idea that the so-called long form is problematic, but minutely examining character shapes seems a waste of time, since scanning commonly introduces distortions like this.

To you, I say, "BS"!

I just happen to have a scanned copy of a Xerox copy of a letter I typed back in 1971 on a manual typewriter with a cloth ribbon. Here are the four capital 'R's from that letter:

The differences are entirely due to the force with which I struck the key when I typed.

ML/NJ

57 posted on 07/18/2011 9:28:45 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: MWS

Interesting how the Murdoch scandal in Britain is bringing down police officials, Mayors, journalist. It was a culture of looking the other way. Same with Atlanta Schools cheating. When it falls it is big.


58 posted on 07/18/2011 9:38:18 AM PDT by opentalk
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To: Tex-Con-Man

The fact that you follow these threads contradicts your claim that this is a non-issue.

If you want to be consistent, we should not see any more of your posts on this topic.


59 posted on 07/18/2011 10:00:03 AM PDT by nosf40
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To: jh4freedom; xzins
To the best of my knowledge, only four people have seen the original, long form, vault copy, birth certificate over the last 50 years: two Hawaii Directors of Health, the current Registrar of Vital Statistics for the state of Hawaii and whoever the clerk was who made the two hard copy photocopies of the original.

All of this is hearsay. This document would not be admitted in any court of law as being the genuine birth certificate or a facsimile of the original. There is nothing to back up the fact that it is a copy of an original.

The issue could be resolved by Obama ordering a certified original and then giving the Certified Original to the press. He has posted a PDF on the White House web site with no documentation as to where it came from and there have been dozens of software engineers and documents experts who have not only questioned the authenticity of the document, but have declared it to be a fraud.

60 posted on 07/18/2011 10:05:31 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o)
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To: P-Marlowe

All of this is hearsay. This document would not be admitted in any court of law as being the genuine birth certificate or a facsimile of the original. There is nothing to back up the fact that it is a copy of an original.

The issue could be resolved by Obama ordering a certified original and then giving the Certified Original to the press. He has posted a PDF on the White House web site with no documentation as to where it came from and there have been dozens of software engineers and documents experts who have not only questioned the authenticity of the document, but have declared it to be a fraud.

Read Rule 902 of the Federal Rules of Evidence:
http://www.utcourts.gov/resources/rules/ure/0902.htm

The Reader’s Digest Version is that whatever the state of Hawaii says is an authentic birth record for their state which carries the state Seal and an authentification statement from an authorized representative of the state is “self-authenticating” in any Court of Law. The same would be true before any committee of Congress or in a Grand Jury proceeding.

The scanned image from a pdf file is irrelevant. A hard COPY would be introduced in any court of law or before a congressional committee.

From the state of Hawaii:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: April 27, 2011
HAWAI‘I HEALTH DEPARTMENT GRANTS PRESIDENT OBAMA’S REQUEST FOR CERTIFIED COPIES OF ‘LONG FORM’ BIRTH CERTIFICATE
HONOLULU – The Hawai’i State Health Department recently complied with a request by President Barack Obama for certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth, which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “long form” birth certificate.
“We hope that issuing certified copies of the original Certificate of Live Birth to President Obama will end the numerous inquiries related to his birth in Hawai’i,” Hawai’i Health Director Loretta Fuddy said. “I have seen the original records filed at the Department of Health and attest to the authenticity of the certified copies the department provided to the President that further prove the fact that he was born in Hawai’i.”

On April 22, 2011, President Obama sent a letter to Director Fuddy, requesting two certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth. Also on that day, Judith Corley, the President’s personal attorney, made the same request in writing on behalf of the President. (Letters from President Obama and Ms. Corley are attached).

On April 25, 2011, pursuant to President Obama’s request, Director Fuddy personally witnessed the copying of the original Certificate of Live Birth and attested to the authenticity of the two copies. Dr. Alvin Onaka, the State Registrar, certified the copies.

President Obama authorized Ms. Corley to pick up the documents. On April 25, 2011, Ms. Corley appeared in person at the Hawai’i State Department of Health building in Honolulu, paid the requisite fee, and was given the two certified copies, a response letter from Director Fuddy to President Obama, and a receipt for payment. (Letter from Director Fuddy is attached).

In June 2008, President Obama released his Certification of Live Birth, which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “short form” birth certificate. Both documents are legally sufficient evidence of birth in the State of Hawai’i, and both provide the same fundamental information: President Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawai’i at 7:24 p.m. on August 4, 1961, to mother Stanley Ann Dunham and father Barack Hussein Obama.

In 2001, the Hawai’i State Department of Health began computer-generating vital statistics records. Since then, its longstanding policy and practice has been to issue and provide only the computer-generated Certifications of Live Birth, and to not produce photocopies of actual records to fulfill requests for certified copies of certificates.
Director Fuddy made an exception for President Obama by issuing copies of the original birth certificate. The departmental policy to issue only computer-generated Certifications of Live Birth remains in effect for all birth records that have been computerized. Director Fuddy, in her capacity as Health Director, has the legal authority to approve the process by which copies of birth records are made.

“The exception made in this case to provide President Obama with a copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth was done according to the letter of the law,” Attorney General David Louie said. “Director Fuddy exercised her legal authority in a completely appropriate manner in this unique circumstance. We will continue to maintain the strict confidentiality requirements afforded to vital statistics records, such as birth certificates. These requirements help protect the integrity of the records, and keep us all safe from crimes, such as identity theft.”

Governor Neil Abercrombie stated: “Considering all of the investigations that have been done and the information that has been provided, no rational person can question the President’s citizenship. We have found a way – once again – to confirm what we already knew: the President was born here in Hawai’i. State officials of both parties have verified that President Obama’s birth records show that he was born in Honolulu.
“President Obama’s mother and father were dear friends of mine, and we must respect their memory. It is an insult to the President, his parents and to the Office to suggest that he was not born in Hawai’i. The State of Hawai’i has done everything within our legal ability to disabuse these conspiracy theorists. We granted the President’s request for certified copies of his birth certificate so we can all move on from this unfortunate distraction and focus on the real issues affecting people today.”
###
For more information, contact: Donalyn Dela Cruz, Press Secretary, (808) 586-0012

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/News_Release_Birth_Certificate_042711.pdf


61 posted on 07/18/2011 10:25:44 AM PDT by jh4freedom
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To: ml/nj

Your four images are all a little different from each other. That’s the kind of distortion I was referring to. For example, one R has a flat-looking serif and another R has a curly-looking serif. Scanning gives a rough image, especially if the DPI isn’t real high. I guess I just don’t know what anyone hopes to prove from this sort of thing. The nine layers—now that I understand.


62 posted on 07/18/2011 10:27:41 AM PDT by Genoa (Starve the beast.)
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To: nosf40
The fact that you follow these threads contradicts your claim that this is a non-issue.
If you want to be consistent, we should not see any more of your posts on this topic.

Since your short posting history consists exclusively of birther threads, it is understandable you would get the mistaken impression that Free Republic is a birther website. It's a conservative website. And since I still consider birtherism to be a political threat to advancing conservatism, I'll continue to comment when the inspiration strikes.

My post upthread reflected the seriousness with which I hold this subject...it was a joke...

63 posted on 07/18/2011 10:47:07 AM PDT by Tex-Con-Man
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To: jh4freedom
But that’s because real document authentification experts like those who are certified by the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners would never do an analysis of a third or fourth generation digitized scan of a document as opposed to an analysis of the original document.

Yours is such a BOGUS argument.

The Forensic Document Examiners you speak of are normally called upon to authenticate a document. To authenticate a document does require examination of the original. But that is not what we are doing here. We are involved in demonstrating that some document is not authentic from a copy of that document.

You might have a look at the London Times of October 26, 1995. According to the Times, Reginald Alton, whom they described as an Oxford Scholar and leading British handwriting expert, declared the supposed suicide note of Vincent Foster to be a poor forgery. Alton, of course, was not given access to the original torn note. All he used to make his pronouncement was the image of the note published in the Wall Street Journal.

ML/NJ

64 posted on 07/18/2011 10:54:56 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: RobinMasters

Actually, in this situation, this might be quite explainable: 1) a preprinted form with one or more typefaces, 2) standard hospital information typed on copies of the same form using a different machine(s) and typeface(s), 3) typewritten entries for individuals being birthed.


65 posted on 07/18/2011 11:24:21 AM PDT by Real Cynic No More (The mighty zero, obama,does not warrant the respect necessary for his name to be capitalized.)
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To: ml/nj

Yours is such a BOGUS argument.

The Forensic Document Examiners you speak of are normally called upon to authenticate a document. To authenticate a document does require examination of the original. But that is not what we are doing here. We are involved in demonstrating that some document is not authentic from a copy of that document.

You might have a look at the London Times of October 26, 1995. According to the Times, Reginald Alton, whom they described as an Oxford Scholar and leading British handwriting expert, declared the supposed suicide note of Vincent Foster to be a poor forgery. Alton, of course, was not given access to the original torn note. All he used to make his pronouncement was the image of the note published in the Wall Street Journal.

ML/NJ


Anybody with evidence of an alleged crime (and forgery is both a “high crime and a misdemeanor”) should take that evidence to a law enforcement agency for further investigation.

I don’t think anybody minds having discussions about whether there is a forgery or not. These discussions are interesting.


66 posted on 07/18/2011 12:01:04 PM PDT by jh4freedom
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To: wintertime
"Where is the evidence that our highest military peacefully and legally sought certifiable clarification from congress and the courts that Obama was a natural born citizen?"

Do we really want the military asking questions before taking orders?

Should the military be taking sides in issues or debates between the legislature, executive and judicial branches of government? Isn't that how military juntas or military dictators come to power?

67 posted on 07/18/2011 12:01:20 PM PDT by Vintage Freeper
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To: jh4freedom
Anybody with evidence of an alleged crime (and forgery is both a “high crime and a misdemeanor”) should take that evidence to a law enforcement agency for further investigation.

I don't think you've noticed, Pal. People have been doing this for years now with mixed results. One distinguished military guy just got out of the slammer for having the temerity to do as you suggest. Some of us who ask questions haven't been completely crushed yet, but even on FR here there are people like you who ridicule and raise BOGUS arguments. It's not nice.

ML/NJ

68 posted on 07/18/2011 12:17:44 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: Vintage Freeper
Should the military be taking sides in issues or debates between the legislature, executive and judicial branches of government?

I wonder how you think the united States came into being.

ML/NJ

69 posted on 07/18/2011 12:19:39 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj

Fifty-six men sat down and drafted a list of grievances that led to their decision to declare independence. There was no army, no navy, and no military involvement at all.


70 posted on 07/18/2011 12:38:02 PM PDT by Vintage Freeper
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To: ml/nj

I don’t think you’ve noticed, Pal. People have been doing this for years now with mixed results. One distinguished military guy just got out of the slammer for having the temerity to do as you suggest. Some of us who ask questions haven’t been completely crushed yet, but even on FR here there are people like you who ridicule and raise BOGUS arguments. It’s not nice.

ML/NJ

Obama eligibility legal actions thus far have been civil lawsuits. The criminal side of the judicial system has not been approached and forgery can be investigated and charged as either a misdemeanor offense or as a felony crime.

Lieutenant Colonel Lakin didn’t file a criminal complaint with a law enforcement agency. He was court-martialed for disobeying movement orders.

We’ll all have to wait and see if anyone does follow through and present a law enforcement agency with credible evidence of forgery. That could launch a grand jury investigation. If the experts are right, there should be enought there to issue indictments.


71 posted on 07/18/2011 12:55:47 PM PDT by jh4freedom
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To: Vintage Freeper
Fifty-six men sat down and drafted a list of grievances that led to their decision to declare independence. There was no army, no navy, and no military involvement at all.

You are irreconcilably ignorant, perhaps suffering from a public school education. Look up Lexington and Concord (the events at which occurred more than a year before the Declaration).

ML/NJ

72 posted on 07/18/2011 12:56:41 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: Tex-Con-Man
No body cares. This is hopeless. Give it up and concentrate on the issues.

Yes, we can't possibly hope to beat the British. You would have saved General Washington a lot of trouble. Thank you Sunshine Patriot.

73 posted on 07/18/2011 1:04:48 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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To: jh4freedom
The Hawai’i State Health Department recently complied with a request by President Barack Obama for certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth, which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “long form” birth certificate. “We hope that issuing certified copies of the original Certificate of Live Birth to President Obama.....

There is no proof that the document put on the White House web site is the document provided by the State of Hawaii to Obama. The original was given to Barack Obama and the document placed on the white house web site has been declared a fraud by literally dozens of document and software experts.

There is a chain of custody problem here and the evidence points to the fact that the document on the White House web site has been tampered with.

74 posted on 07/18/2011 1:06:00 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o)
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To: MWS
At the end of the day, people believe what they want to believe and the majority of people don’t WANT to believe that their president is illegitimate, any more than the Germans back in the 1930s wanted to believe that their rulers were genocidal monsters.

Amusing Juxtaposition. Hitler was born in Austria, and He wasn't a "natural born citizen" of Germany either. (smile) He was challenged on his "Germaness" but they let him stay in office, though he really wasn't eligibile. We all see how THAT turned out.

75 posted on 07/18/2011 1:09:53 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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To: Gena Bukin
Many FReepers on both sides of this issue have simply moved on. If you look at the eligibility threads (which seem to be fewer and fewer in number each week) it's more or less the same people posting more or less the same comments.

The issue is dead.

And yet here you are! It would be helpful to all if YOU thought it was deader than you apparently do.

76 posted on 07/18/2011 1:18:56 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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To: Grut
Before we get too excited over this, could we have some other BCs from the same time and place checked for non-matching letters? It's possible that, for instance, SOP was for the first part of the form to be filled in in anticipation of the birth and the second part later, on a different machine. I'm not saying it's so, but we need to be able to say that it's not so.

That is an excellent point! If we should happen to discover that other documents have the same sort of type face peculiarities, then we have to posit a different explanation. For the problems.

There is still going to have to be a better explanation for THIS TYPEFACE PROBLEM. What kind of type face renders years later as a binary bitmap of one pixel size, switches to color and a pixel size 4 times larger, (Note pixels in circles) then switches back to a binary bitmap of the smaller pixel size for the remainer? Neat trick that. (for a typeface.) Example->

I guess what I am saying is, you have an excellent point, but even if true, it won't explain the above problem. The above problem in my mind, can only be explained by copying source images of different resolution and bit depth, and pasting them onto a high resolution destination surface. (In Memory or on the Graphics card.)

77 posted on 07/18/2011 1:32:38 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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To: opentalk
Seems some Hawaii officials are complicit in this. Now they have to cover their own backs.

I speculate that the document is ENTIRELY the product of the Department of Health in Hawaii. I believe they created a New Birth Ceritificate for Barry under a judge's order.

I believe Barry was a adopted at some point in his life.

78 posted on 07/18/2011 1:35:25 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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To: jh4freedom
To the best of my knowledge, only four people have seen the original, long form, vault copy, birth certificate over the last 50 years: two Hawaii Directors of Health, the current Registrar of Vital Statistics for the state of Hawaii and whoever the clerk was who made the two hard copy photocopies of the original.

Presuming that what is being shown *IS* the original. I'm pretty sure that Barry's Kindergarten Administrators saw his original. Whether it looks like what he has now is another story.

79 posted on 07/18/2011 1:39:46 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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To: jh4freedom
The Reader’s Digest Version is that whatever the state of Hawaii says is an authentic birth record for their state which carries the state Seal and an authentification statement from an authorized representative of the state is “self-authenticating” in any Court of Law. The same would be true before any committee of Congress or in a Grand Jury proceeding.

That is an EXCELLENT POINT! Since the document specifically STATES that it is not authenticated, then it is worthless as evidence. In order for it to qualify as Evidence, it MUST have an authentication statement declaring it to be a "True and Correct copy of the Original Record."

The fact that it does not even claim to be a copy of the original, proves it cannot be used as evidence. Good Job pointing that out jh4freedom!

80 posted on 07/18/2011 1:49:04 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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To: wintertime
I have noticed a distinctly different trend in the afterbrither responses recently. They no longer even attempt to defend the various Obama “birth certificates” as being legitimate.

What would you have "afterbirthers" do? In one thread like this, a birther posted a link to an archive of scanned documents that demonstrated, he said, what real scans should look like. In about 5 minutes, I found letter pairs on one single page in that archive that were every bit as different as the 'R's on this birth certificate. He said, basically, "No they're not."

The other day I pointed out that you can see exactly the same kind of kerning on the Nordyke BC as birthers claim as evidence on the Obama BC. The response? "No, you can't."

It gets a little tiresome pointing out facts to people who refuse to acknowledge them. There are some legitimate points to raise about the meaning of "natural born citizen" and about exactly why the Obama PDF has the artifacts it does, and a handful of birthers who are able to discuss those without calling people "Obot afterbirthers." But is it any wonder people have started ignoring the ones who can't?

81 posted on 07/18/2011 1:56:31 PM PDT by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: Vintage Freeper

Do we really want the military asking questions before taking orders?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, we do especially when there is very good reason to suspect the occupant of White House is a usurper in the post of Commander in Chief and is giving ILLEGAL and INVALID orders to the troops!

It’s called defending the Constitution from domestic enemies. It is called upholding the military honor code.

Usurpers post forgeries. Real presidents would be **HONORED** to promptly prove with the best evidence that they are, indeed, natural born citizens. They would be especially pleased to do this for a member of the military.

Usurpers have multiple social security numbers and use the social security number of a dead man. Real, natural born citizens, have no valid reason to do that.


82 posted on 07/18/2011 1:57:18 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: Tex-Con-Man
And since I still consider birtherism to be a political threat to advancing conservatism, I'll continue to comment when the inspiration strikes.

My post upthread reflected the seriousness with which I hold this subject...it was a joke...

As are most of your comments and insights. The Threat to conservatism is those among us who tell people to "shut up" without hearing them out. No one would be paying any attention to this issue had it been dealt with forthrightly. It is the continuous use of deception and the invoking of legal technicalities to explain away something simple which ought not require explanation. You may have forgotten, but a man went to prison because the "precedent" didn't see fit to produce his document several years ago.

It was Obama's duty to put this issue to rest years ago. It was his duty to the troops who need to not wonder if their leader is illegitimate. It was his duty to the Nation, so we could concentrate on more important things. It was so simple and costless that it should have never been a matter of consequence, yet for some reason the man has refused to deal with it forthrightly. This is the behavior of a man with something to hide.

And you abet him.

83 posted on 07/18/2011 1:57:47 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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To: P-Marlowe

There is no proof that the document put on the White House web site is the document provided by the State of Hawaii to Obama. The original was given to Barack Obama and the document placed on the white house web site has been declared a fraud by literally dozens of document and software experts.

There is a chain of custody problem here and the evidence points to the fact that the document on the White House web site has been tampered with.

“Chain of custody” is as irrelevant as the pdf. image.
If a court or a congressional committee wanted to investigate this issue, they would order a hard copy of the birth record directly from the state of Hawaii. They wouldn’t use internet posted scans or even Obama’s copies.
Hawaii laws allow for a copy of a confidential birth record to be issued to: “a person whose right to examine or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction.” (Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18(b)(9)

The Director of Health for the state of Hawaii holds regular press briefings. Any member of the media can ask her if there is any difference in data between the document she released and what is on the White House web site.
The information from a birth record that is relevant to Article II, Section 1 eligibility is name, date of birth and place of birth. The other constitutional requirement is 14 years residence in the US. That’s not found on a birth certificate.

In 2008 and 2009, the previous Director of Health issued two media releases concerning the Obama birth record:
STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO October 31, 2008
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.”

STATEMENT BY HEALTH DIRECTOR CHIYOME FUKINO, M.D. 7/27/09
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”

And the previous Governor of Hawaii also made a statement on May 2, 2010:
“You know, during the campaign of 2008, I was actually in the mainland campaigning for Sen. McCain. This issue kept coming up so much in the campaign, and again I think it’s one of those issues that is simply a distraction from the more critical issues that are facing the country. And so I had my health director, who is a physician by background, go personally view the birth certificate in the birth records of the Department of Health, and we issued a news release at that time saying that the president was, in fact, born at Kapi’olani Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. And that’s just a fact. And yet people continue to call up and e-mail and want to make it an issue. And I think it’s, again, a horrible distraction for the country by those people who continue this. ... It’s been established. He was born here.”
—Governor Linda Lingle


84 posted on 07/18/2011 2:00:38 PM PDT by jh4freedom
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To: jh4freedom
We’ll all have to wait and see if anyone does follow through and present a law enforcement agency with credible evidence of forgery. That could launch a grand jury investigation. If the experts are right, there should be enought there to issue indictments.

To the President? Them and what Army? The Head of the FBI would be quaking in his boots if he even THOUGHT he would be directed to arrest a President. Who else you got?

This is a political issue now, and it can only be solved politically. Congress would have to impeach. Before they would do that, they would have to be convinced. Before they could be convinced, they have to COMPREHEND the crime. Before they could comprehend the crime they have to be EDUCATED about the Difference between Presidential Qualifications and This guy that's gotten away with it.

More like everyone will just foot drag till the election because they DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH IT."

85 posted on 07/18/2011 2:04:56 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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To: Vintage Freeper
Should the military be taking sides in issues or debates between the legislature, executive and judicial branches of government? Isn't that how military juntas or military dictators come to power?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

“Sides”? “Sides”? You have me confused with YOUR strawman creation. Go ask him!

So you won't confuse me with YOUR strawman creation, ***MY** position is that the very highest military should seek peaceful and legal **certifiable** clarification of Obama identity and natural born citizenship from the congress and the courts. Do we even know if the man is a citizen at all?

When did IGNORING, upholding, and supporting forgeries, identity theft, social security number fraud, usurpation of the post of Commander in Chief, and election scamming become part of the military code of honor? Is **this** what they teach in our military academies? UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Is **this** how they look out for the troops serving under them? Huh?

Maybe someone can explain to me why these guys don't shrivel in shame when saluting the fraud that steps off Air Force One? Why doesn't lightning strike when they meet with the families of our brave, highly trained, competent, and HONORABLE military men and women?

86 posted on 07/18/2011 2:07:47 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: jh4freedom
Well! Gee!.....Since it is soooooooo straight forward, why did Obama post FORGERIES???

Huh?

87 posted on 07/18/2011 2:10:47 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: jh4freedom
Don't you get weary defending the indefensible?

If Obama is a natural born citizen why on earth would he post FORGERIES???

Unbelievable that you can defend that!

88 posted on 07/18/2011 2:12:27 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: DiogenesLamp

That is an EXCELLENT POINT! Since the document specifically STATES that it is not authenticated, then it is worthless as evidence. In order for it to qualify as Evidence, it MUST have an authentication statement declaring it to be a “True and Correct copy of the Original Record.”

The fact that it does not even claim to be a copy of the original, proves it cannot be used as evidence. Good Job pointing that out jh4freedom!

Here’s what the Hawaii state Director of Health said about the HARD copies of the long form that they issued to Zero:
“We hope that issuing certified copies of the original Certificate of Live Birth to President Obama will end the numerous inquiries related to his birth in Hawai’i,

“I have seen the original records filed at the Department of Health and attest to the authenticity of the certified copies the department provided to the President that further prove the fact that he was born in Hawai’i.”

“On April 25, 2011, pursuant to President Obama’s request, Director Fuddy personally witnessed the copying of the original Certificate of Live Birth and attested to the authenticity of the two copies. Dr. Alvin Onaka, the State Registrar, certified the copies.”
Any court of law or congressional committee wouldn’t use digital scans of the document, they would order brand spanking new hard copies directly from the state of Hawaii.
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/News_Release_Birth_Certificate_042711.pdf


89 posted on 07/18/2011 2:14:49 PM PDT by jh4freedom
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
Here you are attempting to explain away the inexplicable!

FACT: IT IS A SIMPLE MATTER TO PROVE ONE”S NATURAL BORN CITIZENSHIP IN A PROMPT AND STRAIGHT FORWARD MANNER USING THE VERY BEST EVIDENCE! ( Yeah! I am shouting!)

Obama has never done that. Instead he posted crap and the afterbirthers eat it up.

90 posted on 07/18/2011 2:17:26 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
I found letter pairs on one single page in that archive that were every bit as different as the 'R's on this birth certificate. He said, basically, "No they're not."

You regard the changes as distinct enough to equal the peculiarities on Obama's document, he doesn't. For me, they are just on the edge of going either way. Not so much the two versions of the letter "t" in the word "Student." They are so distinctly different that I can't conceive of them being produced by different strikes of the same hammer.

Apart from that, Have a go at explaining how resolution and bit depth can change from one character to another in the following example.

It gets a little tiresome pointing out facts to people who refuse to acknowledge them.

I know exactly what you mean.

There are some legitimate points to raise about the meaning of "natural born citizen" and about exactly why the Obama PDF has the artifacts it does, and a handful of birthers who are able to discuss those without calling people "Obot afterbirthers."

I try to give what I get. Civility gets reciprocity. (Maybe with a little "needling." I'm only human. :) )

91 posted on 07/18/2011 2:18:46 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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To: jh4freedom
My sincerest apologies. I did not read the first sentence. I just that Fukino blather and lost it.
92 posted on 07/18/2011 2:19:17 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: jh4freedom

One question:

Has ANYONE in any official capacity in the State of Hawaii certified that the PDF document posted on the White House website purporting to be Barack Obama’s long form birth certificate is, in fact, an EXACT COPY of the document on file in the Official records of the State of Hawaii?


93 posted on 07/18/2011 2:21:45 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o)
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To: jh4freedom
Here’s what the Hawaii state Director of Health said about the HARD copies of the long form that they issued to Zero: “We hope that issuing certified copies of the original Certificate of Live Birth to President Obama will end the numerous inquiries related to his birth in Hawai’i,

“I have seen the original records filed at the Department of Health and attest to the authenticity of the certified copies the department provided to the President that further prove the fact that he was born in Hawai’i.”

“On April 25, 2011, pursuant to President Obama’s request, Director Fuddy personally witnessed the copying of the original Certificate of Live Birth and attested to the authenticity of the two copies. Dr. Alvin Onaka, the State Registrar, certified the copies.” Any court of law or congressional committee wouldn’t use digital scans of the document, they would order brand spanking new hard copies directly from the state of Hawaii. http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-

Yeah yeah yeah. Her act of piety would be more convincing if she put those words on the document under the states seal instead of affirming that it is just an "abstract of the record." Public pronouncements are not perjury.

The actions of the Hawaii DOH belie their words.

94 posted on 07/18/2011 2:31:50 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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To: DiogenesLamp
I try to give what I get. Civility gets reciprocity.

Apparently, and I appreciate it.

Have a go at explaining how resolution and bit depth can change from one character to another in the following example.

As I said in the other topic, I don't really know. I don't know what scanner they used, what format they scanned it at or at what resolution, or how they converted it to PDF. I've read that the conversion and optimization process, possibly including OCR, can produce effects like that. And I've seen the birth certificate look very different on my screen, depending on what software I open it in. So I'm not ready to join you in saying that this example is clearcut evidence of a cut-and-paste job, especially given the workflow that theory requires me to accept.

You regard the changes as distinct enough to equal the peculiarities on Obama's document, he doesn't.

Not exactly. I point out that the changes are distinct enough to equal the peculiarities on Obama's document, and he goes "La la la I can't hear you."

95 posted on 07/18/2011 2:33:15 PM PDT by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
What would you have “afterbirthers” do?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Admit the following:

FACT: It is a simple matter to promptly prove with the best **certified** and **certifiable** evidence that one is a natural born citizen.

FACT: Obama has never done that. He has posted forgeries.

96 posted on 07/18/2011 2:38:55 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

Don’t you get weary defending the indefensible?
If Obama is a natural born citizen why on earth would he post FORGERIES???

Unbelievable that you can defend that!

I try to post facts. I’ll be impressed when there is an indictment for forgery.

I’ll leave it to the courts and to congress to prosecute or defend, as they might.

I’m a firm believer in the old saying: “If you strike the King, you must kill him.” “King” Barry is not “killed” by faulty research, rumor or innuendo, in fact he is strengthened by every piece of unsubstantiated gossip or flawed findings that is on the internet.

Haven’t you noticed that Zero keeps the birther issue alive because it helps him with his leftist base? The Zero reelection campaign is selling long form birth certificate images on mugs and tee shirts.


97 posted on 07/18/2011 2:39:20 PM PDT by jh4freedom
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To: wintertime
FACT: IT IS A SIMPLE MATTER TO PROVE ONE”S NATURAL BORN CITIZENSHIP IN A PROMPT AND STRAIGHT FORWARD MANNER USING THE VERY BEST EVIDENCE! ( Yeah! I am shouting!)

EXACTLY. It is the continuous resort to dishonest and obfuscatory methods that are constantly raising the ire of those of us who do not wish to tolerate such games.

This is a simple issue. If you are legit, produce proof. Not "this piece of paper is just as good", but REAL PROOF. And do it without delay!

The only thing worse than the Con-Man is the ENABLERS of the Con-man.

98 posted on 07/18/2011 2:47:03 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
As I said in the other topic, I don't really know.

Was that you I responded to on the other thread? I thought it was Jh4freedom. As near as I can tell, you two are among the more civil of the non-birthers.

Regarding OCR, (Optical character recognition), I cannot comprehend how something which is designed to recognize characters (a useless function when making a copy of something) should alter the characters. OCR was originally developed to convert scanned images of text into ASCII text. Why it would want to create and then tamper with color-bit-mapped output characters makes no sense.

I've read the theory that some software relies on the creation of "tokens" which are represented by the best example of the Character. If it should be that OCR decided to manipulate the data, consistency would require that it do the same with every upper case "R" on the document. All of them should be represented by a 4 times lower resolution pixel map with a bit depth of at least 8. (256 distinct levels of brightness) I will quickly examine the document for another upper case "R." (Imagine Jeapordy music playing now. :) )

There is another capital "R" in the second iteration of the word "BARACK" later in the document. It is distinctly different from the peculiar "R" in the first iteration of "BARACK." It shows no signs of being a different resolution or bit depth.

Either the OCR didn't recognize it as the same character, or it didn't behave consistently. If there *IS* a theory of software that explains this, I would like to hear it.

99 posted on 07/18/2011 3:07:41 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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To: jh4freedom
Haven’t you noticed that Zero keeps the birther issue alive because it helps him with his leftist base? The Zero reelection campaign is selling long form birth certificate images on mugs and tee shirts.

Yes, it's all part of a clever plan by a nitwit who can't do anything (else) right.

100 posted on 07/18/2011 3:11:11 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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