Posted on 07/26/2012 9:21:14 AM PDT by Greg Swann
It's vampire versus vampire at the National Review. In response to President Obama's "you didn't build that" attack on individual initiative, a New Hampshire contractor insisted that he did so build his business. Except, as Think Progress reports, the guy is a rent-seeker. He built his business by the sweat of the tax-payer's brow in the form of government-subsidized loans, grants and contracts.
The Think Progress article is disgusting, and the comments are worse, but the National Review piece isn't much better:
This man pays taxes that support this government endeavor (and many others he does not benefit from),That would be the logical fallacy Two Wrongs Make A Right.
and he is operating in a business environment in which all his competitors have access to government funds.And that is the logical fallacy Tu Quoque.
This is me in Man Alive!:
The paths to error are infinite, but two landmarks I have learned to rely on, in listening to people trying to justify their evil actions, are the logical fallacies Tu Quoque and Two Wrongs Make A Right. Tu Quoque is Latin. It means, “You do it, too.” When you catch your teenager swiping a beer, the pre-fabricated rationale will surely be, “Well, you drink, why can’t I?!?” And you were probably very young when you first heard some little proto-brute justifying his vengeance by bellowing, “Well, he hit me first!” -- ergo, two wrongs make a right. You should probably be on your guard against any statement that starts with a “well” and ends with an exclamation point. That particular verbal construction seems to fit very comfortably in the mouths of liars and thugs. But when you hear those two logical fallacies being deployed in tandem, what you are hearing, almost certainly, is a cunningly-crafted rationalization of an abominable injustice.This is the comment I left to the atrocious argument at National Review:
Taking money from the government in any form is welfare -- receiving stolen funds.That was a conversation stopper. I shouldn't complain, though. Very often, when I leave comments at conservative web sites, they never show up at all.You can't avoid using government roads; the state is a coercive monopoly on roads and other so-called "public services."
You definitely can avoid taking money that has been stolen from innocent tax-payers.
When you take that money, no matter how you rationalize it, you are a moocher, a looter, a thug, a welfare slave.
This is obvious, no need to tap-dance around it.
Are you bursting with the need to say, "Yeah, but..."? Let me do it for you:
"Yeah, but surely I'm entitled to get something back from my taxes." The word 'entitled' almost always denotes welfare-slavery, but it means nothing in a context where you do not have a legally-enforceable contract. Your money was stolen from you, yes. But once it was, it became part of a vast pool of stolen funds, and none of that money is yours. When you presume to claim some of it, you are making yourself complicit in the slavery of innocent people whose sole crime was working to provide for themselves and their loved ones.
"Yeah, but if I don't take that money, somebody else will." If so, the people who take it will have soiled themselves. What benefit to you self-adoration will you realize by soiling your self?
"Yeah, but just because I built my business with coerced 'investments,' that doesn't make me the bad guy!" Yes, it does. There is no way to tap-dance around theft.
In truth, most small-businesses don't take government money. The owners of those firms are the victims of the state's countless intrusions, and they persevere gamely while bearing unbearable parasitic burdens. They did build their businesses themselves, with no stolen funds or rent-seeking favors, and they have every right to be proud of themselves. But by giving rent-seekers cover -- by permitting tax-looting thugs to call themselves business-people -- they arm their own enemies.
Here is a sign I made for honest entrepreneurs:
I would love to see this posted prominently in every place of business in America. If you are not the crook, the leech, the moocher that the president of the United States says you are, tell it to the world -- starting with your customers.
And if you have taken tax money in the past? If you have campaigned for competition-killing laws? Go forth and sin no more. You were wrong, but now you know you were wrong. The past cannot be changed, but the future can. If you continue to try to live as a looter, you will know without doubt what you are -- and so will everyone else. When your neighbors and competitors finally get up the nerve to celebrate their own virtue, they will have no trouble at all expressing contempt for your vice.
And in the battle of vampire versus vampire, scrupulous honesty slays every demon.
So at what point do our congressmen do their job and eliminate job killing regulations and taxes?
There are NO government roads — there are only taxpayer funded roads, so feel free to use them at will. You paid for ‘em!
So when government takes money away from the private sector to spend, the private sector should shut down.
Well, that would sure bring things to a head but I don’t think the socialists would be bothered, they’d just take over it all willingly.
It was sickening. It paid well but it felt wrong AND I was always worried that if the hammer came down it wouldn't be the Union Goons or the Gub'ment clowns to get hit. It would be us independents.
We quit over 10 years ago and you couldn't get me back in it at the point of a gun. Bastards everyone of them that engage in that crapola!
Thank you. This is my view.
Avoid the government every way you can and your life will be cleaner and simpler even if it means you give up a dollar your accountant might have squeezed from a transaction.
> So at what point do our congressmen do their job and eliminate job killing regulations and taxes?
Do you expect the hogs feeding at the trough to raise any objections? When you do business only with people who don’t play patty-cake with the state — and when you make that stand known — then you’ll get some traction.
Two points:
“’Well, he hit me first!’ — ergo, two wrongs make a right.” If someone really did get hit first and they defended themselves, that’s not two wrongs. Surprised to see that kind of libthink in an otherwise decent article.
Also, accepting government contracts for proper government functions and getting paid for doing the agreed upon work is not mooching. Now, a huge aount of govt work is not proper (within the scope of legit government work), so this one isn’t as bad.
Another reason to make Federal and State government as small as possible.
You won’t get any argument from me.
Now I’ll start something...
Social security is the same. People say they were forced to pay in and now they want theirs. It doesn’t matter to them that their money was already spent. That they are enslaving those still working by ever increasing amounts to make good on promises those working people never made. And for those who say well the government shouldn’t have spent the money I ask what generation was it exactly that voted in the politicians that did spend it and continued electing them? People love “free” stuff...
Now I’ll go hide...
“When you take that money, no matter how you rationalize it, you are a moocher, a looter, a thug, a welfare slave.” And the sign says, “...contracts”.
Let me get this straight. So when a soldier, sailor, marine or airman signs a contract to defend this country with his life, he’s a looter, thug or welfare slave? If that’s the case you’re worse than that because your gaining the benefit of his patriotism and sacrifice by doing nothing. Unless defense of Nation (including you) is a “public service” from which you benefit by paying taxes.
If you’ve been paying attention, it is not our representatives writing and implementing laws and regulations.
I would like to point out that successful business do not TAKE money from the government. That government loan may have financed a new factory or expansion. More employees, more business, more TAX REVENUE to the many governments from the business profits AND the employee taxes.
Also the “TAKEN” money has been paid back and with interest, and the revenue still flows to the governmentS.
Solyndra (just one example) is the poster child for TAKEN money with NOT a dime returned.
Welfare money TAKEN from the government is truly taken, supplied from taxpayers and NEVER paid back.
I call it money USED, not money “taken”, because it is used and re-paid.
Those taxes and regulations put a good many people on welfare. What do you think they will do with your cunning plan of tossing them out in the street with no options? They’ll vote democrat.
Start eliminating the job killing regulators and you will create jobs. You just might be surprised at how many choose work over freebies. I saw it happen when John Engler became governor here in Michigan. The economy improved and welfare rolls shrank.
Plenty of fine FReepers have lost their jobs in recent years too. I guess they’re just lazy parasites. /s
> I call it money USED, not money “taken”, because it is used and re-paid.
That’s what I’m going to call it when I borrow your car to go to Vegas this weekend.
Theft cannot ever be rationalized. When you make Marxist arguments, you serve Marxist ends.
> There are NO government roads — there are only taxpayer funded roads, so feel free to use them at will.
I think you should put up “No Trespassing” signs on your share.
If some particular person does not own and defend real property, then no one owns it — which simply means that the mafia of superior firepower controls it. To make any other claim is false to obvious fact.
> We quit over 10 years ago and you couldn’t get me back in it at the point of a gun. Bastards everyone of them that engage in that crapola!
Good on ya. I think you would help your neighbors a lot by sharing your policy and your reasons for it with them.
Yep. Cut taxes to starve the monster; and the monster will shrink.
No other way to do it. The monster always wants more, the monster wants to be fed more and more and screams when food is withheld.
A hoard of locusts will keep eating until everything is destroyed; the hoard keeps eating and multiplies.
IMPACT FEES are TAXES levied against new businesses specifically when new factories, office buildings, etc.. are built. Those IMPACT FEES which are exhorbitant in nature, pay for road, sewer, electrical upgrades in the communities in which those businesses are established, and often pay for parks, school upgrades, and yes - government buildings.
I've done two busines start-ups, one a Consulting company, another an ISP. The Consulting company I paid excessive taxes of over 50% as a small business owner. At no time did the Government do as Obama likes to say and come along and "partner up" with me, or find ways to help me out.
Rather, at every opportunity, the Government stuck its hands in my pockets and stripped out as much money as they could through some new form of taxation or another. Fax taxes? Yep, we had to pay 'em. Telecommunications taxes? Paid 'em in the tens of thousands. Office lease taxes? Yep, paid 'em. Paid lease taxes on equipment we used to manage the business and paid tens of thousands in quarterly taxes to the State and Fed's based on projected earnings. If one of those payments was late, the State knocked on my door. When I over-paid, it took them 6 months to refund me.
And that was just the Consulting business, and I haven't even touched on the Unemployment Insurance taxes I had to pay in addition to salaries, health care benefits, employee expenses, yadda yadda yadda.
When I sold off my consulting practice in 1993 after 5 years in operation, I figured the damn' Government made more money off my efforts in all taxes, regulations, etc.. than I made for myself. With 8 employees who averaged making $50k/year (in those days, that was a very good salary) I made less than $100k/year for my efforts and I worked 12+ hours a day, often 7 days a week.
When I was an Internet Service Provider from 1995 - 1997, I had 22 employees, office space of about 3,000 SF (including my "data center") and again, not ONE TIME did the Government come along and ask how they could "help me." Again, they stuck their hands out at every opportunity to take more and more money from me. The taxes I paid as a small computer consulting company paled in comparison to what I paid as an ISP with a large dial-up business and web hosting service. I had to pay the village that I established my business in YEARLY IMPACT FEES which were calculated by the number of employees I had, to pay for roads, schools, police, fire, etc.. That was ON TOP of the Income and Small Business taxes I paid, taxes for employees, lease taxes, etc.. etc.. etc..
In two cases where I started up companies, the Government made more off of me than I made for MYSELF. The amount of taxation and regulation at that time was staggering, I can't imagine how much worse it is now.
I'm just so sick and f'ing tired of the "you didn't build that, someone else did" bullshit I could puke. We businesses PAY TAXES OUR OUR BACKSIDES at ever level - Federal, State, County and local municipality for the 'privilidge' of creating a business.
When I got out of the ISP business in 1997 it was the happiest day of my life. I no longer work for myself - too many damn' headaches and too many Government taxing bodies sticking their hands in my pockets. I've worked for someone else since (typically large corporations) and let THEM have the headaches.
I guess in my own way, I've "gone Galt." I've learned how to shelter my income, take advantage of every tax loophole I could find, and consume as little as possible. The day this piece of sh*t Obama got elected, I said I wasn't going to buy a single new item (save for food and clothes for the family) because I didn't want the economy to do well under his SOCIALIST / MARXIST economic policies. With rare exception, I've held to that.
The computer I'm on is 6 years old, thankfully it still does all I need. My cars are 5 and 10 years old respectively. When our dishwasher broke and it cost more to repair it than buy new, I started doing the dishes myself (my wife LOVES that!) rather than buy a new one. When something breaks in our home, if I can't fix it - we do without because we're NOT replacing it.
I'm just so outraged at this "You didn't build that, someone else did!" that I even signed up to help the Romney campaign and wrote a big fat check. Not that Romney's my favorite candidate - he was barely above Ron Paul (dead last) on my list. But I'm just so sick and f'ing tired of this ASSH*LE in the White House telling his supporters he's going to take from ME to give to THEM, so they can continue to live off the fruits of MY labors rather than get off their fat, lazy, druggie, government cheese eating asses and take care of themselves that I've had enough.
I swear to almighty God if Obama gets re-elected, I'm quitting my job, selling all I have, moving what's left of my on-shore money over-seas and moving to the lowest tax state I can find. I'll find a minimum wage job and become a burden to the system first, before this jerk in the White House gets another thin dime from me. F' him.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.