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Why Do Federal Agencies Need 1 Billion Rounds Of Ammo, Delivered Before Dec 31 2012
Ammoland ^ | August. 21, 2012 | Dan Roberts

Posted on 08/21/2012 4:20:19 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY

Washington, DC --(Ammoland.com)- ” I’m from the Government and Im here to help”, one of the most simultaneously laughable and also frightening jokes made about the utter ineptitude and often down right vicious mindset that populates far to much of the Federal Leviathan.

Much has been made over the last month or so about the 6,000 rounds of ammunition Aurora Colorado Shooter James Holmes had acquired, with breathless commentary from the know nothing usual suspects in the media and political circles about how “no one needs that much ammunition unless they are up to something “. A patently ridiculous idea that reveals only the ignorance of those that would make such comments, since 6,000 rounds of ammunition is hardly a large quantity, something I wrote about previously.

Forgetting for a moment the numerous perfectly lawful and logical reasons for a Citizen to have that much ammunition, and indeed an exponentially greater amount, while not harboring any evil intent, if we accept the exhortations that owning or possessing several thousand rounds of ammunition is to be treated as some sort of “warning sign” or “red flag” indicator of nefarious intentions at some future point, then the unasked question, the gargantuan elephant in the room that no one is talking about is;

What exactly are the future intentions of the myriad of Federal Government “Alphabet Agencies” and their collective purchase orders and bids for fulfillment to acquire 1 BILLION rounds of anti personal ammunition for delivery no later then December 31st 2012?

There are literally dozens of Federal Agencies that have armed agents and, shockingly enough, their own SWAT Teams, while having little, if any connection to a traditional Law Enforcement role.

(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...


TOPICS: Politics
KEYWORDS: ammo; govtammo
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1 posted on 08/21/2012 4:20:25 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
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To: Free ThinkerNY

They know that in the future bullets will be worth more than dollars.
When budget cuts come they will sell the bullets for a big profit:)


2 posted on 08/21/2012 4:25:48 PM PDT by jonose
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To: Free ThinkerNY
What exactly are the future intentions of the myriad of Federal Government “Alphabet Agencies” and their collective purchase orders and bids for fulfillment to acquire 1 BILLION rounds of anti personal ammunition for delivery no later then December 31st 2012?

Wow, that's enough ammo to go up against a military....

3 posted on 08/21/2012 4:26:22 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: jonose
They know that in the future bullets will be worth more than dollars. When budget cuts come they will sell the bullets for a big profit:)

Hey, those cartridges are mine!

John Q. Public.

4 posted on 08/21/2012 4:28:55 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

nothing will happen...just vote obamey..../sarcasm/


5 posted on 08/21/2012 4:32:38 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Free ThinkerNY

January 1st, 2013, the alien invasion begins.


6 posted on 08/21/2012 4:33:38 PM PDT by PhxTM06
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To: Free ThinkerNY

He won't go quietly, you know.

7 posted on 08/21/2012 4:36:54 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Roger Taney? Not a bad Chief Justice. John Roberts? A really awful Chief Justice.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Obama’s ghetto military?


8 posted on 08/21/2012 4:39:08 PM PDT by cradle of freedom (Long live the Republic !)
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To: jonose

What about all those track-hoes and bulldozers that they ordered up for those shovel-ready jobs that wern’t there?


9 posted on 08/21/2012 4:47:29 PM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again.")
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To: EGPWS
Wow, that's enough ammo to go up against a military....

During the Iraq war, the US used 70M rounds per year.

10 posted on 08/21/2012 4:50:53 PM PDT by IamConservative (Well done is better than well said. - Ben Franklin)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Is there any proof of these large numbers? It seems they get larger at every report.


11 posted on 08/21/2012 4:50:53 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: Free ThinkerNY

"May I have ten thousand marbles please?"

12 posted on 08/21/2012 4:52:33 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Free ThinkerNY

To shoot every US citizen three times over?


13 posted on 08/21/2012 4:53:33 PM PDT by 353FMG (And Congress sit silently on their hands.)
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To: the_Watchman

That’s really the fundamental question. It’s too easy to get caught up in these sensational stories.


14 posted on 08/21/2012 4:55:38 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: fella

For digging mass graves?

Sorry for being so morbid — I am an old man who saw many bad things in my youth.


15 posted on 08/21/2012 4:57:45 PM PDT by 353FMG (And Congress sit silently on their hands.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

A certain 99 year contract may be nearing it’s end, maybe...


16 posted on 08/21/2012 5:02:21 PM PDT by BuddaBudd (F U B O)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Everyone knows you use hollow point ammunition for training and practice when other people are paying the bills.


17 posted on 08/21/2012 5:04:12 PM PDT by andyk (Go Juan Pablo!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
Why Do Federal Agencies Need 1 Billion Rounds Of Ammo, Delivered Before Dec 31 2012

I knew as soon as I ordered 999 million rounds...........

18 posted on 08/21/2012 5:07:53 PM PDT by Starstruck (Only the wealthy and the poor can afford socialism)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Federal Auditor: 2,527 DHS Employees and Co-Conspirators Convicted of Crimes
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2921140/posts


19 posted on 08/21/2012 5:24:10 PM PDT by familyop (Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: 353FMG
"To shoot every US citizen three times over?"

That's only if the citizens aren't shooting back.

20 posted on 08/21/2012 5:29:56 PM PDT by Desron13
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To: the_Watchman

“”rounds of anti personal ammunition””


Sigh.... “anti-personnel ammunition” would be the correct spelling, but the terminology is still ridiculous from a “gunblog”. If a left wing idiot made the same statement there would be plenty of scorn heaped upon them by FReepers.

Bulk purchasing by government agencies saves taxpayer money and guarantees pricing/availability for years.

The NRA obviously thinks this is conspiratorial crap -

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2012/federal-law-enforcement-agencies-buy-ammunition.aspx

Last paragraph from the NRA:

“””As most gun owners will agree, skepticism of government is healthy. But today, there are more than enough actual threats to the Second Amendment to keep gun owners busy. With two key Supreme Court decisions hanging by a one-vote margin, the Justice Department deeply involved in a cover-up of a disastrous Mexican gun smuggling operation, and President Obama touting a ban on popular semi-automatic firearms, there is no need to invent additional threats to our rights.”””

Reply from a GOP Congress critter’s office -

http://westmoreland.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=642&Itemid=372


We can fairly question the need for some of these departments to have SWAT teams and I certainly do. However, that is a seperate issue from ammo purchasing via long term contracts. All Federal agencies have criminal investigator positions (Office of Inspector General) who have arrest powers under Federal law and therefore are considered job series 1811 (Federal Agents). All Federal agencies have armed security forces that protect official buildings and other sensitive locations. These individuals all qualify quarterly with their duty weapons and that adds up quickly. Even the agencies that subcontract their armed security usually supply the ammunition to the “contractors” for the required qualifications.

There are many other issues that I am far more concerned about than this. Namely the 16T in federal debt they are passing on to my children.


21 posted on 08/21/2012 5:35:06 PM PDT by volunbeer (Don't worry America, our kids will pay for it!)
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To: IamConservative

If the military only used 70 million a year in a war, may I ask how many rounds per year are manufactured?


22 posted on 08/21/2012 5:35:36 PM PDT by Terry Mross (To all my relatives and former friends: Do not contact me if you still love obama.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

..just in case Obama cancels the election and we don’t like it.


23 posted on 08/21/2012 5:48:16 PM PDT by Banjoguy (The U.S. population are now the slaves of all taxing bodies in the country.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

..just in case Obama cancels the election and we don’t like it.


24 posted on 08/21/2012 5:48:54 PM PDT by Banjoguy (The U.S. population are now the slaves of all taxing bodies in the country.)
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To: volunbeer; Free ThinkerNY

Sigh indeed. This is what happens when someone who just started paying attention looks at a federal budget. Something to add to volunbeer’s comments: federal agencies (and state and municipal government employees) routinely make what look like outrageous purchases for the simple reason that if they don’t spend the money in their budget toward the end of the fiscal year, it gets “swept,” that is, taken back. So they stock up on things they think they will eventually need anyway in the unlikely event that they receive LESS money in next year’s budget. The federal fiscal year ends September 30. Go figure.


25 posted on 08/21/2012 5:49:08 PM PDT by La Lydia
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To: Free ThinkerNY

I had the same problem. It turns out the credit card bonus points don’t kick in until 500 million rounds. That’s gonna take up the whole rumpus room and then some.


26 posted on 08/21/2012 5:52:42 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Never ever trust militant homosexuals?
Never ever trust an undocumented president when he states we neen a civilian army as well armed as the military!


27 posted on 08/21/2012 5:52:52 PM PDT by Tigen (I shall raise you one .)
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To: fella
"What about all those track-hoes"

Are you talking about drug abusing rail road prostitutes? I gave up that stuff several months ago!


28 posted on 08/21/2012 5:53:39 PM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: andyk

Good police firearms instructors know that you qualify with what you carry. Every time. Good police firearms instructors know that numerous idiots will load their duty weapons with non-duty carry ammunition. Good police firearms instructors know that having the same duty ammunition on the shelves, in range bags, in magazines, and in the trunks of vehicles prevents common brainfarts (in my humble experience) where folks carry the wrong ammunition in a duty firearm. In 17 years I have seen duty weapons loaded with frangible ammunition, ball ammunition, reloads (true story), and other non-issued ammunition. As an armorer, I don’t want anyone shooting non-issued ammunition with different specs and performance. I can consistently predict maintenance needs for firearms kept in service for a decade even if they only fire 400 rounds a year or 5000+. Using the same ammunition allows the agency to track the lot numbers and identify any performance problems (recently there was a primer issue with a certain lot that led to failures to fire) with the exact same ammunition used for duty carry.

At bulk pricing in these numbers the cost of hollowpoint ammunition is not significantly higher than ball ammunition. Those are not my words... they are the words of one of the production supervisors for ATK - the busiest ammo plant in the world.


29 posted on 08/21/2012 5:55:19 PM PDT by volunbeer (Don't worry America, our kids will pay for it!)
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To: jonose
They know that in the future bullets will be worth more than dollars.

You are probably on to something there, the way they are printing and borrowing money.

M1 Money Stock (M1)

Velocity of MZM Money Stock (MZMV)

We are living in some fairly perilous times. Get prepared - precious coins and ammo.
30 posted on 08/21/2012 5:59:57 PM PDT by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Banjoguy
Or just in case Obama steals the election and the citizens don't like it.

If it is clear that Obama actually lost the election but that he is trying to carry out a putsch to stay in office, how many employees of those agencies would be willing to fire on their fellow citizens for his benefit? Some of them might--the more fanatical Democrats--but my guess is the majority of them would not. Washington was able to call up citizens to put down the Whiskey Rebellion, and Lincoln was able to get volunteers after the flag was fired on at Fort Sumter, but what kind of pretext would Obama be able to manufacture to get the rank-and-file of those federal agencies to shoot at people just because they had voted Republicans? I don't think he would be able to deputize a sufficient number of SEIU and AFL-CIO and OWS types to do the job on short notice.

31 posted on 08/21/2012 6:00:07 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Banjoguy

“..just in case Obama cancels the election and we don’t like it.”

I guess federal agencies and be preppers, too. It must be nice to have our tax dollars to pay for the prep.


32 posted on 08/21/2012 6:02:08 PM PDT by MikeSteelBe (Austrian Hitler was, as the Halfrican Hitler does.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Perhaps they believe in the Mayan prophesy and the end of civilization is on the horizon and they all want enough ammo to fight of millions of crazy people?


33 posted on 08/21/2012 6:05:16 PM PDT by Eye of Unk (OPSEC)
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To: Verginius Rufus

“I don’t think he would be able to deputize a sufficient number of SEIU and AFL-CIO and OWS types to do the job on short notice.”

Holder could deputize his New Black Pampers as US Marshals to take care of all of the Randy Weavers out there.


34 posted on 08/21/2012 6:05:45 PM PDT by MikeSteelBe (Austrian Hitler was, as the Halfrican Hitler does.)
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To: volunbeer

Well then I stand corrected.


35 posted on 08/21/2012 6:20:53 PM PDT by andyk (Go Juan Pablo!)
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To: volunbeer; the_Watchman; Cheerio
We can fairly question the need for some of these departments to have SWAT teams and I certainly do. However, that is a seperate issue from ammo purchasing via long term contracts.

If the government creates more and more swat teams, such as used by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and many other agencies, would they not demand more ammunition?

Did ya happen to notice government has now armed simple park rangers all over the country? Or the fact they have created armed divisions within all types of government departments?

How about the hundreds of billions spent on turning city, state and federal buildings into armed fortresses complete with every kind of security measure known?

Even going into many courts nowadays they appear as high security prisons, with armed guards, scanners, dogs, metal detectors, CCTV cameras everywhere etc.

In addition, why do so many smaller rural type towns nowadays have their own swat teams?

What is all this for?

36 posted on 08/21/2012 7:07:43 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: jonose

They ordered 750 million rounds over 5 years? We produce 6 billion rounds per year so this buy amounts to .3% of our annual production.

Not really a threatening number.


37 posted on 08/21/2012 7:26:34 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Cheerio
"You are probably on to something there, the way they are printing and borrowing money. M1 Money Stock (M1) / Velocity of MZM Money Stock (MZMV)"

Fun watching Bobo try to push a string...I've never seen anything dumber in my life than his attempt to hyperinflate his way out of trouble by disincentivizing risk.

38 posted on 08/21/2012 7:52:37 PM PDT by StAnDeliver ("So, a Mormon and a Catholic walk onto an aircraft carrier...")
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To: volunbeer

I beg to differ on several fronts. You don’t need hollow points for practice or qualification and would save hundreds of millions by buying standard FMJ rounds for practice. For those with little or no experience in firearms and practice/qualification procedures, you take the hollow points out of the magazines that are used daily and replace with FMJ practice/qualification rounds. When you are done practicing/qualifying, you reload your hollow points back into your magazines. I’m sure if I can get 2nd Lts to follow and understand the practice, 3 out of 5 federal agents could probably figure it out ... the other 2 of 5, you’d probably have to do the unloading and loading yourself as they probably wouldn’t be familiar with weapons or ammo enough to trust them to do it safely. The number of rounds ordered is ridiculous. If they can’t qualify with 50 or so rounds with a pistol, they should be issued bricks instead of pistols for their own safety or maybe assigned to desk jobs where scissors or staplers are not required. Additionally, I suspect that they don’t practice/qualify more than twice a year with most only once a year which again leads to why so much ammo.


39 posted on 08/21/2012 8:10:15 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (Skittle pooping unicorns are more common than progressives with honor & integrity.)
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To: dragnet2

I think SWAT is used far too much in many situations where it is not called for. I also question the need for some of these agencies to have SWAT. If they are serving “high risk” warrants they should utilize another agency like the Marshals Service. We will agree on that.

However, you wrote “Did ya happen to notice government has now armed simple park rangers all over the country?”

Are you serious?

Park Rangers have one of the most dangerous jobs in law enforcement. They have one of the most dangerous jobs period. They usually work alone in the middle of nowhere and often can’t get radio reception when it counts. If the radio does work the closest backup is normally too far away to do any good. Really, what can go wrong when confronting a felon who is poaching on federal land in the middle of nowhere?


40 posted on 08/21/2012 8:33:43 PM PDT by volunbeer (Don't worry America, our kids will pay for it!)
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To: volunbeer

If the government creates more and more swat teams, such as used by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and many other agencies, would they not demand more ammunition?

Did ya happen to notice government has now armed simple park rangers all over the country? Or the fact they have created armed divisions within all types of government departments?

How about the hundreds of billions spent on turning city, state and federal buildings into armed fortresses complete with every kind of security measure known?

Even going into many courts nowadays they appear as high security prisons, with armed guards, scanners, dogs, metal detectors, CCTV cameras everywhere etc.

In addition, why do so many smaller rural type towns nowadays have their own swat teams?

What is all this for?

>>>>Park Rangers have one of the most dangerous jobs in law enforcement.<<<<

LOL!

Tell me, how many park rangers died in the line of duty at the hands of criminals in 2011?


41 posted on 08/21/2012 8:37:01 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Tigen

“Never ever trust an undocumented president when he states we neen a civilian army as well armed as the military!”

We The People, those who exercise their 2nd Amendment rights have arms and ammo exceeding all of this, including the military. We The People, the armed American ‘hunters’ know how to use what is had, and are more than able to unite, as was done at Bunker Hill and all of the other skirmishes of the American Revolution. Those who know this do NOT want to start Civil War II...just as Yamamoto knew better than to try ‘invading’ this country on the west coast (when it still knew how to defend itself, and before it became the ‘Left Coast’.


42 posted on 08/21/2012 8:38:35 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders.)
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To: volunbeer
Are you serious? Park Rangers have one of the most dangerous jobs in law enforcement.

Yeah, I'm serious. Looks like 1 ranger died at the hands of criminals in 2011.

Most dangerous job in LE?

On January 29, 2011, Park Ranger Chris Nickel (NPS) died while on a backcountry patrol in Hovenweep National Monument, Utah


43 posted on 08/21/2012 8:46:38 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
Or why the NOAA needed a huge ammunition purchase. Or why the Social Security Administration needs 174,000 rounds of handgun ammo.

Mark

44 posted on 08/21/2012 8:48:02 PM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: 353FMG

Ich och(sp) {Me too} From the German that I used to know.


45 posted on 08/21/2012 8:54:16 PM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again.")
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To: fella
I know a little German....he's sitting over there....


46 posted on 08/21/2012 8:56:56 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: jonose

“When budget cuts come they will sell the bullets for a big profit...”

They ain’t buyin’ my size...


47 posted on 08/21/2012 9:02:27 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders.)
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To: dfwgator

But wait a minute..... He’s standing.


48 posted on 08/21/2012 9:04:36 PM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again.")
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To: fella

49 posted on 08/21/2012 9:14:15 PM PDT by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: RetiredTexasVet

You made me chuckle... I was also a butter bar and then some before I went into law enforcement. My senior NCO’s were usually correct and most of them acknowledged that there were always a certain number of troops that would not get it and/or had a bad day. It applied to the high speed units and applied even more in the low speed ones. They don’t have NCO’s in federal agencies to keep the wayward sheep on the right path.

You don’t just qualify... you train. Shooting 50 rounds four times a year does not cut it in law enforcement. You qualify with 50 rounds on your primary, your backup, and your rifle. You also may or may not throw a few ounces through a smoothbore depending on your agency. Law enforcement is different than the Infantry and I would respectfully disagree with you on the amount of ammunition you suggest. A variety of dynamic shooting drills and emergency action drills are essential to maintain the muscle memory needed to survive a critical incident. The military did not shoot nearly enough in my opinion when I was in although it has gotten much better the last decade.

I also disagree with you on the ammo. With modern machines that are many miles beyond the technology even a decade ago the real manufacturing cost between hollowpoints and ball is not nearly what I thought before I toured a modern plant. The price differential is not worth the headaches and more and more Chief’s agree each year.

A bad shoot in the military may or may not be discovered on the battlefield. A bad shoot in law enforcement will definitely be discovered and those can cost an agency far more than their entire annual firearms training budget to include salaries for instructors in the civil suit.

Regardless, thank you for your service and may God bless you and yours.


50 posted on 08/21/2012 9:41:57 PM PDT by volunbeer (Don't worry America, our kids will pay for it!)
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