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Why AC130s were grounded: Obama didn’t want voters to find out that he armed the jihadists w SAMs
Flopping Aces ^ | 10-30-12 | Alec Rawls

Posted on 10/30/2012 12:26:59 PM PDT by Starman417

It's simple logic. In Libya there is only one possible threat to an AC130 gunship: surface to air missiles. Thus this is the only way Panetta wasn't lying when he said that it was lack of information about the threat environment that kept him from sending defenders into "harm's way" in Benghazi. He must have been afraid that the jihadists were lying in wait with surface to air missiles, and he had good reason to suspect such a ploy.

A primary task of the Libyan mission was to round up the war materiel of the deposed and decomposing Moammar Ghadaffi and funnel it to chosen opponents of Assad in Syria. Which part of the Syrian opposition has Obama been choosing to supply? Al Qaeda:

“Most of the arms shipped at the behest of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to supply Syrian rebel groups fighting the government of Bashar al-Assad are going to hard-line Islamic jihadists, and not the more secular opposition groups that the West wants to bolster, according to American officials and Middle Eastern diplomats,” the Times reports.

The paper quotes one U.S. official as saying, “The opposition groups that are receiving the most of the lethal aid are exactly the ones we don’t want to have it,” adding that “officials, voicing frustration, say there is no central clearinghouse for the shipments, and no effective way of vetting the groups that ultimately receive them.”

According to Adm. James A. Lyons (retired), the Libyan arms that have been funneled to the jihadists include substantial numbers of surface to air missiles:
We now know why Ambassador Christopher Stevens had to be in Benghazi the night of 9/11 to meet a Turkish representative, even though he feared for his safety. According to various reports, one of Stevens’ main missions in Libya was to facilitate the transfer of much of Gadhafi’s military equipment, including the deadly SA-7 – portable SAMs – to Islamists and other al Qaeda-affiliated groups fighting the Assad Regime in Syria. In an excellent article, Aaron Klein states that Stevens routinely used our Benghazi consulate (mission) to coordinate the Turkish, Saudi Arabian and Qatari governments’ support for insurgencies throughout the Middle East. Further, according to Egyptian security sources, Stevens played a “central role in recruiting Islamic jihadists to fight the Assad Regime in Syria.”
So of course Panetta had to worry about the jihadists having man-portable SAMs. He had been supplying them, and a successful SAM attack on our military with these U.S. supplied weapons would be devastating for Obama's election chances. From the start of the Libyan operation critics have been complaining about U.S. aid going to the jihadists. To have that treasonous strategy backfire in such spectacular fashion would be Fast and Furious times a thousand.

So they made a calculated decision. Our people on the ground would be sacrificed to Obama's political ambition and the Obamatons would coordinate on a cover story about there not being any planned attack at all, when it actually appeared to them to be so well planned as to look like a possible trap.

(excerpt) Read more at floppingaces.net...


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: ac130; libya; obama; panetta; shadowwars; threatmatrix
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1 posted on 10/30/2012 12:26:59 PM PDT by Starman417
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To: Starman417

Then this is aid to the enemy....Constitutionally speaking.


2 posted on 10/30/2012 12:29:33 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter (,)
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To: Starman417

Related;
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/print-friendly/50586?fb_action_ids=513097095370227&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582


3 posted on 10/30/2012 12:32:12 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Starman417

Disgustingly makes sense.


4 posted on 10/30/2012 12:33:55 PM PDT by aposiopetic
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To: Starman417

...and the AC130s have countermeasures...shown on the picture. Worst choice of 2 ugly options...


5 posted on 10/30/2012 12:36:21 PM PDT by castlebrew (Gun Control means hitting where you're aiming!))
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To: Starman417

.

From ‘The Audacity Of Hope,“I WILL STAND WITH THEM (MUSLIMS) SHOULD THE POLITICAL WINDS OF WAR SHIFT IN AN UGLY DIRECTION..”

.


6 posted on 10/30/2012 12:36:44 PM PDT by patriot08 (TEXAS GAL- born and bred and proud of it!)
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To: Starman417

Is it correct to call Benghazi the Middle East Fast and Furious or International version of Fast and Furious?


7 posted on 10/30/2012 12:39:49 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: Starman417
Logic here like in Chicago. If the bad (or good if you're Obama) guys have guns, stand down or run. Spineless wimp.....
8 posted on 10/30/2012 12:44:07 PM PDT by Sleeping Freeper
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To: Starman417
BOMBSHELL: US Security Forces Would Not Have Been Painting Targets on Ground Unless There Was Air Support Overhead – But White House Called It Off
9 posted on 10/30/2012 12:45:58 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the psychopath.)
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To: Starman417

What’s the range on the SAM’s in question?

Did our drones fly within range of the SAM’s in question?

How far above a target can our aircraft be and still hit a target whose coordinates are entered into its system?

None of this makes sense with the contingency plans anyway. My understanding, based on what the military folks here and elsewhere have said, is that if you don’t know what the situation is, you make all assets available ASAP so you have what you need to respond appropriately as soon as you DO know what the situation is. You don’t have to use everything you have available but you have to make it available in case it is needed.

And somebody correct me if I’m mistaken on this, but if you don’t have the assets available from one site (Italy) then you get the assets from where they ARE available if they can arrive in decent time. If the Obama regime created a situation where there were no assets available ANYWHERE in the volatile Middle East and northern Africa areas - the hotbeds of terrorism - then the incompetence and/or treachery is an even BIGGER problem than if we had just removed critical security from Benghazi alone.


10 posted on 10/30/2012 12:46:29 PM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: Starman417

What about the supposedly armed predator drone that was over the consulate?


11 posted on 10/30/2012 12:46:49 PM PDT by Arm_Bears (Re-distribute my work ethic, not my wealth.)
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To: Starman417

I guess after Hussein 0bama’s success [sic] with Fast and Furious, he decided to run guns and all kinds of weapons on an international scale to his muzzie jihadist bros.


12 posted on 10/30/2012 12:47:19 PM PDT by The Sons of Liberty ( For AMERICA's sake: Vote for the Mormon, NOT the muslim; The Capitalist, NOT the Communist! FUBO!)
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To: patriot08

PLEASE PLEASE put that quote on EVERY POLITICAL THREAD!!!


13 posted on 10/30/2012 12:51:10 PM PDT by Ann Archy ( ABORTION...the HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
(From my previous link):

Then there’s this bombshell at BlackFive from a former Delta operator:

Having spent a good bit of time nursing a GLD (ground Laser Designator) in several garden spots around the world, something from the report jumped out at me.

One of the former SEALs was actively painting the target. That means that Specter WAS ON STATION! Probably an AC130U. A ground laser designator is not a briefing pointer laser. You do not “paint” a target until the weapons system/designator is synched; which means that the AC130 was on station.

Only two places could have called off the attack at that point; the WH situation command (based on POTUS direction) or AFRICOM commander based on information directly from the target area.

If the AC130 never left Sigonella (as Penetta says) that means that the Predator that was filming the whole thing was armed.

If that SEAL was actively “painting” a target; something was on station to engage! And the decision to stand down goes directly to POTUS!


14 posted on 10/30/2012 12:53:58 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the psychopath.)
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To: Starman417
So they made a calculated decision. Our people on the ground would be sacrificed to Obama's political ambition and the Obamatons would coordinate on a cover story about there not being any planned attack at all, when it actually appeared to them to be so well planned as to look like a possible trap.

So take the rapid response forces and insert them SEAL style.
15 posted on 10/30/2012 12:55:04 PM PDT by Eagle of Liberty (We the People are coming!!)
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To: Starman417

To go astray the SA-24 must be DAZZLED; it generally won’t be deceived by mere flares. I think the AC-130U is equipped with such a dazzler but I’m sure their worries were still huge.

I believe the Consulate attack was not only a snatch attempt but possibly PRIMARILY a trap to lure an AC-130 close enough for a shoot-down —it has happened before.

But this doesn’t let the Choom Gang off the hook —the shot instead have come from Predator. In fact they could have responded in MANY ways.

Barry let them die and hit the hay as prep for his Vegas trip —why wouldn’t the media cover for him this time, the way they did for him with Fast and Furious...?


16 posted on 10/30/2012 12:55:15 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: gaijin

I regularly see AC-130s flying around here tho I don’t know much about their defensive measures.

It has come to my mind at times watching them slowly circle an area, that even a WWII German 88mm anti-aricraft battery would/could ruin the day for an AC-130 crew.


17 posted on 10/30/2012 12:57:33 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: yarddog

The WWII 88 battery might get off one shot, the radar, optics & laser target designators would then see that never happened again.


18 posted on 10/30/2012 12:59:31 PM PDT by Reily (l)
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To: Starman417

No Private, let alone a SEAL would light up a target w a laser without an asset in place to fire IMMEDIATELY!!

The notion that there were no 130’s available is WRONG!

It was UP and On-Orbit, awaiting orders to fire!

And the only person in the room who would have used the non-military term “stand down”, is the @$$hat in chief.


19 posted on 10/30/2012 1:00:06 PM PDT by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: Starman417

There was an armed aircraft overhead. It may not have been an AC130 Spectre, it may have been a UCAV, but one of the operators was actively painting a target, which means he was in active communication with an armed aircraft.


20 posted on 10/30/2012 1:00:21 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the psychopath.)
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To: Texas Songwriter

I wrote every jot and tiddle of this article here 10 days ago includin the shoulder fire rockets and al queida.....


21 posted on 10/30/2012 1:01:04 PM PDT by advertising guy (" that lie has it's own sleep number " David Feherty PGA Championship 2012)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Nachum; maggief; Starman417

Here’s another one to add to your lists.


22 posted on 10/30/2012 1:02:02 PM PDT by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: butterdezillion

A LOT of the manpads floating around Libya are the SA-7, which is cheap crap and WILL get fooled by flares. It also has other limitations, also.

But the SA-24 has a ceiling of 19,000 feet, so it can quite easily reach up to the altitude at which the AC-130 typically operates.

But if it got close then as long as the Herc was the U version, well, then u can b sure it’s seeker would be dazzled to a crisp, or at least enough to provide for a good miss. So the American flight crew would sweat a good deal but probably be OK and could probably still carry out a good attack.


23 posted on 10/30/2012 1:04:25 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: Travis McGee

Ping.


24 posted on 10/30/2012 1:07:38 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Starman417

“Well, you see, Mr. President, we’ve now got these things called ‘countermeasures’, they can fool the missiles and divert them from their targets.”


25 posted on 10/30/2012 1:09:21 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: gaijin
AC130 Live Fire Exercises
26 posted on 10/30/2012 1:11:49 PM PDT by Eagle of Liberty (We the People are coming!!)
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To: Starman417

Like Afghanistan?


27 posted on 10/30/2012 1:12:21 PM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: gaijin

The most recent versions of the AC-130 have heavy machine guns and howtzer but can also launch hellfire missiles and there are even new specialiazed ports out of which the crew can drop very small missles with wings that flick out like a switchblade and are extremely accurate and have long-range, if launched from a very high (read here SAFE) altitude.

Sorry im typing this on aphone


28 posted on 10/30/2012 1:12:42 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: gaijin

Would terrorists on the ground be able to effectively aim and hit an aircraft that high?

It still doesn’t make sense, though, for them not to use the drone we already had there to take out a target already painted by Woods. I could see them sending in just an armed drone if they were afraid of having a manned aircraft shot down. But it makes no sense to have an armed drone right there and not let it fire on the X that Woods marked out for it.

What am I missing?


29 posted on 10/30/2012 1:12:54 PM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: gaijin

Why do idiots keeps saying that the armed platform HAD to be an AC-130...?

Someone tell me the answer to that.


30 posted on 10/30/2012 1:14:49 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: castlebrew

One AC-130 was lost in the 1991 Gulf War and it was suspected to be from an SA-7. It could happen.


31 posted on 10/30/2012 1:16:11 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: advertising guy

http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2012/10/11/news/world-news/benghazi-attack-10000-missing-missiles/


32 posted on 10/30/2012 1:19:14 PM PDT by freedommom
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To: Starman417

I know there are hundreds (just off the top of my head) of reasons for NOT voting for this poseur, the sitting pResident of the US, BUT if the fiasco surrounding outing and the subsequent loss (supposedly) of the ‘OBL’ SEALS (I will give ‘them’ the benefit of the doubt - a righteous Chain of Command may ‘fake’ the demise of people who suddenly got a target placed on their back by a bunch of phonies) but with this latest fiasco regarding the Ambassador, 2 Former Seals (CIA??), and aide -
ANYONE, who has ever worn the uniform or has someone presently serving, should not even be thinking of voting for this clown.

He has slapped the American public, Intel Community, Military etc directly in the face.

He should be worried about coming out of the White Hut in chains, doing a perp walk, rather than be having the extreme gall to run for Office.

Biden should be telling BO that HE has a pair the size of bowling balls for even thinking of running.


33 posted on 10/30/2012 1:19:55 PM PDT by xrmusn (6/98 "even a garden gnome casts a long shadow at sunset".)
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To: Starman417
Obama didn’t want voters to find out that he armed the jihadists w SAMs

Newsflash: Our SAMs process IFF (Identify Friend or Foe) signals so as to not shoot our own planes down.

34 posted on 10/30/2012 1:22:07 PM PDT by GingisK
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To: butterdezillion

At 19,000 feet they might get close but the missile seeker would by then be pretty fried (if the target were the AC130 that every one here has a raging boner for) also the missile would be at the end of its max burn so even a little jinking would provide a miss.

Shoot down fear was not totally misplaced but I still think he pussied out.


35 posted on 10/30/2012 1:22:52 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

The UCAV is not yet fielded and probably not for...years...?


36 posted on 10/30/2012 1:25:52 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: gaijin
Good afternoon. I hope you are doing well.

Why do idiots keeps saying that the armed platform HAD to be an AC-130...?

From the assets that I'm aware of in the theater of operations, it could have been a Predator, F/A 18, refueled Apaches, or a Specter. It didn't HAVE to be a C130-U. Could have been other assets as well. Who knows at this point?

5.56mm

37 posted on 10/30/2012 1:26:14 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: Starman417

This is the reason. And the fact is that the AQ still have the SAM’s. We gave AQ our weapons. Brilliant!


38 posted on 10/30/2012 1:29:28 PM PDT by DOGHEAD
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To: Starman417

Does anyone believe Obama and Co will really help storm victims beyond his political BS? His words mean nothing except he wants us to forget Bengali.


39 posted on 10/30/2012 1:30:24 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: gaijin

I guess I meant an armed Predator. Thanks for pointing my egregious stupidity.


40 posted on 10/30/2012 1:34:33 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the psychopath.)
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To: Starman417

This makes complete sense. For the first time, I fully understand what happened. The supposition fits every last available fact or circumstance.


41 posted on 10/30/2012 1:47:30 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie (0BAMA CHOSE to watch a MUSLIM SNUFF FILM rather than a HEROIC AMERICAN RESCUE FILM)
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To: Starman417
So of course Panetta had to worry about the jihadists having man-portable SAMs. He had been supplying them, and a successful SAM attack on our military with these U.S. supplied weapons would be devastating for Obama's election chances.

The jihadis taking out an airliner with one of the MANPADs that Obama allowed to fall into their hands would be an even worse reflection. Obama must be praying that won't happen.

Even letting it be covered in the MSM that the MANPADs are out there in al-Q hands would kill air travel.

42 posted on 10/30/2012 1:59:36 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (political correctness is communist thought control, disguised as good manners)
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To: Starman417

They’ll spin this into Øbama out-smarted them and saved many lives by not sending the planes.
give it time . . .


43 posted on 10/30/2012 2:03:07 PM PDT by ßuddaßudd (>> F U B O << "What the hell kind of country is this if I can only hate a man if he's white?")
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To: Starman417

The problem is the America people electing a virtual marxist as President..

After all... WHAT COULD GO WRONG WITH THAT?.....
A Marxist in control of whats top secret and what is not?..
Any expecting any clarity better put down their Bong..

Americas basement is filled to the top with sewage..
Pumping it out will solve NOTHING..

Because the same people are voting..
Lady Liberty has her hands on a Boehner in the House and is blowing on a Reid Instrument in the Senate..
The question should be asked, “Is Lady Liberty a WHORE?”..

She seems to servicing all the wrong people.. Lady Liberty just might be a democrat..


44 posted on 10/30/2012 2:06:54 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: butterdezillion

Good rule of thumb for MANPADS (in terms of range) is 2.5-3.0 NM, even for the newer systems like Stinger and the Russian SA-16/18 series. Max altitude is about 15K for the first-generation models and up to 20K (under ideal conditions).

As other posters have pointed out, the AC-130 is designed to operate in a MANPAD environment. The gunship is outfitted with the latest flares/IR jammers and dispenser programs that can deal with virutally any MANPAD in existence. And of course, Spectre’s on-board armament is a powerful deterrent to anyone who decides to take a pot-shot.

As a result, we haven’t lost an AC-130 in combat since the Battle of Khafji during the First Gulf War. That particular aircraft (callsign Spirit 03) was downed by an Iraqi MANPAD. However, the shootdown occurred during daylight hours (when gunships normally don’t operate). The aircraft commander decided to remain on-scene despite the dangers of operating during daylight hours—and the fact that two other AC-130s had already left the area.

The presence of MANPADs should not have been enough to prevent an AC-130 from being scrambled to Benghazi, or engaging targets on the ground. That decision was purely political, and had nothing to do with the “vulnerability” of the AC-130.

One more note: the USAF operated all types of C-130s over Bosnia during the 1990s, despite the potential threat from Serbian SA-6s, the mobile, radar-guided SAM that was responsible for the downing of Scott O’Grady’s F-16. I know, because I was a crew member on one of those platforms. In fact, one AC-130 was “locked up” one night by an SA-6 target tracking radar. The gunship’s jamming pods (along with maneuvering) broke lock, and there was never confirmation of a missile launch.

However, the AC “over-G’ed” the aircraft during the defensive maneuvering, and that particular AC-130 sat on the ramp at San Vito for months while Lockheed re-winged the gunship.


45 posted on 10/30/2012 2:14:59 PM PDT by ExNewsExSpook
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To: Starman417

So basically that whole ten years of bashing Rumsfeld and his actions with Saddam ...oh, nevermind — these are OUR Arabs.


46 posted on 10/30/2012 2:15:29 PM PDT by KC Burke (Plain Conservative opinions and common sense correction for thirteen years.)
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To: Starman417

NIce try, but not realistic. Our USAF air commandos would consider Libya including Benghazi to be a low-threat environment, even some loose manpads. Manpads are nothing compared to what these guys train to go against.


47 posted on 10/30/2012 2:16:43 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: butterdezillion
My “Cross-Border Authority” commentary has reached up to Market Ticker.

That’s progress. Next stop, the MSM?

The ACTUAL Issue On Benghazi?

Summed up quite nicely right here: (Western Rifle Shooters, full column)

Every SOF officer and ops officer all the way up has this drummed into his head. We can make Obama respond to this question, even if reporters must shout it at him while he’s doing storm cleanup photo ops. If the reporters KNOW enough to ask the quesion.

That’s why I am shouting all over the internet about CBA.

I can’t believe cross-border authority permission is not one of the top discussion points about Benghazi.

That, and who “set him up” by sending him to Benghazi to meet the Turks on 9-11, with them leaving after dark.

And of course, down the road, was the military rescue-in-progress turned back because Obama actually wanted to make sure the consulate was wiped out? Is that why the spooks at the annex were refused permission to travel the under one mile to intervene? That would connect it all together, but for now, the best focus is on Obama either granting or withholding cross-border authority for the rescue.

Feel free to repost these musings of a long-ago SOF officer anywhere you please.

48 posted on 10/30/2012 2:19:24 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: ExNewsExSpook; Travis McGee

Is there a place to find the facts that we know for sure on Benghazi?


49 posted on 10/30/2012 2:21:37 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: aposiopetic; gaijin
.


Gentlemen,

I considered such a "SAM Ambush for an AC-130" a few days ago ...

after all, Obama's stupidity allowed 20,000 (???) SAMs to fall into Enemy-terrorist hands.


At the same time, our military assets have contingency plans for such scenarios ...

I guarantee that an effective combined-arms assualt would have taken the Terrorist SAMs into account ...

and ultimately made mince-meat of the entire Terrorist operation.


Short and simple.


Accordingly, Obama and Company are still GUILTY of letting the Ambassador and three colleagues DIE ...

Obama has BLOOD on HIS HANDS.

Period.




.
50 posted on 10/30/2012 2:23:42 PM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin will DEFEAT the Obama-Romney Socialist Gay-Marriage Axis of Evil)
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