Skip to comments.Why AC130s were grounded: Obama didn’t want voters to find out that he armed the jihadists w SAMs
Posted on 10/30/2012 12:26:59 PM PDT by Starman417
It's simple logic. In Libya there is only one possible threat to an AC130 gunship: surface to air missiles. Thus this is the only way Panetta wasn't lying when he said that it was lack of information about the threat environment that kept him from sending defenders into "harm's way" in Benghazi. He must have been afraid that the jihadists were lying in wait with surface to air missiles, and he had good reason to suspect such a ploy.
A primary task of the Libyan mission was to round up the war materiel of the deposed and decomposing Moammar Ghadaffi and funnel it to chosen opponents of Assad in Syria. Which part of the Syrian opposition has Obama been choosing to supply? Al Qaeda:
Most of the arms shipped at the behest of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to supply Syrian rebel groups fighting the government of Bashar al-Assad are going to hard-line Islamic jihadists, and not the more secular opposition groups that the West wants to bolster, according to American officials and Middle Eastern diplomats, the Times reports.According to Adm. James A. Lyons (retired), the Libyan arms that have been funneled to the jihadists include substantial numbers of surface to air missiles:
The paper quotes one U.S. official as saying, The opposition groups that are receiving the most of the lethal aid are exactly the ones we dont want to have it, adding that officials, voicing frustration, say there is no central clearinghouse for the shipments, and no effective way of vetting the groups that ultimately receive them.
We now know why Ambassador Christopher Stevens had to be in Benghazi the night of 9/11 to meet a Turkish representative, even though he feared for his safety. According to various reports, one of Stevens main missions in Libya was to facilitate the transfer of much of Gadhafis military equipment, including the deadly SA-7 portable SAMs to Islamists and other al Qaeda-affiliated groups fighting the Assad Regime in Syria. In an excellent article, Aaron Klein states that Stevens routinely used our Benghazi consulate (mission) to coordinate the Turkish, Saudi Arabian and Qatari governments support for insurgencies throughout the Middle East. Further, according to Egyptian security sources, Stevens played a central role in recruiting Islamic jihadists to fight the Assad Regime in Syria.So of course Panetta had to worry about the jihadists having man-portable SAMs. He had been supplying them, and a successful SAM attack on our military with these U.S. supplied weapons would be devastating for Obama's election chances. From the start of the Libyan operation critics have been complaining about U.S. aid going to the jihadists. To have that treasonous strategy backfire in such spectacular fashion would be Fast and Furious times a thousand.
So they made a calculated decision. Our people on the ground would be sacrificed to Obama's political ambition and the Obamatons would coordinate on a cover story about there not being any planned attack at all, when it actually appeared to them to be so well planned as to look like a possible trap.
(excerpt) Read more at floppingaces.net...
Then this is aid to the enemy....Constitutionally speaking.
Disgustingly makes sense.
...and the AC130s have countermeasures...shown on the picture. Worst choice of 2 ugly options...
From The Audacity Of Hope,I WILL STAND WITH THEM (MUSLIMS) SHOULD THE POLITICAL WINDS OF WAR SHIFT IN AN UGLY DIRECTION..
Is it correct to call Benghazi the Middle East Fast and Furious or International version of Fast and Furious?
What’s the range on the SAM’s in question?
Did our drones fly within range of the SAM’s in question?
How far above a target can our aircraft be and still hit a target whose coordinates are entered into its system?
None of this makes sense with the contingency plans anyway. My understanding, based on what the military folks here and elsewhere have said, is that if you don’t know what the situation is, you make all assets available ASAP so you have what you need to respond appropriately as soon as you DO know what the situation is. You don’t have to use everything you have available but you have to make it available in case it is needed.
And somebody correct me if I’m mistaken on this, but if you don’t have the assets available from one site (Italy) then you get the assets from where they ARE available if they can arrive in decent time. If the Obama regime created a situation where there were no assets available ANYWHERE in the volatile Middle East and northern Africa areas - the hotbeds of terrorism - then the incompetence and/or treachery is an even BIGGER problem than if we had just removed critical security from Benghazi alone.
What about the supposedly armed predator drone that was over the consulate?
I guess after Hussein 0bama’s success [sic] with Fast and Furious, he decided to run guns and all kinds of weapons on an international scale to his muzzie jihadist bros.
PLEASE PLEASE put that quote on EVERY POLITICAL THREAD!!!
Then theres this bombshell at BlackFive from a former Delta operator:
Having spent a good bit of time nursing a GLD (ground Laser Designator) in several garden spots around the world, something from the report jumped out at me.
One of the former SEALs was actively painting the target. That means that Specter WAS ON STATION! Probably an AC130U. A ground laser designator is not a briefing pointer laser. You do not paint a target until the weapons system/designator is synched; which means that the AC130 was on station.
Only two places could have called off the attack at that point; the WH situation command (based on POTUS direction) or AFRICOM commander based on information directly from the target area.
If the AC130 never left Sigonella (as Penetta says) that means that the Predator that was filming the whole thing was armed.
If that SEAL was actively painting a target; something was on station to engage! And the decision to stand down goes directly to POTUS!
To go astray the SA-24 must be DAZZLED; it generally won’t be deceived by mere flares. I think the AC-130U is equipped with such a dazzler but I’m sure their worries were still huge.
I believe the Consulate attack was not only a snatch attempt but possibly PRIMARILY a trap to lure an AC-130 close enough for a shoot-down —it has happened before.
But this doesn’t let the Choom Gang off the hook —the shot instead have come from Predator. In fact they could have responded in MANY ways.
Barry let them die and hit the hay as prep for his Vegas trip —why wouldn’t the media cover for him this time, the way they did for him with Fast and Furious...?
I regularly see AC-130s flying around here tho I don’t know much about their defensive measures.
It has come to my mind at times watching them slowly circle an area, that even a WWII German 88mm anti-aricraft battery would/could ruin the day for an AC-130 crew.
The WWII 88 battery might get off one shot, the radar, optics & laser target designators would then see that never happened again.
No Private, let alone a SEAL would light up a target w a laser without an asset in place to fire IMMEDIATELY!!
The notion that there were no 130’s available is WRONG!
It was UP and On-Orbit, awaiting orders to fire!
And the only person in the room who would have used the non-military term “stand down”, is the @$$hat in chief.
There was an armed aircraft overhead. It may not have been an AC130 Spectre, it may have been a UCAV, but one of the operators was actively painting a target, which means he was in active communication with an armed aircraft.
I wrote every jot and tiddle of this article here 10 days ago includin the shoulder fire rockets and al queida.....
Here’s another one to add to your lists.
A LOT of the manpads floating around Libya are the SA-7, which is cheap crap and WILL get fooled by flares. It also has other limitations, also.
But the SA-24 has a ceiling of 19,000 feet, so it can quite easily reach up to the altitude at which the AC-130 typically operates.
But if it got close then as long as the Herc was the U version, well, then u can b sure it’s seeker would be dazzled to a crisp, or at least enough to provide for a good miss. So the American flight crew would sweat a good deal but probably be OK and could probably still carry out a good attack.
“Well, you see, Mr. President, we’ve now got these things called ‘countermeasures’, they can fool the missiles and divert them from their targets.”
The most recent versions of the AC-130 have heavy machine guns and howtzer but can also launch hellfire missiles and there are even new specialiazed ports out of which the crew can drop very small missles with wings that flick out like a switchblade and are extremely accurate and have long-range, if launched from a very high (read here SAFE) altitude.
Sorry im typing this on aphone
Would terrorists on the ground be able to effectively aim and hit an aircraft that high?
It still doesn’t make sense, though, for them not to use the drone we already had there to take out a target already painted by Woods. I could see them sending in just an armed drone if they were afraid of having a manned aircraft shot down. But it makes no sense to have an armed drone right there and not let it fire on the X that Woods marked out for it.
What am I missing?
Why do idiots keeps saying that the armed platform HAD to be an AC-130...?
Someone tell me the answer to that.
One AC-130 was lost in the 1991 Gulf War and it was suspected to be from an SA-7. It could happen.
I know there are hundreds (just off the top of my head) of reasons for NOT voting for this poseur, the sitting pResident of the US, BUT if the fiasco surrounding outing and the subsequent loss (supposedly) of the ‘OBL’ SEALS (I will give ‘them’ the benefit of the doubt - a righteous Chain of Command may ‘fake’ the demise of people who suddenly got a target placed on their back by a bunch of phonies) but with this latest fiasco regarding the Ambassador, 2 Former Seals (CIA??), and aide -
ANYONE, who has ever worn the uniform or has someone presently serving, should not even be thinking of voting for this clown.
He has slapped the American public, Intel Community, Military etc directly in the face.
He should be worried about coming out of the White Hut in chains, doing a perp walk, rather than be having the extreme gall to run for Office.
Biden should be telling BO that HE has a pair the size of bowling balls for even thinking of running.
Newsflash: Our SAMs process IFF (Identify Friend or Foe) signals so as to not shoot our own planes down.
At 19,000 feet they might get close but the missile seeker would by then be pretty fried (if the target were the AC130 that every one here has a raging boner for) also the missile would be at the end of its max burn so even a little jinking would provide a miss.
Shoot down fear was not totally misplaced but I still think he pussied out.
The UCAV is not yet fielded and probably not for...years...?
Why do idiots keeps saying that the armed platform HAD to be an AC-130...?
From the assets that I'm aware of in the theater of operations, it could have been a Predator, F/A 18, refueled Apaches, or a Specter. It didn't HAVE to be a C130-U. Could have been other assets as well. Who knows at this point?
This is the reason. And the fact is that the AQ still have the SAM’s. We gave AQ our weapons. Brilliant!
Does anyone believe Obama and Co will really help storm victims beyond his political BS? His words mean nothing except he wants us to forget Bengali.
I guess I meant an armed Predator. Thanks for pointing my egregious stupidity.
This makes complete sense. For the first time, I fully understand what happened. The supposition fits every last available fact or circumstance.
The jihadis taking out an airliner with one of the MANPADs that Obama allowed to fall into their hands would be an even worse reflection. Obama must be praying that won't happen.
Even letting it be covered in the MSM that the MANPADs are out there in al-Q hands would kill air travel.
They’ll spin this into Øbama out-smarted them and saved many lives by not sending the planes.
give it time . . .
The problem is the America people electing a virtual marxist as President..
After all... WHAT COULD GO WRONG WITH THAT?.....
A Marxist in control of whats top secret and what is not?..
Any expecting any clarity better put down their Bong..
Americas basement is filled to the top with sewage..
Pumping it out will solve NOTHING..
Because the same people are voting..
Lady Liberty has her hands on a Boehner in the House and is blowing on a Reid Instrument in the Senate..
The question should be asked, “Is Lady Liberty a WHORE?”..
She seems to servicing all the wrong people.. Lady Liberty just might be a democrat..
Good rule of thumb for MANPADS (in terms of range) is 2.5-3.0 NM, even for the newer systems like Stinger and the Russian SA-16/18 series. Max altitude is about 15K for the first-generation models and up to 20K (under ideal conditions).
As other posters have pointed out, the AC-130 is designed to operate in a MANPAD environment. The gunship is outfitted with the latest flares/IR jammers and dispenser programs that can deal with virutally any MANPAD in existence. And of course, Spectre’s on-board armament is a powerful deterrent to anyone who decides to take a pot-shot.
As a result, we haven’t lost an AC-130 in combat since the Battle of Khafji during the First Gulf War. That particular aircraft (callsign Spirit 03) was downed by an Iraqi MANPAD. However, the shootdown occurred during daylight hours (when gunships normally don’t operate). The aircraft commander decided to remain on-scene despite the dangers of operating during daylight hours—and the fact that two other AC-130s had already left the area.
The presence of MANPADs should not have been enough to prevent an AC-130 from being scrambled to Benghazi, or engaging targets on the ground. That decision was purely political, and had nothing to do with the “vulnerability” of the AC-130.
One more note: the USAF operated all types of C-130s over Bosnia during the 1990s, despite the potential threat from Serbian SA-6s, the mobile, radar-guided SAM that was responsible for the downing of Scott O’Grady’s F-16. I know, because I was a crew member on one of those platforms. In fact, one AC-130 was “locked up” one night by an SA-6 target tracking radar. The gunship’s jamming pods (along with maneuvering) broke lock, and there was never confirmation of a missile launch.
However, the AC “over-G’ed” the aircraft during the defensive maneuvering, and that particular AC-130 sat on the ramp at San Vito for months while Lockheed re-winged the gunship.
So basically that whole ten years of bashing Rumsfeld and his actions with Saddam ...oh, nevermind — these are OUR Arabs.
NIce try, but not realistic. Our USAF air commandos would consider Libya including Benghazi to be a low-threat environment, even some loose manpads. Manpads are nothing compared to what these guys train to go against.
Thats progress. Next stop, the MSM?
Every SOF officer and ops officer all the way up has this drummed into his head. We can make Obama respond to this question, even if reporters must shout it at him while hes doing storm cleanup photo ops. If the reporters KNOW enough to ask the quesion.
Thats why I am shouting all over the internet about CBA.
I cant believe cross-border authority permission is not one of the top discussion points about Benghazi.
That, and who set him up by sending him to Benghazi to meet the Turks on 9-11, with them leaving after dark.
And of course, down the road, was the military rescue-in-progress turned back because Obama actually wanted to make sure the consulate was wiped out? Is that why the spooks at the annex were refused permission to travel the under one mile to intervene? That would connect it all together, but for now, the best focus is on Obama either granting or withholding cross-border authority for the rescue.
Feel free to repost these musings of a long-ago SOF officer anywhere you please.
Is there a place to find the facts that we know for sure on Benghazi?
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