Posted on 03/30/2013 1:29:01 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
The Shroud of Turin continues to spark intense theological debate. While one side believes that the cloth is nothing more than a medieval forgery, the other contends that the x-ray-like image imprinted on it was supernaturally created during Jesus Christ’s resurrection.
In the past, claims that it was the work of a renaissance artist, an optical illusion or, as mentioned, a legitimate, faith-inspired phenomenon have abounded. Without a doubt, the cloth has confounded supporters and detractors, alike, for decades.
Now, “The Mystery of the Shroud,” a book that examines new chemical and mechanical tests that were more recently conducted on the shroud, seems to side with the latter assessment. Journalist Saverio Gaeta and Giulio Fanti of Italy’s University of Padua (professor of mechanical and thermal measurement) collaborated on the new book that maintains that the Shroud of Turin dates back to the 1st century and not to a later time period as some have contended.
As TheBlaze previously reported, the shroud features an image of a bearded man (i.e. Jesus) whose body appears to have wounds from nails in his hands and feet — the same locations that some believe were affected when Christ was nailed to the cross....
(Excerpt) Read more at theblaze.com ...
The new weave was cotton. The old was linen. Fascinating.
The shroud has a demonstrated power to be an instrument of conversion, and I don’t see anything wrong with it being used to strengthen and confirm faith in a tangible, physical way, that can also help bring others who require proof to a knowledge of Gods saving grace. Many scientists studying the Shroud have come to believe in Jesus Christ. if the evidence merit the historian’s trust, then we can more easily extend that trust to the rest of the Gospel accounts of Christ’s life.
There is a dna link to Jesus?
Aside from that what is the scientific proof?
Who said anything about DNA?
They did computer comparisons of the faces on the two cloths and they matched.
How do you get DNA out of that?
Clearly I was looking for scientific proof. DNA is the best indicator of that. Facial similarity is far from scientific, not to mention that we have no photos of Jesus that I am aware of.
The physical representations of Jesus that we are always presented with have to be inaccurate, anyway. Jesus had to have Semitic features being from that region, yet his likeness is not portrayed that way today, so what exactly are we comparing to the image in the shroud?
This has nothing to do with the validity of Jesus in Christianity. I just think that there is zero scientific evidence that ties Jesus to the shroud, and frankly I don’t understand why anyone cares about whether the shroud is related to Jesus.
I have to disagree in part to correct a misstatement. There is no facial image on the Sudarium of Oviedo, only blood stains. These stains, and a bloody hand print, however, do bear seventy-two points of congruity with blood stains on the Shroud of Turin. 21 points of congruity is considered a perfect match in fingerprinting. I know. These are not fingerprints.
It is my contention that after the Sudarium was used to cover Jesus head on the cross and while carrying him to the tomb, it was further used by rolling it diagonally into a rope like form and then used to tie "around" his head, passing under his jaw and beard, behind his forelocks and ears, and then tied at the top of his head to keep his mouth closed in death to prevent gaping as part of the bindings—the other bindings being those needed to keep his arms and legs from flopping after rigor passed—thus meeting the statement about the cloth that was "wrapped around his head" that was left apart from the other graves clothes. It was this rolled and tied Sudarium that Jesus pulled from around his head as he walked from the tomb and dropped on his way out. . . a very natural act, freeing himself from the binding around his head.
I have tested this hypothesis with a cloth cut to the exact rectangular dimensions of the Sudarium preserved at Oviedo. When rolled diagonally along the hypotenuse of the 84cm x 53cm Sudarium the resultin "binding" is almost exactly one meter at 99.3cm, which is more than enough to wrap under the chin around behind the ears and then be tied at the crown. The Sudarium has repeated blood stains showing that it was rolled in just such a manner while some of the blood was still fresh enough to transfer across the roll.
I agree with your basic premise, however, it is even stranger than that. It is NOT a photographic negative, because it has been scientifically determined that there are no light generated or affected artifacting in the image! What they have determined is that the image is an analogue database; a terrain map in direct intensity, contrast if you will, of body to cloth distance with a strange twist of some radiological data included for certain body parts (teeth, phalanges of wrist and hand).
By no "light generated or artifacting", they mean there is no evidence of illumination, shadowing, reflection, or refraction anywhere on the Shroud. Instead they discovered a direct correlation of body to cloth distance and image color intensity. Whatever the causal modality, the closer the cloth to the body, the greater the intensity of the image, with the highest intensity occurring with contact and lowest fading to zero evenly at approximately 12cm.
Actually, no, he does not have to be "Semitic" as a large portion of the population were in that period what are today referred to as high noble Arabs. Tall, athletic, muscular. Think Omar Sharif. Much like what we see in the man in the Shroud who is variously calculated to be 5' 10" to 5' 10 1/2" tall, hardly out of the normal range. They accounted for approximately 40% of the Jewish population of Israel in the 1st Century.
A census of 1st Century male skeletons in Jerusalem cemeteries found the average male stature was 5' 8 1/8" tall. The average height of men in America today is 5' 8 3/8", a quarter inch taller. Strangely, the average height of the Roman conquerors in the 1st century was only 5' 6".
Remember, we are talking about the single most investigated and studied historical object in history! You really don't think a claim that it can't be real because it doesn't look Semitic would NOT have been investigated by now, do you? Prior to Secondo Pia's first photographs of the Shroud in 1898, the only research being done was essentially historical and iconographic.
Another Shroud article for the Shroud Ping list. Sorry I missed it earlier.
PING!
The other cloth is believed to be the “Sudarium of Oviedo, or Shroud of Oviedo, is a bloodstained cloth...”
Has similar markings as the shroud and same rare blood type (AB). It is also mentioned in a historical document from 570 AD - which is can be used to support that the shroud was around much earlier than the middle ages.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctGKH3oEXAk
I’m sure you have seen the History Channel show from a year or so ago. Amazing work! Here is Part 6 where they reveal the 3D image from their data analysis.
The other cloth is believed to be the “Sudarium of Oviedo, or Shroud of Oviedo, is a bloodstained cloth...”
Has similar markings as the shroud and same rare blood type (AB). It is also mentioned in a historical document from 570 AD - which is can be used to support that the shroud was around much earlier than the middle ages.
Would anyone believe in Christ Jesus, regardless of any artifact, other than Grace; the key, to a responding soul.
Would anyone believe in Christ Jesus, regardless of any artifact, other than Grace. That is key, to a responding soul.
very good
bookmark
Because it's so much fun to drive you trolls up a wall.
Cheers!
So, you care about this issue. Why?
From my experience, the "medieval forgery" crowd isn't at all familiar with the evidence.
I never said one word about height. I wrote of facial features only. Do the representations of Jesus make you think he was Arab? The representations i have seen show a very light skinned man, a very unlikely scenario.
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