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Convincing a liberal son
Me | October 8, 2013 | Me

Posted on 10/08/2013 5:48:50 AM PDT by GYPSY286

Is Wikipedia left leaning?


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: wikipedia
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I need some Freeper help here. Have been trying to convince my son that the colleges here in PA are left-leaning. When I produced a list, he told me that I obtained the list from a right-wing site. I am trying to convince him that the economy is worse with Nobama than it was with Bush, same thing - I picked a right-wing site. Is Wikipedia a left-leaning site? That is the one he chooses when arguing points with me. He says my sources are always biased. Should I just give up on him?
1 posted on 10/08/2013 5:48:50 AM PDT by GYPSY286
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To: GYPSY286

Show him your paycheck.

Ask him if he thinks it’s fair for the government to take SO much?


2 posted on 10/08/2013 5:50:48 AM PDT by SMARTY ("The test of every religious, political, or educational system is the man that it forms." H. Amiel)
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To: GYPSY286

Wikipedia is no longer considered an acceptable source for many college professors...and they’re leftists themselves. LOL.


3 posted on 10/08/2013 5:51:02 AM PDT by EBH ( The Day of the Patriot has arrived.)
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To: GYPSY286

Tell him that attacking the source of the information is not a valid argument, and in doing so, he’s showing intellectual laziness.

Appeal to his natural youthful liberal arrogance.

He has to refute the points on their own merits.


4 posted on 10/08/2013 5:51:42 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: GYPSY286

Even highschool teachers won’t accept Wiki sourced material either.


5 posted on 10/08/2013 5:52:02 AM PDT by EBH ( The Day of the Patriot has arrived.)
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To: SMARTY

Don’t bother arguing left-right.... it’s a losing, meaningless name game. Argue freedom loving vs totalitarianism. The National Socialists reared their ugly heads in Germany before, and here they come again. We are infested with International Socialists. And rest assured, as soon as they have consolidated enough power they will become Nationalists. It’s happening all around us and the stench is overwhelming.


6 posted on 10/08/2013 5:53:45 AM PDT by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
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To: GYPSY286

Don’t give up on him but understand that you have lost him for a while. Just because he uses terms like “right wing” shows that his education has been effective. Public school, yes?


7 posted on 10/08/2013 5:54:40 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINEhttp://steshaw.org/economics-in-one-lesson/)
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To: MarineBrat

The only other tact that I think might work is “conservative to be kind”—disputing the harebrained idea that Leftism is the kind and sensitive thing to do for the less fortunate.

In my experience, if you don’t counter that argument ears aren’t open.


8 posted on 10/08/2013 5:56:25 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: GYPSY286

They are MORE left leaning than Harry Reid, I know, I am listed on Wikapedia and hardly any of it is TRUE!! Now, Try getting it changed....Forget it!!


9 posted on 10/08/2013 5:57:11 AM PDT by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
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To: GYPSY286

Yes it is


10 posted on 10/08/2013 6:02:25 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: arthurus

I was liberal in my yute, but if you instill good values and don’t waiver, he will turn around at some point...


11 posted on 10/08/2013 6:02:43 AM PDT by seeker41 (take your country back by whatever means necessary)
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To: GYPSY286
When I was a news director, I told my reporters they were not to use Wikipedia as a source under any circumstances. I don't know if it's liberal or not, but being as anyone can edit any page makes it highly suspicious, and 100% un-credibile.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

12 posted on 10/08/2013 6:03:38 AM PDT by wku man (It's almost deer season, got your DEERGOGGLES on yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jexrnFq2fXY)
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To: GYPSY286

Wikipedia entries — which are almost entirely written by self-selected volunteers — are as subject to bias, distortion, and error as most everything else. As for worthwhile colleges in Pennsylvania, Grove City College is politically conservative but socially tolerant and well-regarded for its high admission standards and academics — and the Wikipedia entry is complimentary.


13 posted on 10/08/2013 6:05:08 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: GYPSY286

Wikipedia is definitely left leaning. I recall doing research for an article on Allende and Aristede and found the Wikipedia articles to be heavily censored and biased. I had to check numerous original sources before I had all the facts concerning Chile and Haiti. Anyone relying exclusively on Wikipedia is engaging in intellectual laziness.


14 posted on 10/08/2013 6:05:46 AM PDT by trubolotta
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To: seeker41

Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it.
Prov 22:6


15 posted on 10/08/2013 6:06:11 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: 9YearLurker

Most older libs are libs because they are imputing righteousness on themselves for “caring about the poor/earth/etc”.

When I told one of these how their policies had destroyed black families, from the look on her face you would have thought I’d slapped her.

With young libs, though, it’s different. It’s usually a matter of arrogance, as they aren’t thinking about judgement day as much as an older person would be.


16 posted on 10/08/2013 6:07:59 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: MrB

Absolutely.

However, Fatherless households create feral children!


17 posted on 10/08/2013 6:08:12 AM PDT by seeker41 (take your country back by whatever means necessary)
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To: GYPSY286

Ask him what source would be acceptable, I’d be interesting in knowing what he thinks.

The school probably has a socialist democrat club website, just use it.


18 posted on 10/08/2013 6:10:30 AM PDT by PoloSec ( Believe the Gospel: how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again)
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To: GYPSY286
Tell him he must pay for college, himself. Ask him how he will go about paying for it. I doubt Wikipedia will have the answer.

Wikipedia is not necessarily left-leaning, but you should point out to him that it's articles are constantly re-written by ordinary people, not professionals, and that it is not always accurate. It is not the Britannica. It lies. One can also be very selective with facts. You could probably use Wikipedia for your own research, too, to counter his. Also tell him that Google is in the tank with Obama (it's owner helped run his campaign), and that any search is geared toward left-leaning articles and websites. Yahoo is not much better.

19 posted on 10/08/2013 6:11:17 AM PDT by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: GYPSY286

Wikipedia is user driven and simply not a reliable source. It has references but those references can be questionable. Not a reliable source.

To compare Bush years vs Obama, show unemployment line charts and have him demonstrate how 5 years of 7-10% unemployment is better than 4.7%-6% which is what it was for most of the term.

Then show a line chart of percent of the population employed. Ask him how this period is better. Let him explain it and decide. He may not give in now but it will be info to think about.

It might be helpful to look at the 90s too and talk about the House forcing Clinton into lower tax rates on capital gains and the resulting boom. Unlike obama’s hard line left beliefs Clinton signed off on a lot of good economic policies.


20 posted on 10/08/2013 6:12:34 AM PDT by ilgipper (Obama is proving that very bad ideas can be wrapped up in pretty words)
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To: GYPSY286

I a word? Yes. You should also tell him that since the government is going to take care of him the rest of his life, he won’t need any inheritance.


21 posted on 10/08/2013 6:15:16 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: seeker41

I think the POINT is to have a feral/criminal/dependent population,

and that’s why the left has pushed the father out of the home.


22 posted on 10/08/2013 6:15:49 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: GYPSY286

wikippedia is completely unreliable because anyone can get on it an edit, does your son know that?

But whether you can convince him or any other kid that can’t remember what USA was before the 1970s? No, they will just have to figure it out


23 posted on 10/08/2013 6:16:29 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: MrChips

Tell him to read C. S. Lewis, T.S. Eliot, Dorothy Sayers, James Hitchcock (3 Anglicans and a Catholic, all conservative) . . . sometimes the religious angle, and an appreciation for objectivity rooted in Absolute Truth (as opposed to subjectivity rooted in one’s “feelings”), can help. It may take awhile, but it is ultimately the sine qua non of most conservative thought. There also used to be a good book called The Conservative Reader. Find it.


24 posted on 10/08/2013 6:17:16 AM PDT by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: SMARTY

Go to the Wikipedia site for the 1995 gov shut down. As of the 3rd, it had been edited around 10 times. Ask him why an event that occurred nearly 20 years ago needs to be edited right now. The answer: lefty policital activists are rewriting history.


25 posted on 10/08/2013 6:17:25 AM PDT by Half Vast Conspiracy (Proportionally, Ft. Hood is to Ft. Worth as Washington Navy Yard is to Arlington, VA.)
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To: wku man

How did a news director end up conservative? Both my parents are editors and they are both also liberal facists


26 posted on 10/08/2013 6:17:46 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: GYPSY286

Read their post on FreeRepublic. Then tell your son what you know of us.


27 posted on 10/08/2013 6:19:34 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Need health care? Dial 1-800-F1UCK-YO to reach Obama's hotline)
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To: MrChips

Give him a copy of “Witness” by Whitakker Chambers if he wants to know the truth


28 posted on 10/08/2013 6:20:05 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: GYPSY286
He says my sources are always biased.

Any source is "biased." It's whether they're up front about it that counts. Which is why just about anything from the "objective" media is BS.

Should I just give up on him?

No, just be sure he understands that he'll be responsible for his own choices. That is, should he decide to major in Great Inuit Literature of the 17th Century, you're not going to be there to pay his bills when he - unexpectedly - can't find a job. Financial independence is a big motivator in determining one's politics; liberalism tends to fade when you don't have other people's money to engage in it.

29 posted on 10/08/2013 6:25:38 AM PDT by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1)
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To: GYPSY286

This doesn’t label colleges but offers some good information and it is a lefty site.
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/18/is_there_a_liberal_bias_in_academia_partner/


30 posted on 10/08/2013 6:26:54 AM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheel barrow)
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To: GYPSY286

You can tell he wasn’t on his own with Bush or he wouldn’t even be needing proof.


31 posted on 10/08/2013 6:27:48 AM PDT by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to thoe tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: GYPSY286

It is dangerous to rely on Wikipedia as a single, authoritative source. There’s a lot of unverified “content” and emphasis on certain aspects of topics that are not all that relevant or which stray into opinion. It may be a convenient starting place to get basic information about something but it is not a substitute for thorough research. It often reflects contributions from those with an obvious liberal bias.

He needs to learn to be intellectually honest with himself and examine multiple sources of information before developing a view on something. And that includes reading information that may be contrary to his feelings and emotions.

I wouldn’t give up on him. He will need to make many decisions in his life and needs to learn that maintaining an open and inquisitive mind will serve him well. You should cousel him to be weary of arguments that have a high emotional component, which is frequently the case with liberals.


32 posted on 10/08/2013 6:29:45 AM PDT by Starboard
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To: GYPSY286

"Is Wikipedia left leaning?"

Try searching for a page about Lois Lerner on Wikipedia. I think that will answer your question...

33 posted on 10/08/2013 6:31:06 AM PDT by Qbert ("The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry" - William F. Buckley, Jr.)
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To: GYPSY286

Wiki is edited by anyone

For the most part, for things non-political, it is pretty good because you have someone who has an interest of passion for studying the subject matter giving decent info about it

But for ANYTHING political it is useless. It is edited by the most partisan and hyper-motivated libtards

To prove this to him, ask him to look up something on any republican -vs- any libtard and see if he can spot the bias

Edit an entry yourself and show him

Go to the entry for George W Bush and make a change to it. Post a glowing love letter. See how fast it is removed by some other libtard. Either way, you have proven your point- you have your love-letter OR someone’s hate- letter, or simply the removal of what you wrote.


34 posted on 10/08/2013 6:31:08 AM PDT by Mr. K (Lies, Damned Lies, Statistics, and then Democrat Talking Points.)
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To: GYPSY286

It is hard to convince those who will not learn

Ask any black libtard why so many blacks are filing and they will *ALL* say “racism”


35 posted on 10/08/2013 6:31:59 AM PDT by Mr. K (Lies, Damned Lies, Statistics, and then Democrat Talking Points.)
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To: workerbee

Financial independence is a big motivator in determining one’s politics

********
A very good point. You could also add personal responsibility for oneself to that.


36 posted on 10/08/2013 6:34:11 AM PDT by Starboard
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To: GYPSY286

It’s about as far left as you can get.


37 posted on 10/08/2013 6:34:58 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: MrB; GYPSY286

you make an excellent point-

tell him to counter your arguments with facts of his own, not simply counter them with “you’re facts are wrong because you got them from poopyheads”

ask him to prove they are wrong on his own

(libtards are not taught how to do that, so you will have to stress that college is supposed to teach you HOW to think, not WHAT to think)


38 posted on 10/08/2013 6:35:30 AM PDT by Mr. K (Lies, Damned Lies, Statistics, and then Democrat Talking Points.)
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To: GYPSY286
Discuss ideology...the big picture. Keep it simple.

“The Bigger the Government, the smaller the Citizen.” (Dennis Prager)

Collectivism vs Individuality

Explain that Big Government = Big Bureaucracy = Waste Fraud and Inefficiency

Self Reliance vs Government Dependency

Explain that Governments and the Ruling Class Elite are historically responsible for most/all the suffering and impoverishment of individuals.

Free Enterprise vs Central Planning

39 posted on 10/08/2013 6:39:24 AM PDT by Awgie (truth is always stranger than fiction)
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To: MrB

I’ll agree they aren’t thinking about judgment day, but I’d say they are at least as concerned with holding the ‘nice’ political positions as their elders—and probably more so.


40 posted on 10/08/2013 6:43:26 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: GYPSY286
The influences from the left are relentless and persuasive in their arguments. Even when presented with facts most of them, especially the younger ones will push back saying that those are right wing facts.

I talked with my younguns about truths in history and facts in evidence. I shared some of the awakenings I had as I dropped my democrat ties some time ago and explained how hard it is to question your beliefs when all those around you hold them in such high regard.

I asked them to look hard at the trends brought about in America by liberals and whether or not any have caused improvements to our lives. None have, But, younger folks have never experienced the things older folks see slipping away, so they don't miss them. They will think it is natural to have health care dictated by the government, or to register every year for your mass transit travel pass and give your personal history of destinations and purpose for going there.

One thing you might offer is this warning about Barack Obama written by Pentagon Official, Dr. Jack Wheeler, before Obama even got the democrat nomination. The ask him to look seriously at the growing talk about Hillary Clinton as our next President even though she has never accomplished anything and has been in the middle of government misdeeds and cover ups all her life including Benghazi. If he is willing to go with the crowd and support our continued destruction he needs to take a long serious look at his motivations.

41 posted on 10/08/2013 6:56:09 AM PDT by Baynative (Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can and wine to accept the things I can't.)
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To: GYPSY286

Use it for technical material. Everything else is subject to the whims of the author of the material and any one of numerous editors. I believe the overall bent of the people running it is quite liberal and left leaning, so that filters down through all editing decisions and conflict resolution.


42 posted on 10/08/2013 7:11:31 AM PDT by ThunderSleeps (Stop obarma now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: SMARTY
Wikipedia: United States federal government shutdown of 1995–96

As of Oct 8, 7:20PDT, 27 edits have been made to this page since the “government shutdown” started.

Why would an even that happened nearly 20 years ago need so many revisions today?

Wikipedia is a vehicle for revisionist history.

43 posted on 10/08/2013 7:25:01 AM PDT by Half Vast Conspiracy (Proportionally, Ft. Hood is to Ft. Worth as Washington Navy Yard is to Arlington, VA.)
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To: GYPSY286

Bump.


44 posted on 10/08/2013 7:48:11 AM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: GYPSY286

Since anyone can edit Wiki, set up a page about him with nothing but bs.

He’s in college so he knows everything and you’re the stupidest parent who ever walked the earth. Not much you can them at this age. I’d take the terrible twos any day over 20 year olds. I hear they outgrow this.


45 posted on 10/08/2013 8:04:25 AM PDT by bgill (This reply was mined before it was posted.)
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To: GYPSY286
I was having some drinks talking to a liberal neighbor. At one point I tried to explain that Nazis, socialism and communism were all pretty much the same. Maybe like Coke and Pepsi, same thing with slightly different recipe but with so little difference it doesn't matter.

I drew a graph similar to the one below, with Anarchy on the far right and commie on the far left. Then I asked her to draw a dot where she thought the Nazis were on my chart.

She froze, her head exploded! Then I drew in the constitution to the right of center.

She could not figure out why "right wing" Nazis really belong on the left side of the chart with commies and socialism. She always thought that Nazis were the opposite of communists.

I explained how the Nazis had to have total control and massive government just like the communists did to pull off their massive destruction of humanity.

In college they teach that the tea party and our founders and Nazis are all "right wing" birds of a feather. This is a huge falsehood that seems to make a light go on when you point it out.


46 posted on 10/08/2013 8:25:16 AM PDT by bigtoona
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To: bigtoona

I have been fighting this battle for sometime, even writing an article titled “Conservatives are Centrists”. Your chart is right on the money and reveals the lie the left promotes that Nazis are right-wing. I never let anyone get away with that, even in their passing remarks.


47 posted on 10/08/2013 8:47:51 AM PDT by trubolotta
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To: trubolotta

Its very similar to the lie where Republicans are racists and democrats are champions of the minorities and the poor.

The history of the democrats fighting against the civil rights movement, the civil war, KKK etc has been almost completely erased.

College students should ask their teachers why this history is never discussed and if the democrat party actually changed or if it just found a better way to take advantage of blacks and minorities.


48 posted on 10/08/2013 9:08:47 AM PDT by bigtoona
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To: GYPSY286

Ask your son to use wikipedia to research relationships between:

a) British peerage and financial elites
b) higher education
c) the Fabian Society
d) Socialism / Communism
e) American financial elites

during the 19th century.


49 posted on 10/08/2013 4:13:54 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: yldstrk
"How did a news director end up conservative?"

Just lucky, I guess. No seriously...believe it or not, there are more conservatives than you would think in radio news, at least at the local level. Not so much TV, where, from my experience, most news department types are just young and clueless, while management and more senior reporters and producers are flaming libs. Print media? Forget it...they all have hammers and sickles tattooed on their scalps.

I guess the fact that I'm a life-long conservative, and therefore have a brain that I'm capable of using, is the biggest reason I'm a former news director, and starting up my own organization. Wish me luck!

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

50 posted on 10/08/2013 8:27:52 PM PDT by wku man (It's almost deer season, got your DEERGOGGLES on yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jexrnFq2fXY)
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