Posted on 07/22/2014 11:44:48 AM PDT by IChing
Hmm, lets see, a 6′ 4″, 400-lb career criminalwith 31 prior arrests on a variety of charges ranging from drug possession to assaultadamantly refuses to be taken into custody by police who are investigating yet another an alleged crime by him (while he is out on bail facing 3 other charges), and he starts actively resisting when they try to handcuff him..
Then, in the ensuing struggle, he has a heart attack while being subdued by multiple officers, one of them using what many cops posting in online forums are insisting is not actually the form of choke-hold banned for use by the NYPD, but merely a quick take-down restraint technique, which protects the throat and windpipe while moving the subject to the prone position by steering the headand thereby the bodyin that direction.
The suspect, chronic street hustler and asthmatic diabetic Eric Garner, loses consciousness while being restrained on the sidewalk, and is transported to the hospital by paramedics where he is pronounced dead on arrival.
The next day, syndicated radio host Michael Savagejust as he did in the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case last yearloudly bellows blatantly dubious personal presumptions about the incident (such as, he wasnt doing anything!) at the top of his program, and the top of his lungs, and millions of blindly rabid cop-haters pile on in countless other distorted forums.
Ignoring facts such as the extensive criminal history and overwhelming size of the subject, and other factors which point more to it being an accidental death (due to the suspects grave health issues and non-compliance) than a homicide caused by rogue cops, the howling masses all scream for the cops to be fired and/or charged with various crimes.
How would Savage, or any other supposed impartial party who wasnt there, know what Garner was or wasnt doing, during any amount of time prior to the video?
Remember, this Eric Garner incident comes hot on the heels of a 23-year-old rookie NYC-area cop being recently murdered in cold blood by another career criminal, whose wife announced on video, at a community event memorializing and glorifying the cop-killer, that she wished her husband had killed more cops.
Theres no denying that there are racial dynamics being brought to bear, appropriately or not, in this and countless other incidents having to do with crime and police work.
However, even left-wing New York City mayor Bill de Blasio went on record to clarify a crucial aspect of the matter saying, Not wanting to be arrested does not grant an individual the right to resist arrest, nor does it free the officers of the obligation to make the arrest.
What do you think would happen, to society and to the overall effectiveness of law enforcement, if every time an actively resisting suspect protested loudly that they couldnt breathe, or otherwise demanded that the cops needed to let off and let up on them while attempting to take them into custody, and got their way? What if the police just took their word for it, and let the perp call the shots?
Eric Garners death was avoidable, thats for sure. Of course, I wasnt there either, but based on Garners long rap sheet of priors, I give the cops at the scene the benefit of the doubt as to having probable cause to arrest him for illegally selling cigarettes.
Furthermore, it was Garners choice to use the tactics of protest, and loudly claim that he was being harassed by the cops while putting up his hands to fight them off as they tried to cuff himhe caused the situation which resulted in his experiencing cardiac arrest, because he resisted arrest instead of letting the court (where he was headed this October anyway, to face 3 previous charges) sort it all out.
The politically realistic outcome of this, I expect, is that the officer who used the controversial take-down will be thrown under the bus for it, since it is close enough to a choke-hold that even the police union wont be able to save his job from the seething mobs demanding his scalp.
While its true that these days we are being exposed to increasing amounts of evidence of police brutality and abuse of authority by badge-heavy cops across the land, especially with the proliferation of cell phone recordings and the surfeit of internet videos on social media, nonetheless we have to weigh all known factors, and consider a myriad of unknown factors carefully when confronted with recorded incidents such as the Eric Garner case, and the recent roadway apprehension of a black female wherein the white male officer punched her repeatedly in order to subdue her. Such videos contain highly provocative but often also very abbreviated information, imagery, and actions, which may or may not allow viewers to reach accurate conclusions about what really took place, and especially why.
As I said, Im giving the cops in this case the benefit of the doubt here, for now. Based on what Ive stated, I think you should tooand Im as serious as a heart attack when I command you not to dance to Al Sharptons blaring megaphone when it comes to this, or any other episode.
Al indicators point to morbid obesity and other grave health issues, criminal lifestyle and activity, plus resistjng arrest. Any further questions?
NYPD Chokes 400-lb Man to Death... for Breaking Up a Fight
That is the headline that came in on my e-mail this morning. I have not yet opened it.
NYPD Chokes 400-lb Man to Death... for Breaking Up a Fight
OK, I opened that e-mail and nothing in it mentions breaking up a fight. I don’t know where that stupid headline originated.
It does mention his 31 prior arrests, though.
It also has him (in video) saying “I can’t breathe”. If you can’t breathe, you can’t talk. He was breathing, but the heart attack in progress was preventing him from processing the oxygen (shortness of breath is one of the symptoms).
As with recognizing the role of a cornerback in a game of football, recognizing the role of a lookout in a narcotics operation has nothing to do with sentiment or one's "heart of hearts."
It simply requires basic knowledge of how the game is played.
The union representative (who probably hasn't seen the inside of an ambulance in years) basically lied to the press and said that the EMTs were supposed to give him oxygen.
They are only required to do that if his breathing is noticeably labored.
They checked his pulse, they saw he was breathing, they put him on the gurney.
They did their job.
But the union rep, Israel Miranda - like all union reps - is a politician first, last and always.
The left is running with this nonsense, it's looking like a lucrative witchhunt, and he'd rather to the popular thing than the right thing.
Oh that's easy.
The guy who took the cellphone video also added his highly intelligent commentary to the video:
"This guy . . . right here . . . be tryna lock somebody up . . . for tryna break up a fight . . . this s*** right here is crazy."
So you can take that one to the bank, obviously.
It also has him (in video) saying I cant breathe. If you cant breathe, you cant talk.
This not very controversial fact seems to have taxed the reasoning power of many a FReeper lately.
I live in NYC, and if standing on the street proves you’re involved in drugs, to you, I would guess you have never been here. I don’t know he wasn’t doing it, but you certainly don’t know he was.
And your football analogy is quite poor.
I was born and raised in NYC. I have lived and worked or both in NYC for 40 years. I've certainly spent more time in Tottenville/St. George than you have.
If you think this 350lb guy was just standing on the street in almost 90 degree weather in front of a supermarket for hours because that's how he enjoys spending hsi free time, you not only don't understand NYC, you don't understand human nature.
And your football analogy is quite poor.
Football and narcotics distribution are activities that have basic internal rules understood not only by the players but also by the spectators.
To the ignorant, its just a bunch of guys running around a field for no reason, or just a bunch of guys loitering on the street by themselves in specific spots day in and day out for no reason.
Those who observe, rather than just stare, figure out what is going on.
I’ve lived in NYC longer, but that’s not the point.
The guy had been arrested before for selling cigarettes.
The cops used an illegal chokehold on him.
The victim said he could not breathe.
After he went unconscious, the cops stood around laughing.
The victim is dead.
Your concern is that you believe he may have been a drug lookout. So far, there has been zero proof to something you believe to be factual.
Most importantly, even if he was a drug lookout, he did not deserve what he got. When criminals commit crimes, they should be prosecuted. You believe cops should be treated differently. Why?
I worked for a security company, where management was all retired NYC police officers. Every day they told stories of their time on the force. Some of the stories were of beating up drug dealers, stealing their drugs and cash, and splitting the proceeds among themselves. After telling these types of stories, they would all laugh.
Until cops are bound by the same rules as the rest of us, it’s a joke.
But you “know” what really happened.
Not true.
The video shows clearly there was no chokehold - confirmed both visually and audibly.
After he went unconscious, the cops stood around laughing.
Actually they checked his pulse and sent for EMTs.
The victim is dead.
A guy had a fatal heart attack. There is no "victim."
Most importantly, even if he was a drug lookout, he did not deserve what he got.
He didn't "get" anything.
A morbidly obese middle aged man who had been standing in near 90 degree heat for hours, who was - according to his family - a diabetic asthmatic with high blood pressure had a fatal heart attack.
If he had decided to play a pickup game of basketball or football at that particular moment, and another player had put a hard moving pick on him, or tackled him, and he passed out and died of a heart attack in an ambulance - would the opposing player have "murdered" him?
Would he be a "victim" of a moving pick?
If someone said: "Man, he shouldn't have been playing in this heat given his condition" would the rational response to that correct and completely uncontroversial statement be: "WHAT! Are you saying he deserved to be killed by that opposing player? Are you saying that the penalty for being sloppy in the paint is death!"
This guy decided to get into a physical confrontation - one that turned out to be very brief and not very violent at all, and even then his ticker wasn't up to it. This is a guy who was ready to go the next time he significantly exerted himself. Luckily for the ambulance chasers, he was resisting arrest instead of climbing a set of stairs when it happened.
Some of the stories were of
Ah, thirdhand anecdotal evidence. Should I uncritically accept it? Probably not.
If the stories were true, why would anyone who committed felonies describe them in detail to outsiders? If the NYPD are truly nothing but a "blue Mafia" why would they blatantly violate one of the guiding principles of the Mafia and discuss these things with outsiders?
But you know what really happened.
I use logic and observation, rather than getting worked up into an emotional lather.
How many morbidly obese people do you know who spend their time in the summer standing out on the street in direct sun?
When was the last time you decided, just for kicks, to stand around on a hot sidewalk for hours in the middle of the day doing nothing?
By the way, you apparently "know" that the cop used a chokehold, even though you have seen video that demonstrates that he wasn't.
You presume a lot of knowledge that is actually refuted by concrete evidence.
I guess all of the cops I know were lying and all of the scandals through the years involving the rampant corruption in the NYPD have been isolated cases.
Difficult to believe that someone who has lived in NYC for so long doesn’t understand how NYPD functions.
You probably believed all of the cops when they said Abner Louima got hurt having gay sex.
That is one of several possible ways of looking at it.
Of course, it would depend in large part on how loosely one defines "rampant."
Difficult to believe that someone who has lived in NYC for so long doesnt understand how NYPD functions.
So that's your experience then?
The NYPD is just one large criminal enterprise that doesn't do any actual police work?
This is more hipsterish cynicism than analysis.
The statistics refute your anecdotes.
You probably believed all of the cops when they said Abner Louima got hurt having gay sex.
So when I specifically express skepticism about dubious anecdotes, you think what I really mean is that I unthinkingly buy into dubious anecdotes?
As it turns out, both Justin Volpe and Abner Louima were lying about the events of that day.
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