NOSC Commander and Marine used sidearms to engage Chattanooga Jihadi

Gun Watch ^ | 23 July, 2015 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

The Navy Times reports that the installation commander and a Marine engaged the Chattanooga Jihadi with sidearms during the attack.  From the navytimes.com:

A report distributed among senior Navy leaders during the shooting's aftermath said Lt. Cmdr. Timothy White, the support center's commanding officer, used his personal firearm to engage Abdulazeez, Navy Times confirmed with four separate sources. A Navy official also confirmed a Washington Post report indicating one of the slain Marines may have been carrying a 9mm Glock and possibly returned fire on the gunman.

From the comments, Mark Keith states that :

gunnery sergeant sullivan eel to his POV and returned armed and engaged the shooter. It's going to come out one way or another. At least they went down fighting for there men.

It seems a plausible scenario, but I have not seen any validation of it.  I put it in the category of rumor at the moment.

It seems likely that the  Lt. Cmdr. Timothy White, the support center's commanding officer, and the unnamed Marine engaging the Jihadi, significantly reduced the number of casualties.  That is the pattern that has emerged at other mass shootings. 

My compilation of mass shootings stopped by armed Americans shows that of the 22 cases found so far, 18 of them were stopped by people inside of the situation, while only four were stopped by people from outside who recognized the situation and had time to intervene.

Certainly Lt. Cmdr White and the unnamed Marine exhibited valor in the face of enemy attack.  They should be recognized and held up as an example of the best that our service members can be.   It says much of how this administration is viewed by many, that a significant number of comments expect White to be disciplined, rather than rewarded.  From the comments:

 It will be a damn shame if the military slap them with a UCMJ actions. It won't surprise me though.

and

 And I bet they will be punished for having weapons...

UCMJ is the Uniform Code of Military Justice.  It is the manual for punishing people in the military.  I do not see punishment as likely.  The political costs are too high.

I can see the calls for commendations rising.  They are already in the comments section.  It will not be long before a political candidate will recognize that the desire to recognize the bravery of these men will resonate with the electorate.  It will not be President Obama who firsts suggests it.  My bet is that it will be Donald Trump.

©2015 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
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[marktwain]

Installation commanders have traditionally been allowed to write the rules on who can be armed on their installation.

[Bringbackthedraft]

LOL. Great, this is now going to be sold as Commander and Marine open fire on driver in a convertible because he was a Muslim. The driver was only trying to protect himself. CBS MSNBC et. al. should pick this up shortly.

[exnavy]

And the uniparty elitists in DC should give the American people back the God given right taken away by our governments to carry anyway, anytime any firearm for our self-preservation. This is the most important topic for our leaders to address, are you listening big mouth combover? Not security at the boarder, security at home and wirk.

[exnavy]

Sry, work.

[T-Bird45]

Oh, there will be punishment, Dean, but it may not be via the UCMJ. The LCDR will see a minimum of a letter of reprimand put in his personnel jacket. His promotions are at an end and there are likely some very unfavorable assignment orders being written to send him some place very unpleasant very soon. Book it.

[jagusafr]

And if he’s got any sense, he’ll hire a former JAG defense attorney who will ride the “inherent right of self-defense” horse for all it’s worth.

[DavidLSpud]

“It’s not that they die, but that they die like sheep.”

NOPE!

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Luke 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=AKJV&quicksearch=+sword&begin=47&end=73

[BlueNgold]

yes they can write arming directives, but I doubt an O4 had the authority to allow personal weapons.

However, this narrative has them going to a POV to retrieve a weapon. This may shift the response.

But the U.S. Military has zero interest in “encouraging” service members from exercising their 2nd ammdt rights off duty, or maintaining weapons in their vehicles.

Should be interesting...

[T-Bird45]

I’ve never heard of fighting a letter of reprimand via JAG. Tell me more about how that works, please. I always thought that’s why commanders like to use those for disciplining officers by affecting their career.

[smokingfrog]

Interesting. First I’ve heard of this.

[jagusafr]

My statement was geared more toward if they try to do an Art. 15 or CM. But defense counsel can also help him craft a written response to the LOR, which MUST be included in his PIF (personnel information file in AirForceSpeak).

[T-Bird45]

OK, we’re in agreement. NJP or CM = get thee to JAG ASAP. LOR = JAG can assist in a response that can go into the file with the LOR. Then, it’s a crap shoot as to what a promotions board will do with the info. Fortunately, he’s already made the first hurdle and got to Field Grade now the question is O-5 and making it past any RIF boards while hoping to slide into retirement at 20. IMO, he’s got too many things working against him, even if they just go LOR. I hope I’m wrong...

[jagusafr]

If it’s a desk drawer LOR (pretty much not allowed for officers anymore), there should be no record of it for any board to see. If they start a UIF on him and put the LOR in it, his response has to be included. Each of those things has a shelf life (not sure what USN’s policy is). Congressional inquiry, etc. is also a potential course of action, as well as the court of public opinion (media pressure works). If he gets separated before 20 (very difficult to do to an O-4), then it’s on to the BCMR.

Like a lawyer I’ve litigated against once said, he can drag it out “like a dawg with two broke legs” if he’s of a mind.

[T-Bird45]

If he gets separated before 20 (very difficult to do to an O-4), then it’s on to the BCMR.

Saw it happen in the post-Vietnam Army RIF so it's not totally unknown. Saw an O-3 have to go back to the E-6 rank he held before OCS to complete his 20. It was an extremely ugly time and exacerbated by pusillanimous politicians like Billy Carter's brother.