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Judge Smacks Down Trump’s Ted Cruz Birther Claims, and Hardly Anyone Covers It
Law Newz ^ | March 20, 2016 | Rachel Stockman

Posted on 03/21/2016 8:55:40 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

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To: SubMareener
Interesting and thoughtful reply. However, I'd like to respectfully take issue with this: "All this moral decay was initiated by Judges".

Judges can render decisions that allow for decadent behavior but each individual is still responsible for their own actions.

81 posted on 03/21/2016 1:04:18 PM PDT by cowboyway ("Give me a beer or two and I'll be fine, at least that's worked every other time....")
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To: Cboldt

I was talking about Canadian citizenship with someone who claims he wasn’t really a Canadian citizen and only renounced it for show


82 posted on 03/21/2016 1:11:52 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Prayer for Victory is the ONLY way to support the troops!)
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To: itsahoot

There are too many articles out there saying the same for me to believe I’m just making this up.


83 posted on 03/21/2016 1:13:40 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Prayer for Victory is the ONLY way to support the troops!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Neither is canada. If the judge says Cruz is a citizen with all rights, then why did congress need to pass a resolution for McCain who had two US citizens for parents?


84 posted on 03/21/2016 1:14:29 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: xzins
-- I was talking about Canadian citizenship with someone who claims he wasn't really a Canadian citizen and only renounced it for show --

Got it. FWIW, no country will issue "renunciation papers" without being given evidence that the person is a citizen of that country. IOW, it is necessary to establish citizenship, in order to get a formal Certification of Renounciation.

85 posted on 03/21/2016 1:18:34 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: itsahoot
Right here on FR. If you have access to them pleas post same here.

I've seen several references by Trump supporters to "sealed records" here on FR. I've discounted them since there is no conceivable need for any of Cruz' birth records to be sealed, writing it off as misinformation. I'll hold to that assessment.

86 posted on 03/21/2016 2:51:34 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: itsahoot
Right here on FR. If you have access to them pleas post same here.

I've seen several references by Trump supporters to "sealed records" here on FR. I've discounted them since there is no conceivable need for any of Cruz' birth records to be sealed, writing it off as misinformation. I'll hold to that assessment.

87 posted on 03/21/2016 2:51:37 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: xzins
“Canadian law contains a similar principle. Ever since Canadian citizenship was first granted on January 1, 1947, an individual has been considered to be a Canadian citizen if he/she was born in Canada. ,/i>

Actually, Canadian citizenship law is irrelevant to the discussion -- U.S. citizenship law is controlling. Understand that, quite logically, one country's citizenship laws cannot be secondary to another nation's citizenship laws.

Under U.S. law, Cruz was a U.S. citizen the moment he hit the delivery table. The only circumstance under which the U.S. would recognize Cruz' Canadian citizenship would be if he ever chose to opt for it (which he was eligible to do under Canadian law), renouncing his American citizenship in the process.

Since he never made that choice, Cruz was never anything but a U.S. citizen -- under U.S. citizenship law.

88 posted on 03/21/2016 3:00:29 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: okie01

Your logic is misguided, and the facts are also against you


89 posted on 03/21/2016 3:03:50 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Prayer for Victory is the ONLY way to support the troops!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Note the reference to Natural Law in the first sentence of our Declaration of Independence.

It is crystal clear that the Founding Fathers used the Natural Law definition of 'natural born Citizen' when they wrote Article II. By invoking "The Laws of Nature and Nature's God" the 56 signers of the Declaration incorporated a legal standard of freedom into the forms of government that would follow.

President John Quincy Adams, writing in 1839, looked back at the founding period and recognized the true meaning of the Declaration's reliance on the "Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." He observed that the American people's "charter was the Declaration of Independence. Their rights, the natural rights of mankind. Their government, such as should be instituted by the people, under the solemn mutual pledges of perpetual union, founded on the self-evident truth's proclaimed in the Declaration."

The Constitution, Vattel, and “Natural Born Citizen”: What Our Framers Knew

The Laws of Nature and of Nature's God: The True Foundation of American Law

The Supreme Court of the United States has never applied the term “natural born citizen” to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”.

MINOR V. HAPPERSETT IS BINDING PRECEDENT AS TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL DEFINITION OF A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.

Neither the 14th Amendment nor Wong Kim Ark make one a Natural Born Citizen

The Harvard Law Review Article Taken Apart Piece by Piece and Utterly Destroyed

Citizenship Terms Used in the U.S. Constitution - The 5 Terms Defined & Some Legal Reference to Same

"The citizenship of no man could be previous to the declaration of independence, and, as a natural right, belongs to none but those who have been born of citizens since the 4th of July, 1776."....David Ramsay, 1789.

A Dissertation on Manner of Acquiring Character & Privileges of Citizen of U.S.-by David Ramsay-1789

The Law of Nations or the Principles of Natural Law (1758)

The Laws of Nature and of Nature's God: The True Foundation of American Law

Publications of the Colonial Society of Massachusetts, Volume 20 - Use of The Law of Nations by the Constitutional Convention

The Biggest Cover-up in American History

Supreme Court cases that cite “natural born Citizen” as one born on U.S. soil to citizen parents:

The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)

Vattel, who, though not very full to this point, is more explicit and more satisfactory on it than any other whose work has fallen into my hands, says: “The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens. Society not being able to subsist and to perpetuate itself but by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.

Shanks v. Dupont, 28 U.S. 3 Pet. 242 242 (1830)

Ann Scott was born in South Carolina before the American revolution, and her father adhered to the American cause and remained and was at his death a citizen of South Carolina. There is no dispute that his daughter Ann, at the time of the Revolution and afterwards, remained in South Carolina until December, 1782. Whether she was of age during this time does not appear. If she was, then her birth and residence might be deemed to constitute her by election a citizen of South Carolina. If she was not of age, then she might well be deemed under the circumstances of this case to hold the citizenship of her father, for children born in a country, continuing while under age in the family of the father, partake of his national character as a citizen of that country. Her citizenship, then, being prima facie established, and indeed this is admitted in the pleadings, has it ever been lost, or was it lost before the death of her father, so that the estate in question was, upon the descent cast, incapable of vesting in her? Upon the facts stated, it appears to us that it was not lost and that she was capable of taking it at the time of the descent cast.

Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857)

The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As society cannot perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their parents, and succeed to all their rights.' Again: 'I say, to be of the country, it is necessary to be born of a person who is a citizen; for if he be born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country. . . .

Minor v. Happersett , 88 U.S. 162 (1875)

The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.

United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)

At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.

Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939),

Was a decision by the Supreme Court of the United States that a child born in the United States to naturalized parents on U.S. soil is a natural born citizen and that the child's natural born citizenship is not lost if the child is taken to and raised in the country of the parents' origin, provided that upon attaining the age of majority, the child elects to retain U.S. citizenship "and to return to the United States to assume its duties." Not only did the court rule that she did not lose her native born Citizenship but it upheld the lower courts decision that she is a "natural born Citizen of the United States" because she was born in the USA to two naturalized U.S. Citizens.

But the Secretary of State, according to the allegation of the bill of complaint, had refused to issue a passport to Miss Elg 'solely on the ground that she had lost her native born American citizenship.' The court below, properly recognizing the existence of an actual controversy with the defendants [307 U.S. 325, 350] (Aetna Life Ins. Co. v. Haworth, 300 U.S. 227 , 57 S.Ct. 461, 108 A.L.R. 1000), declared Miss Elg 'to be a natural born citizen of the United States' (99 F.2d 414) and we think that the decree should include the Secretary of State as well as the other defendants. The decree in that sense would in no way interfere with the exercise of the Secretary's discretion with respect to the issue of a passport but would simply preclude the denial of a passport on the sole ground that Miss Elg had lost her American citizenship."

The Supreme Court of the United States has never applied the term “natural born citizen” to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”.

Citizenship Terms Used in the U.S. Constitution - The 5 Terms Defined & Some Legal Reference to Same

"The citizenship of no man could be previous to the declaration of independence, and, as a natural right, belongs to none but those who have been born of citizens since the 4th of July, 1776."....David Ramsay, 1789.

A Dissertation on Manner of Acquiring Character & Privileges of Citizen of U.S.-by David Ramsay-1789

The Law of Nations or the Principles of Natural Law (1758)

The Laws of Nature and of Nature's God: The True Foundation of American Law

Publications of the Colonial Society of Massachusetts, Volume 20 - Use of The Law of Nations by the Constitutional Convention

The Biggest Cover-up in American History

If there is extensive law written that covers election fraud, but it is impossible to enforce, or if a sufficient number of people agree that So-and-So is the President or Pope despite the law, how does that not utterly, completely destroy the entire notion of the Rule of Law itself? As I have said for years with regards to Obama, if you can’t enforce Article II Section 1 Clause 5 of the Constitution, what can you enforce? Can you enforce the border? Can you enforce citizenship? Equal protection? Search and seizure? Right to bear arms? Can you enforce the law against treason? Theft? Murder? Trafficking in body parts? Religious persecution?

Mark Levin Attacks Birthers: Admits He Hasn't Studied Issue; Declares Canadian-Born Cruz Eligible

Not much information exists on why the Third Congress (under the lead of James Madison and the approval of George Washington) deleted "natural born" from the Naturalization Act of 1790 when it passed the Naturalization Act of 1795. There is virtually no information on the subject because they probably realized that the First Congress committed errors when it passed the Naturalization Act of 1790 and did not want to create a record of the errors.

It can be reasonably argued that Congress realized that under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, Congress is given the power to make uniform laws on naturalization and that this power did not include the power to decide who is included or excluded from being a presidential Article II "natural born Citizen." While Congress has passed throughout United States history many statutes declaring who shall be considered nationals and citizens of the United States at birth and thereby exempting such persons from having to be naturalized under naturalization laws, at no time except by way of the short-lived "natural born" phrase in Naturalization Act of 1790 did it ever declare these persons to be "natural born Citizens."

The uniform definition of "natural born Citizen" was already provided by the law of nations and was already settled. The Framers therefore saw no need nor did they give Congress the power to tinker with that definition. Believing that Congress was highly vulnerable to foreign influence and intrigue, the Framers, who wanted to keep such influence out of the presidency, did not trust Congress when it came to who would be President, and would not have given Congress the power to decide who shall be President by allowing it to define what an Article II "natural born Citizen " is.

Additionally, the 1790 act was a naturalization act. How could a naturalization act make anyone an Article II "natural born Citizen?" After all, a "natural born Citizen" was made by nature at the time of birth and could not be so made by any law of man.

Natural Born Citizen Through the Eyes of Early Congresses

Harvard Law Review Article FAILS to Establish Ted Cruz as Natural Born Citizen

Watch: Mark Levin declares Ted Cruz a "Naturalized Citizen"

Mark Levin Attacks Birthers: Admits He Hasn't Studied Issue; Declares Canadian-Born Cruz Eligible

The settled law of the land is that the US President must be a natural born citizen, and that to be a natural born citizen, you must have been born in the United States to parents both of whom were US citizens when you were born.

You may disagree with the goal of the Constitutional Convention, and/or with the means they chose to achieve it. But it's not a technicality, not an anachronism no longer relevant in modern times, nor is it racist. Especially in modern times, it enables persons of any race or ethnic heritage to become President. And it's what the Constitution requires.

You may also disagree with binding precedent regarding the meaning of "natural born citizen" as established in Minor. But in our system, the Constitution, and the Supreme Court's interpretation of it, are the "supreme law of the land." And if one faction gets to disregard the Constitution and/or the Supreme Court because they disagree, then that sets a precedent where all other factions can do the same.

Any Argument Against the Natural Law Definition of "Natural Born Citizen" Can easily be Defeated Here

90 posted on 03/21/2016 3:06:15 PM PDT by Godebert (CRUZ: Born in a foreign land to a foreign father.)
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To: xzins
Your logic is misguided, and the facts are also against you

According to you. But suit yourself...

91 posted on 03/21/2016 3:12:31 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: okie01

I cirtd sources. You have given nothing except your own opinion. Canada is one of 2 countries with anchor baby citizenship laws. The US is the other. It’s just a fact.


92 posted on 03/21/2016 3:15:24 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Prayer for Victory is the ONLY way to support the troops!)
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To: xzins
You have given nothing except your own opinion. Based on a knowledge of the prevailing 1954 U.S. Citizenship Law in particular and international application of Citizenship Laws, in general.

FWIW, I studied this $hit in college.

But, suit yourself...

93 posted on 03/21/2016 3:24:05 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: okie01

Canadian law says Cruz was a citizen at birth simply by virtue of being born there. To whom did Cruz apply to renounce his Canadian citizenship?


94 posted on 03/21/2016 3:27:50 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Prayer for Victory is the ONLY way to support the troops!)
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To: Cboldt

That case deals with an entirely different issue from whether one is a natural born citizen for purposes of eligibility for the Presidency.


95 posted on 03/21/2016 3:28:22 PM PDT by mak5
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To: cowboyway

Interesting and thoughtful reply. However, I’d like to respectfully take issue with this: “All this moral decay was initiated by Judges”.

- - - - -
Maybe I should say: “All this moral decay was codified by Judges”.


96 posted on 03/21/2016 3:33:58 PM PDT by SubMareener (Save us from Quarterly Freepathons! Become a MONTHLY DONOR!)
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To: mak5
-- That case deals with an entirely different issue from whether one is a natural born citizen for purposes of eligibility for the Presidency. --

Yes, it does. However, it relies on a citizenship principle that can be (and is) applied to all persons born abroad.

How the law views Bellei (as a natural born citizen vs. as a naturalized citizen) can be applied to any person whose birth circumstances are similar to Bellei's.

97 posted on 03/21/2016 3:36:00 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: xzins
Canadian law says Cruz was a citizen at birth simply by virtue of being born there.

That would be according to Canadian citizenship law. But, according to U.S. citizenship law, he was born a U.S. citizen. And, in this case, U.S. citizenship law is controlling while Canadian citizenship law is irrelevant.

To whom did Cruz apply to renounce his Canadian citizenship?

Presumably, a Canadian consulate or their embassy. However, the action wasn't legally necessary and would've been done only for PR purposes.

98 posted on 03/21/2016 4:15:41 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: okie01; Cboldt; DoughtyOne

You are undercut by Cruz’s own actions. He applied to Canada. He used the Canadian application. It is public. A Canadian official signed it. If he was not a Canadian citizen they wouldn’t have been signatory to false document. They would have said he was not a Canadian citizen so there would be no need to fill out the form that Cruz did fill out and have lawfully filed.


99 posted on 03/21/2016 4:23:20 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Prayer for Victory is the ONLY way to support the troops!)
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To: okie01
Cruz's US citizenship was conditional. First he had to present his claim in order to have it adjudicated by the US. If he sat on his claim, he would lose it. If he exercised the claim and did not meet the US residence conditions (5 continuous years presence in the US between ages of 14 and 23), the US citizenship that was recognized would be lost. That's what happened to Bellei.

P.L. 414 - 1952 Naturalization Act see sections 301(a)(7) and 301(b)

100 posted on 03/21/2016 4:34:21 PM PDT by Cboldt
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