Is the .308 ammo viable for long range hunting?

Am Shooting Journal ^ | 9/14/2016 | J Hines

[outofsalt]

"What weapons are enemy snipers in Afghanistan using to outgun ours?"

I'm not sure, but back in 1996 when Illary came to Bosnia under intense sniper fire they missed every shot.

[OldMissileer]

“.....to shoot out to 1,000 years.”

That’s a loooong bullet flight!

Yep. I want me one of them. :-)

[Carthego delenda est]

Lol!

I still have my heavy barrel Savage 110, though I don’t play with it too often anymore. Took it as far as I could with tuning it up and just about every possible hand load combination. Excellent rifle and even better price.

[Disambiguator]

As I recall, the .308 was the 7.62 NATO developed for the M-14 by necking down the .30-06.

A .270 Win is a necked-down 30-06. .308 and 30-06 use the same diameter bullets. .308 is a shorter cartridge case.

Here endeth the lesson.

[RC one]

It’s capable of shooting past 1,000 yards in the right hands but there are definitely better choices that use the same sized rifle and action.

[doorgunner69]

I always wished the M-14 had been essentially a detachable-magazine M-1 Garand, retaining the .30-06: basically, a sleek, light successor to the BAR.

In most ways, it is an improved Garand with detachable magazine. Improved gas system major difference. Trigger groups almost identical.

The full auto capability of the M-14 was a joke, inasmuch at it was indeed a light successor to the BAR. Just about uncontrollable, with no improvement in magazine capacity.

[ScoochDude]

I can’t tell you how many deer I’ve taken with my .308 past 300 yards. If it’s good enough for our military snipers, it’s good enough for me.

[BwanaNdege]

” I don’t see any sport in the latter. I’m impressed by a good hunter who knows how to track his quarry and has the patience to take it when the time is right.”

https://www.amazon.com/White-Feather-Carlos-Hathcock-Sniper/dp/1885633092

White Feather: Carlos Hathcock, USMC Scout Sniper

I’m not trying to say that sniping is “sport”; it is not. It is killing other men before they kill your men.

Read it and get back to us. If you are “impressed by a good hunter who knows how to track his quarry and has the patience to take it when the time is right”, then Carlos Hathcock will amaze you.

[WENDLE]

Actual kills by snipers at 1600 meters with proper grain count . Need good scope and lots of practice and no wind, good luck.

[CommerceComet]

It might not be the best long-range caliber out there but I believe that problems with a .308 at long-range have more to do with the shooter than with the round. The .308 is a very versatile and capable rifle caliber.

[buffaloguy]

Iirc, the longest known civilian shot was 3100 yards with a .308.

Greased a prairie dog on the third shot. In Texas.

[Old Yeller]

I highly recommend the .380 for long range. Not the 308. I’m talking 1000 meters.

One of those little pea shooter pistols?

[LouieFisk]

“I’m not trying to say that sniping is “sport”; it is not. It is killing other men before they kill your men.”
==
I didn’t think you meant to say it or imply it. I’m just sayin’ in my book one would be considered a sport, i.e. “hunting”. Others millage will vary on the long range v. tracking question, tho. Has nothing to do with military sniping.

[Jack Black]

There are two different things that effect the suitability of a given round for long range hunting. Trajectory and terminal ballistics.

The first is the trajectory. Basically trajectory is determined by the initial velocity of the round and the ballestic coefficient of the bullet.

Faster rounds go further per second, and therefore drop less (gravity pulls uniformly on all falling objects over time). More aerodynamic bullets (higher ballistic coefficient, or BC) are more slippery and lose speed more slowly.

Terminal ballistics are how much smash the bullet hits with, which can be figured out different ways, but two major factors are again retained velocity and bullet weight, as well as diameter.

So put all this together. To hit things at a long distance you want a fast moving bullet. The .300 Win Mag can use all the same bullets as the .308, but pushes them quite a bit faster. That's going to mean they shoot flatter, are less effected by wind, and will overall make target acquisition easier.

The will also hit harder for any given weight of bullet, because the retained velocity will be higher.

You can go at all this backwards to find a good long distance hunting round.

Start with how heavy a bullet you'd like to have hitting the game. For deer you might say 125 grains or more. Then you can look at what hunting bullets in that range have high BCs.

I'll use Barnes for an example: (because I like Barnes). They have a purpose built Long Range Hunting bullet, the LRX. The series includes 6.5mm, .270, 7mm, .30 and .338 calibers. The best BC is the .338, which is .667. The worst (of these which are all pretty good) is the .270 which is .463. The best .30 is damn good: a 200gr at .546.

If recoil is not an concern, assuming you can drive all the bullets at similar speeds, the .338 will be superior. It will hold onto velocity longer, and it will hit harder by virtue of going faster 'out there' and being a bigger, heavier bullet. But at 280 grains is more than 2x heavier what people commonly think is needed to kill deer with.

In summary: .308 has fine long range bullets, but will be a bit on the low end for flat trajectories.

Just using a convenient chart a similar (168 gr) bullet leaves the barrel at 2700 FPS and has about 49 inches of drop when zero'd at 200 yards. It hits with 1239 ft/pds of energy. 1000 ft/pds is often considered minimum for deer sized game. Yes, it's a good round.

Let's move up to the big .338 and see what it looks like. I'm using a 250gr Rem Ultra Mag (cause that's what I have a table for handy): The 250gr bullet leaves the muzzle at 2860 fps, and with a long range 200 yd. zero (like above) drops 45 inches at 500 yards. Almost the same as the .308. It hits considerably harder, delivering 1960 fl/lbs at 500 yards. It's a better long range choice, especially for an elk or something that size.

Let's go the other direction. How about a much faster lighter bullet. The 6.5mm is the current long distance match flavor. So lets say you go with a very fast 6.5 w/ a high ballistic coefficient bullet.

Again, using Remington factory tables to get an approximate feel the .264 WinMag puts out a 140gr pill at 3030fps. It drops only 41" at 500 yards (200 yd. zero) and has 1139 fps of energy.

You can see the smaller 6.5mm round shoots flatter than the .308 and hits just about as hard at long distance. Most people would say that it is a better long distance hunting round.

But that's not to say that the .308 won't work fine. .308 has many other advantages including being easy to find, having cheap practice ammo and surplus available, having a lot of shooters who know about it, having a huge variety of .30 caliber bullets to choose from and being chambered in many more guns, including lever actions.

But few people looking to build a purpose built long range hunting rig would choose it. If they wanted a .30 caliber (with many of the same virtues of the .308) they would use a .300 Win Mag.

If they wanted the flattest shooting round to ease target acquisition, without getting into booming big bores they would use something like the 6.5/06 wildcat, .264 WinMag.

If they wanted both flat trajectory and maximum power at rage the .338 Lapua.

The Weatherby cartridges were all designed for long range hunting, all of them are good for that.

Their new 6.5/300 WM launches a 130gr bullet at 3476 fps. With a 300 yard zero (possible because of high velocity) it 1887 ft/lbs of energy and only 19 inches of drop.

This would be the epitome of a good long range hunting round, albeit, again with significant recoil. (The case is almost as big as the .338 Lapua's)

[FreedomPoster]

Nice exposition, good info. But in the context, I was throwing out stuff in military usage, which most of what you’re talking about there isn’t.

Bringing up .300 Win Mag always reminds me of a story from a dozen years ago or so. I was at the range plinking with EBRs right before deer season. Guy shows up at the next station. Big brawny country boy, wearing his hunting camo jump suit, with a really nice scoped new .300 Win Mag to sight in / check zero. Which is generally serious overkill here in GA for whitetail, but whatever.

Unpacks, sets up, puts a target out. Takes one shot, and opens up his eyebrow over about a 120 degree arc.

Hmmm, you’re a little short on eye relief with that scope setup, buddy, I’m thinking.

Help him get squared away (I generally carry a med kit to the range). He packs up and leaves.

Poor guy, but it was kind of funny, in a there-but-for-the-grace-of-God-go-I way. Well, that and some sense.

[B4Ranch]

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[JD_UTDallas]

50 BMG accept no substitutes, positively lethal to 1600m it is directly based off the 30-06 case scaled up to .50 the 30 being one of the most efficient cartridges even to this day. spend the 1800 bucks and get a 30 inch bolt action 50BMG upper for an AR platform mine is on an DPMS AR10 it is sweeeeetttt.

[MileHi]

Fond of my Swedish 6.55x55s ........

Yesssss...

[CommerceComet]

The .300 Win Mag can use all the same bullets as the .308, but pushes them quite a bit faster. That's going to mean they shoot flatter, are less effected by wind, and will overall make target acquisition easier.

I know that it is a pretty rare round but how would a .308 Norma magnum compare to the .300 Winchester magnum?

[MileHi]

...by necking down the .30-06.

Shortening. They both seat the same 7.62 (.30) bullets.