Posted on 03/11/2022 7:18:01 AM PST by PittsburghAfterDark
This is something I have been perplexed about or at least had questions about.
I understand Poland has offered the Ukraine their MiG-29's hoping to replace them with American F-16's. I understand that the Biden administration put a stop for that. 43 Republican Senators want to push the deal, which won't happen.
However my question is this; of what use would aircraft do in this particular situation without AWACS or airborne command and control? Most air to air combat seems to be over the horizon as opposed to dogfighting.
Would they not have to turn on their radars to look for airborne targets and become proverbial come kill me signs under this scenario?
Obviously there are going to be a ton of AA assets on the ground for the Russians. I'm going to assume that the Ukrainians don't have HARM missiles, a Wild Weasel type function in their air force or a way to mitigate AA units besides flares.
So my basic question is this; what would the true military value be if they are fighting without AWACS command and control and significant anti-AA abilities?
Ever see “The Wizard of Oz?” That’s Washington DC - everything is PR and spin from the man behind the curtain. I doubt anyone even got close to asking the serious questions you are asking.
Suicide strike missions?
It is a multi-role fighter that has substantial air-to-ground capabilities.
Moot point. The larger question is why this matter appears to be now obscured by smokescreen (or a smokescreen itself).
It makes little sense that the Poles would directly provoke Putin and the public diplomatic gymnastics in the wake of the supposed ‘offer’ - coupled with the curious drive by Republicans to push for almost direct intervention - frames either incompetence, neocon interference or propaganda.
AEWC systems are really meant to warn allied forces of incoming threats and to track their movements for interception. Ukraine needs tactical fighters to deliver bombs to ground targets primarily (like hitting that miles long convoy) and to deter air threats secondarily. I am sure Ukraine has all kind of ground based AEWC systems, however it’s likely Russia has already neutralized those for the most part so some AWACS would be helpful, however they contain top secret technology that we would rather not let into Russia’s hands, so giving those to Ukraine ain’t happening.
Not really, I am thing of it as a Strike Eagle or F/A-18.
However that brings up another point; no J-Stars equivalent either.
I'm neither military or former military, but more aircraft for the Ukrainians would allow more potential aircraft strikes on Russian ground targets - there seems to plenty of ground targets on Ukrainian soil. No need to go into heavily defended Russia.
Of course, attacking ground targets anywhere is risky business, especially since the Ukrainians do not have air superiority. But this may be the risks Ukrainians pilots are willing to take since their backs are against the wall.
Ground attack rarely needs AWACS.
And the USAF is retiring their JSTARS.
Putin promised Biden 15% to kill it
Ukranians are probably trained to fly the MIGs. Not so much F16s. But I bet that an F16 is a better fighter than a MIG so it is an upgrade.
Will the MIGs get all of the weaponry and maintenance equipment?
These aircraft would be shot down if they got close to the Belarus or Russian borders. The Russian SAMs would tear them apart.
Both sides have some types of AA systems leaving both sides vulnerable to AA fire, which is one reason why both sides seem to fly low. The MiG 29s would probably used against low-flying Russian aircraft, especially Su25 ground attack planes, and helicopters.
Since no one wants WWIII and the Polish MIG-29’s represent an escalation and intervention by a NATO member country, why don’t we do what the Turks (also NATO) already did? Send them drones operated from far Western Ukraine in air-to-ground roles. Drones won’t be shoot down Russian MIGs, but they can raise holy hell on columns of armor.
Just my 2 cents...
AWACs flying in eastern Poland can see just about over Kiev.
A larger concern I would have if Mig-29s were put into service by Ukraine...
They seem to be passing out stingers and shoulder fired anti-aircraft like candy. I would be concerned with friendly fire incidents. The citizen soldiers firing on “friendly” air power that is pretty similar to what the enemy is flying.
What you do when you've had/done everything money can buy?
What you do when you've had/done every kind of perverted?
...and now need something else to keep life interesting?
...play G_d.
Supposedly, Ukraine has a degraded but still functioning air force and air defense system that can take in and make use of additional aircraft. It is unclear whether Ukraine has AWACS or is limited to ground control. Apparently, the intended missions for the Migs and Sukhois are ground attack against Russian forces in Ukraine and air defense missions in the air space above, the sort of missions that the remaining Ukrainian Air Force is still capable of.
Think “flying artillery”. The Israeli AF in 1948 were flying aircraft in from Europe during their first war Czech S199 (an altered Me-109G) and later on Spitfires. They used ‘volunteer’ ferry pilots. I knew a businessman down in Philadelphia, Phil Marmestein, who was a ferry pilot after getting done flying dive bombers for the USN.
https://www.101squadron.com/101/101.html
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