Are you aware of the procedure illustrated above?
Posted on 08/13/2004 9:36:00 AM PDT by IdaBriggs
So, abortion to you is the same as a pregnant woman losing her baby because of a drunk driver hitting her in a head on collision? You don't see how one is truly random and the other was deliberate?
"By logic that views abortion as murder, that makes my miscarriages (which were acts of God) a crime by Him, and I * WILL NOT * believe that."
Your logic is flawed. People who die of natural causes were not murdered by God, whether they are 90 years or 90 minutes old. God's decision to end life is part of his plan. A person's decision to end life is part of that person's plan. Not God's. God allows us to choose. That doesn't mean he always approves of our choices.
An interesting theory. Let me ask you to be specific here, Ida: exactly how, and in what way, has any Republican tried to impose their religion on you in a legal way?
As for the "way of life" we try to impose: explain what you mean. My "way of life" centers around my fiance, family, friends, work, and keeping my nose out of other people's business. It's a very common conservative modus operandi. I put it to you that it's the democrats with their constant meddling in people's affairs (such as gun bans, affirmative action, etc., etc.), that are trying to enforce their way of life on others - FAR MORE SO than Republicans do. You see, liberals think most people are stupid and the government should run things - thus all their laughable "socially conscious" laws. It's so tragic. Conservatives happen to think that the government is inherently inefficient, and should remain as little as possible.
Dear Ida:
"No one would ever force you to have an Abortion or indulge in Gay Sex in America EVER,"
Nobody would ever force me to own a slave either, but that doesn't make slaveowning in America any less tolerable.
The fact is, you have a lot of very nice and loving friends who, in tolerating the mass murder of children, are allowing the equivalent of slavery on your main streets.
We may frighten you, but the reason why we frighten you is (a) you at some fundamental level know that we are right and (b) are afraid at what you would have to live with and do in order to change.
As for gay sex, I don't care what they do to each other, but I DO care what they do to my children, either actively or through indoctrination. Sex is a hobby, but homosexual militanism is a political movement and we oppose it because we don't want our children--or YOURS--sodomized, either literally or psychologically.
Are you aware of the procedure illustrated above?
Can you stand before your Creator and justify voting for a man who supports partial birth abortion? Especially when a C-section would save BOTH lives??????? GOD says life begins at conception. He knows us before we were fully formed in our mothers womb. No one is suggesting overturning roe v wade, they just want it to be used rarely in the case or rape or incest or life of the mother (but we don't consider it the life of the mother if she just doesn't want her figure ruined). We believe that partial birth abortion is simply MURDER.
What two consenting people over 18 do in their bedroom is no ones business. But when those people want to have sex with those under 18 that is EVERYONES business. This is part of a portion of the homosexual community's agenda. Look up NAMBLA and educate yourself on it.
We conservatives don't want to poison the air or water after all we drink and breathe it too. When we camp we make sure our camp fires are put out, we pick up our trash. We recycle when possible.
We don't want to kick old people off social security after all we have elderly parents too. Both are democrat myth.
We don't use our guns to kill others unless we are forced to in self defense, we are responsible with them and keep them out of the reach of children. We believe criminals should be locked up for full sentences and that the sentence should fit the crime. Some of us support the death penalty for killers, others don't.
We believe that we shouldn't be taxed at 50% of our incomes..It seems to me we fought a revolution over a few pennies in taxation. We think/feel we can better decide to donate our money to charities who provide services to the poor and down trodden better than the government can. After all only about 24 cents on the dollar of government money gets to the needy person. While faith based agency's have a better record.
We want good schools and teachers for our children. We believe bad teachers should be fired. That the 3 R's should be taught instead of agendas of enviro whacko stuff or sex agendas.
We don't want to shove our Christianity down any one's throat, but neither do we want their lack of religion or religion shoved down ours. We honor our country and our Military as a shinning beacon of freedom and defenders of those freedoms. America is simply the GREATEST country on the face of the earth.
I hope this explains a little of what we conservatives think. May our Lord bless you for trying to open your mind.
We think the same of you.
You claim that you want everyone to live according to his/her own conscience. But you don't really. You only believe those who fit within your definition of the world should be allowed to live according to their conscience.
Your examples:
Abortion: The child does not even get to live. Your side always wants me to fund abortion in one way or another -- violating my conscience. Your side wants health workers to be FORCED to participate in abortions or lose their jobs (see NY in particular).
Gay sex: You sell the idea what it is just about what people do privately in their own bedrooms. But is it? Ever since the Supreme Court made sodomy a constitutional right, the push has been to force public approval of these private relationships and to make taxpayers reward them. Your side doesn't think the Boy Scouts should get to choose who they do and do not want as scout leaders based on their own ideas of morality. Heck, you guys BOOED the Boy Scouts at your 2000 convention. You have had them in court non-stop, and you've pushed them out of public facilities. You have forced Big Brothers and Big Sisters to have gay mentors, which usually means all the state sponsored homeless kids get gay mentors. You want the kids that we collectively supervise via the gov't to live in homes with situations I would define as child abuse. You want our children to be taught in gov't schools that being gay is exactly the same as being straight. Etc., etc., etc.
Church State: You say you want these two institutions separate yet you back all sorts of laws and court decisions that serve as laws restricting the free expression of religion. No one wants the law to mandate religious convictions. The law addresses behavior only. But your idea of law seems to be complete licentiousness on social issues and total socialism on fiscal issues. You want the individual -- as long as he fits into your mold -- to be free to do anything at all. Morality is a meaningless term to you. Yet, when the inevitable consequences of those actions come, you want the government to force the rest of us to pay for it OR GO TO JAIL.
For example, you say what two people do in the privacy of their own bedroom is none of my business. But if they emerge from that bedroom with the AIDS virus then all of a sudden you think it is my busness.
I just think you are fooling yourself about your own motives. Societies function with shared norms and values. Some are mutually exclusive. Your side just wants to replace the long held values that we in western civilization have inherited from our ancestors, with your own "progressive values." But it is no more all inclusive than any social structure.
You sound like a plant for Lanny Davis and his boy buddies who monitor Free Republic to collect what is posted to slam the Swift Boat Vets.
Not a troll, I just saw his/her post on DUhhh and it's authentic.
Now as for you, IdaBriggs, I'm not interested in the questions in your post. Abortion is never going to be made illegal, and is an innane issue, and I couldn't care less about homosexuals.
Here is my question to you...
How can a post like this...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2197290
...get so many replies, with so few dissenting opinions?? (The post asks: "What's wrong with Cuba?")
You might have feared coming here, but my only fear is that America Hating, Freedom and Liberty Hating, Communists like you and your little friends ever get any real power.
You seem cool, but damn...Most of those freaks over there need to be put to sleep, or at least nurtured so they don't reproduce!! (Well...I guess I would settle for sending them to their beloved Cuba).
Ps....How many DUhhhers do you think will commit suicide on election night? I'm guessing at least 2. (And I'm serious here...That might be gruesome, but I do believe it will happen).
"By logic that views abortion as murder, that makes my miscarriages (which were acts of God) a crime by Him, and I * WILL NOT * believe that.">>>
God cannot murder--murder is the taking of God's role into man's hands.
I too have a dead child through miscarriage. That was God's call, not man's, and certainly not mine.
But that's His provenance. God can kill because God made life, and ultimately, all of us have to die to get to know Him. But murder? He cannot murder. Abortionists, however, can, and do.
1) Is God gay?
2) Do you think God loves Hitler? Or doctors that kill babies in the womb?
3) I have some friends who's young child was abducted and butchered by someone. Murdered. Shreeded. Does God love that person? 4) Does God love Satan?
5) What is the meaning of life.
6) Who or what made God?
Clear that all up for me ASAP please.
China, Ida, China. Careful with your predictions.
Yeah. That's something that if you've been through it no explanation is necessary, and if you haven't no explanation is possible.
In answer to your question, my personal belief is that God is in charge of who gets born, and who doesn't. That means to me that any child who is supposed to be here -- regardless of contraception or not -- will be born. With respect to Free Will, all things work to God's greater glory, even when we don't understand them."
That's demented Islamofascist logic. That's the same logic those scumbags use when they smash planes into buildings.
Well, I think you'd find broad agreement her on that-- except maybe with Catholics, I'm not sure, frankly how they view it.
By logic that views abortion as murder, that makes my miscarriages (which were acts of God) a crime by Him, and I * WILL NOT * believe that.
I see where you're confused. When you kill someone who is trying to stab you in the throat, that's not murder. When you kill someone who is merely reading a book on a park bench, that's murder. When a pre-born life is taken accidentally (when God takes it), that's not murder. When a woman deliberately has a doctor burn the flesh with saline solution or chop the body up and stab needles and hoses inside it to take the pre-born life, it's murder. Does that clear things up?
No you don't -- not if you are here representing the Left. You feel that you can shove your beliefs down the throat of everyone. Look at new attempts to have clergy who speak out against Homosexuality as immoral -- as the Bible says -- shut down or guilty of "hate speech."
You are also asking ME to subsidize the killing of chilren -- so this is not a question of passive "live and let live."
I almost posted a juicy quote.
Do you fear that we might change your mind on an issue or two?
Do you fear that we might challenge aa deeply-held belief that you have?
Do you perhaps fear that you will see things differently after coming to engage us in conversation?
If you want honest discussion of serious issues, you'll find it here. If you want agreeement with the positions you hold or the assumptions you make, then I'm afraid you will not find it here.
Even so, you are, as far as I know, welcome to stay and to continue to engage us in discussions over issues -- even though you may post positions and statements that most of us strongly disagree with.
As long as you are civil and polite, you will not, I think, be banned from FreeRepublic.
The same, of course, is NOT true over at DU, where you have posted something earlier this afternoon.
Over there, it is not enough to be civil.
Over there, one must toe the party line -- or be banned.
I know. It happened to me.
Oh, and we'd have a lot more respect for you if you were pro-abortion for cold, utilitarian reasons-- like Swift's Modest Proposal.
If you still want to be pro-abort, you should say that's why you are. Acknowledge it's a life and that it's murder, but say, so what? The greater good is more important. You can't really argue with someone like that.
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