Thomas Jefferson

[Sam Gamgee]

Biography Channel had an hour on Jefferson. Being Canadian I never learned anything about this great man. Some one on this site lamented that they would never want to listen to a thing he said because he was a slave owner. Yet Jefferson tried in the state legislature and the colonial legislature to end slavery. It didn't happen in his time. And no, he only freed those slaves that he felt had the skills to survive. But maybe he worried that they would be marginalized in the white man's world and end up in shanty towns?

What really impressed me is that he and Washington gave themselves self-imposed term limits. These men saw political power as so distasteful they actually refused to keep power longer than what they saw as prudent.

Not many men today are in this class.

[pissant]

Jefferson was absolutely brilliant. 2nd only to Benjamin Franklin in the genius department. A great man, a good president, and a patriot.

Fortunately he reconciled with his long time rival John Adams late in life, making for one of the greatest human interest stories ever recorded!

[Firefigher NC]

Thomas Jefferson kicked ass.

[jla]

He was very intelligent yet also human, thus made mistakes.
His cuts in military strength and expenditures, especially in our Navy, put him on precarious ground when the British set up their blockade of American commercial ships en route to France. (The prelude and cause, which eventually culminated in, the War of 1812)
The sailors on the captured Amercian commercial vessels were literally kidnapped by the British and made to serve on their ships. The U.S. couldn't retaliate because TJ all but ignored our defense needs, again, especially our Navy.

Thomas Jefferson, in my opinion, was more of a great thinker, than he was a great doer. If one really gets into learning about our Founding Fathers they would find that all of them had warts just as any other human did. No doubt they were intelligent men, but be careful throwing words like "genius" around.
Patrick Henry , (my personal favorite of the 'Founders'), refused to attend the Constitutional Convention.
I personally think that in terms of vision, leadership and spirit, not a single one of our Founders matched Ronald Wilson Reagan...save Patrick Henry.

[Mr. Blonde]

When you think about the fact that we are still on James Madison's basic plan for our government I think genius might fit for him.

[jla]

Mr. Madison would be appalled at how we've progressed.

[jla]

Describe what Madison's basic plan was.
I ask because we can then juxtapose it with how things are today.

[pissant]

I would say Franklin, having read three biograhies as well as his autobiography was no only a genius, but a practical man. That is the rarest of all birds.

Jefferson was brilliant, but not the wisest politician. Madison was brilliant. Hamilton is near the top of my list as well. George Washington was perhaps the wisest.

I agree Reagan was an absolute gem in our history. But I assure you, he revered the founders even more than you or I.

Cheers!

[Mr. Blonde]

Ummm, The Constitution? Granted most on here wouldn't say college is the place to find truth in our history, but in a class I took on the Constitution, the professor made it very clear that Madison was running the show. He came in prepared to scrap the confederation, and had been studying every book he could get his hands on to do so. The original plan (Virginia?) was his although it was introduced by someone else, and he directed most of the discussion at the convention.

[jla]

So are you telling me that you believe we today are, more or less, living according to the Constitution as envisioned by Madison?

[gubamyster]

He owned slaves.
End of Story.
Turn off your TV.

[whershey]

If you want to understand Jefferson and Adams get a copy of their letters to each other.

[whershey]

Not totally but he held it all together.

[Mr. Blonde]

We are more or less following it in that we haven't abandoned it. Has each branch over reached their powers yes, but have they done so to the point where I would say we aren't still under the Constitution? No. But to think that we have even made it this long using a document that is 4000 odd words long is flat out amazing to me.

[jla]

I was afraid I would come off as sounding like I didn't "revere" our Founders, and it looks like I might have succeeded. And to be honest, as I was typing my prev. post I did originally call Ben F. a genius but deleted that remark .
I didn't set out to be provocative, I just wanted to relate some truths. And I appreciate your comments, Pissant. Your opinion of our Founders is noted, as well as admirable.

[x]

Thomas Jefferson, in my opinion, was more of a great thinker, than he was a great doer.

Well said.

I personally think that in terms of vision, leadership and spirit, not a single one of our Founders matched Ronald Wilson Reagan...save Patrick Henry.

That's probably going too far. George Washington was clearly a noble, public-spirited and far-sighted political leader. The others, including Henry so far as I can tell, became partisan or factional leaders, while Washington tried to stand above parties and politics. A party or factional leader can be great, but so much of his energy goes into supporting one side against the other, while Washington was there for the whole country.

[jla]

What do you suppose J. Madison's thoughts would be on the matter of Judge Roy Moore and the Ten Commandments monument?
Or the establishment of the Depts of Ed., Energy, Etc.?
Or of Roe v. Wade? Homosexual marriage? Kelo v. New London? etc. etc. etc.

[jla]

That's probably going too far

How so? I'm always left scratching my head as to why folks don't think a contemporary figure could possibly outshine Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, et al

[AntiBurr]

I believe that Madison patterned his proposals on a proposed constitution for Virginia (not adopted) written by Jefferson. They were close, personally and politically for many years. There is no reason to doubt that Madison was familiar with Jefferson's work.
The reason Jefferson was not involved in the Constitutional Convention was that he was ambassador to France at the time.