[onja]

Just wanted to say something in defense of Carthage. Many (not sure of freepers) seem to dislike Carthage. Rome started every war. Rome did the massacres. Rome was the one who lied and cheated.

P.S. - I watched a good Reagan documentary recently but they started the movie by comparing U.S. vs. Russia as Rome vs. Carthage. They said the Romans were the good, civil, democratic people while the Carthaginians were evil tyrants. Like the Romans were any better. Blast Cato (ended every speech saying Carthage should be destroyed).

[Question Liberal Authority]

Rome started every war. Rome did the massacres. Rome was the one who lied and cheated.

And yet, Rome endured and Carthage bit the dust. There's a lesson in there somewhere.

Look. You might not like the outcome of the Third Punic War, but it was the THIRD Punic War. You'd be sick of anyone after the third war. Talk about your quagmires.

Personally, I remember Carthage every time I hear a song by Dido.

[PzLdr]

After the FIRST Punic War, which Rome won by building its first Navy from scratch, and then defeating the premiere naval power in the Med., Carthage faced a rebellion by its hired troops {Most Carthaginians, except officers, didn't wage their own wars] because Carthage refused to pay them. the revolt was so serious, Rome offered aid.

In the second Punic War, Hannibal Barca provoked Rome into war in Spain, which was what he wanted. Almost the entire war was fought in Italy - for eighteen years.Needless to say, the Romans were never going to leave Carthage to become a threat again.

And bear in mind, there were crucial cultural differences that impacted the views Carthage and Rome had of each other. Say what you will about Rome, but the Romans didn't offer child sacrifices to their Gods.And the Romans incorporated conquered peoples in their Empire, offering citizenship down the road. Carthage either enslaved people, or allied/and /or hired them. In the long run, they never had a chance.And as a result, you have a legal system, a language, and a culture derived, in significant part, from Rome.

[Christopher Lincoln]

There is a sequel to the story. Carthage was rebuilt by order of Julius Caesar, and soon became again a great city. After the Muslim conquest of North Africa, it was destroyed again in A.D. 698, and has not been rebuilt.

[bigsigh]

Read Livy (Penguin Books) Roman historian, covers the Punic Wars.

[ken21]

i don't have a negative opinion about carthage.

you have to admit that after hannibal slipped around the mediterranean, through the alps, and down into the peninsula of what is now italy, that romans couldn't ignore him. he was there for some 14 years or so!

rome filled a vacuum of power, provided relief to many individual cities and states, and became an empire in the process.

[SunkenCiv]

Hitch your wagon to a star...

Carthage was the aggressor, Carthage invaded Italy (you have heard of Hannibal?), Carthage lied and cheated, Carthage re-armed and Rome viewed that as a threat and responded by defeating its armies and sacking the city. Cato had it right.

A Carthaginian work on farming was retained by the Romans as a valued and standard text (alas, it hasn't survived), and having to defend itself against Hannibal and against the Carthaginian navy made Rome improve militarily.

[RightWhale]

Leading up to the Revolutionary War some said "Canada delenda est".

[SunkenCiv]

Please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest -- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[caver]

Fascinating era of history!

[chesley]

Like the Islamofascists, Cathaginians were very fond of sacrificing their children to their god.

[Vicomte13]

Lost in this nice little piece about Spain is the fact that the people of Spain were neither Carthaginian nor Latin.
It is all very well for the Romans and Carthaginians to come in, declare some sort of river the boundary, and then cheat on treaties. But the tribes of Spain had a different idea as to whose land it was, and who belonged there.

So, when Spaniards revolted and then relied on one or the other to get help in turning the other out, it hardly seems that the Carthaginian or the Roman side was really in "the right", at least not if we're going to try to give the Carthaginians the "moral high ground" because the Romans aided a Spanish revolt.
If one's going to play the game of "rights", then the Spaniards had the right to kill Romans AND Carthaginians, and they both were bad invaders, and if the Romans sided with revolting Spaniards against Carthaginians, well, that's a bit like, say, the French siding with revolting Indians against English colonists back in the day.

It should be noted that the Carthaginians were pretty brutal, as all ancient peoples (and most moderns are, when push comes to shove) were.

[SunkenCiv]

General Patton - "Through a Glass, Darkly"
The Patton Society | General George S. Patton, Jr.
Posted on 10/09/2001 12:22:10 AM PDT by StoneColdGOP
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/543355/posts

[txhurl]

bookMARK. Thank you.

[SunkenCiv]

Carthage Tries To Live Down Image As Site Of Infanticide
Post-Gazette/Wall Street Journal | 5-26-2004 | Andrew Higgins
Posted on 05/27/2005 12:20:44 PM PDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1411857/posts

Prehistoric Archaeology of the Aegean, Human Sacrifice
Dartmouth University | 1995 | Various
Posted on 07/26/2005 1:07:44 PM PDT by Little Bill
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1451005/posts