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To: PzLdr

Carthage didn't pay it mercenaries because it coudn't. It was momentarily poor. The Romans broke the treaty first by allying with Sarguntum. Also he couldn't stand by and watch Sarguntum kill his allies.

Yeah. They did had the problem of religion which is the only problem I have with it. Sad that perfect CArthage has that big flaw. But the Romans had the Collosium. In which many many thousands died for entertainment and execution. It was a different time. But also the Carthaginians were not so arrogant and were easily allyable with barbarians. The Romans were the mortal enemies of them which caused (eventually) their downfall.

And, in case you need to know, I am biased towards Carthage big time. But of course the majority of people are biased towards Rome.


9 posted on 07/26/2005 7:01:14 AM PDT by onja ("The government of England is a limited mockery." (France is a complete mockery.))
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To: onja

"the Carthaginians were not so arrogant and were easily allyable with barbarians. The Romans were the mortal enemies of them which caused (eventually) their downfall."

The Carthaginians were barbarians in Roman eyes, but to say the Carthaginians weren't arrogant while the Romans were isn't discussion.

Also, the Romans had fully half their army made up of auxiliary units which were non-Roman, and after Rome got to be a big deal (and the Senatorial corruption undermined incentives for citizens to serve in the Roman army) even the regular legions were not all that Roman. The Roman empire was a "barbarian" empire.

Sounds like your big time bias toward Carthage is moving off toward disorder. Ancient people were just people, no matter who they were, and shouldn't be idealized.

The Carthaginians/Phoenicians were renowned as sailors and merchants. The Periplus of Hanno (used to be a thread about that on FR) describes a Carthaginian expedition along the Atlantic coast of Africa as far south (at least) as Mount Cameroun. Herodotus (a Greek writer, who was born in a Carian town) records the story of an Egyptian pharaoh who hired Phoenicians to depart the Red Sea and circumnavigate Africa.

On a more poetic note -- in an old (1974 I think) issue of National Geographic, the cover story is "The Phoenicians". The article begins near ancient Tyre in Lebanon, where the fishermen are hauling back their nets, chanting "el-leee-sah". One of the sources interviewed by the author of that story is quoted as saying, "If you ask them why they do it, they can't tell you. They don't know... Elissa, Princess of Tyre..."


14 posted on 07/26/2005 7:17:52 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: onja

That's me! CARTAGO DELENDA EST! [And it was]


35 posted on 07/26/2005 9:07:39 AM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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