Libertarians are Liberals

http://www.moral-politics.com ^ | Moral-Politics.com

[ghostmonkey]

Often I see Libertarians refer to themselves as "Conservatives" or "Right". Yet, many times, on many web-boards, I see the libertarians taking the same positions as Demonrats, and they seem to support Demonrats over Republicans.

I did a bit of research, and I found why this might be the case. Libertarianism is actually in the same political system as Liberalism.

http://www.moral-politics.com/xPolitics.aspx?menu=Political_Ideologies&action=Draw&choice=PoliticalIdeologies.All

[ghostmonkey]

Comments?

[Dinsdale]

Puritans are'nt conservatives.

They love big government and all FDRs works.

[ghostmonkey]

Here is a bigger view of the Political System's Box:

http://www.moral-politics.com/xPolitics.aspx?menu=Political_Ideologies&action=Draw&choice=PoliticalIdeologies.All&fullsize=y

(According to the test at the same site, I fall into the Fundamentalist Category, so you all know where I am coming from.)

[A CA Guy]

Small government to the point of anarchy and a liberal social embrace of vice, especially their precious drugs.

[Dead Corpse]

Libertarians are "classical" liberals. Maximized freedom, or liberty if you prefer. There is almost nothing in common with todays "political" liberals who are more accurately socialists.

Does that help?

[oblomov]

Why should you take the socialist George Lakoff's word for it?

I am a libertarian who believes, like Frank Chodorov and Albert Jay Nock, that moral rectitude is necessary for people to be free.

[JCEccles]

THe ACLU is a thoroughly libertarian outfit. The ACLU routinely stifles free speech in its attempts to force everyone to drink libertarian koolaid.

[ghostmonkey]

Directly from the site:


There are four major political systems:

1. Socialism blends NonConformance with Interdependence.
2. Authoritarianism blends Conformance with Interdependence.
3. Conservatism blends Conformance with Independence.
4. Liberalism blends NonConformance with Independence.

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Conservatism is a political system that blends Conformance and Independence.

Conservatism is a tendency to resist rapid change and to support traditional norms, where "traditional norms" is meant to be the type of moral order and rules that existed in previous times (e.g. Europe and North America prior to the 1950's, stricter religious periods...).

In a conservative state, citizens are subject to state authority primarily in the area of social behavior aspects of their lives.

Conservatism includes these variations:

1. Economic Conservatism
2. Moral Conservatism
3. Moderate Conservatism
4. Extreme Conservatism

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Liberalism is a political system that blends NonConformance and Independence.

Liberalism sees individual liberty as the highest values in social and economical life. It favors the right to dissent from orthodox tenets or established authorities in social or economical matters.

This definition of Liberalism (there are many) blends the social aspects of U.S. Liberalism [NonConformance] with the economic aspects of European Liberalism [Independence].

Liberalism includes these variations:

1. Economic Liberalism
2. Moral Liberalism
3. Moderate Liberalism
4. Extreme Liberalism

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Libertarian Capitalism is an extreme form of Moral Liberalism.

It is a political philosophy which advocates individual rights and a limited government.

Libertarian Capitalists believe individuals should be free to do anything they want, so long as they do not infringe upon the equal rights of others.

They further believe that the only legitimate use of force, whether public or private, is to protect those rights.

For libertarians, there are no positive rights (such as to food or shelter or health care), only negative rights (such as to not be assaulted, abused, robbed or censored).

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It's right there, plain as can be. Libertarians are Liberals. Puritans (Fundamentalists) would be in the Conservative System.

[Dead Corpse]

I've always been more concerned with property Rights and Second Amendment Rights. It is no business of mine what you destroy your life with.

[M203M4]

From your link (Libertarian Capitalists)

It is a political philosophy which advocates individual rights and a limited government.

Libertarian Capitalists believe individuals should be free to do anything they want, so long as they do not infringe upon the equal rights of others.

They further believe that the only legitimate use of force, whether public or private, is to protect those rights.

For libertarians, there are no positive rights (such as to food or shelter or health care), only negative rights (such as to not be assaulted, abused, robbed or censored).

What is wrong with this, and how is it "Liberalism"? Someone seems to confuse legality with morality.

[spunkets]

"Libertarianism is actually in the same political system as Liberalism."

You are flat out wrong. You also don't have a clue what libertarianism is.

[TBP]

Libertarians aren't conservatives, except on economic issues, but because of economic issues they aren't liberals either.

Bad as their views are, I'd rather live in a Libertarian-run country than one run by either of the major parties at this point.

[Dead Corpse]

Your statement contradicts itself. The All Commies and Lawyers Union is in no measure a "libertarian" anything.

[Wormwood]

Bad as their views are, I'd rather live in a Libertarian-run country than one run by either of the major parties at this point.

Wisdom.

[Michael Goldsberry]

Libertarians are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

They most certainly are not Liberals.

[Dead Corpse]

Using those definitions, I am definately a Libertarian Capitalist.

[M203M4]

Yup. The ACLU advocates restricting the rights of others, confusing negative with positive rights. They are a socialist outfit.

[ghostmonkey]

Libertarians are "classical" liberals. Maximized freedom, or liberty if you prefer. There is almost nothing in common with todays "political" liberals who are more accurately socialists. If Democrats are in the Upper Left Box (Socialism), and Republicans are in the Lower Right Box (Conservativism), Where do Libertarians throw their support, if they have choose between the two?

[JCEccles]

That's only because you've never lived in a libertarian country.

No one has. Libertarianism has such a stifling and impracticable view of even limited government that it is only possible in theory--or in very small, special cases.

[stylecouncilor]

Here's what Ayn Rand said about Libertarians:
"All kinds of people today call themselves 'libertarians', especially something calling itself the New Right, which consists of hippies, except that they’re anarchists instead of collectivists. But of course, anarchists are collectivists. Capitalism is the one system that requires absolute objective law, yet they want to combine capitalism and anarchism. That is worse than anything the New Left has proposed. It’s a mockery of philosophy and ideology. They sling slogans and try to ride on two bandwagons. They want to be hippies, but don’t want to preach collectivism, because those jobs are already taken. But anarchism is a logical outgrowth of the anti-intellectual side of collectivism. I could deal with a Marxist with a greater chance of reaching some kind of understanding, and with much greater respect. The anarchist is the scum of the intellectual world of the left, which has given them up. So the right picks up another leftist discard. That’s the Libertarian movement."