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North American Union Is No Conspiracy
Human Events Online ^ | Jul 21, 2006 | Jerome R. Corsi

Posted on 07/21/2006 2:39:27 AM PDT by Trupolitik

John Hawkins apparently has taken on a mission to prove that the Bush Administration is not creating a North American Union to replace the United States, or a new currency -- the Amero -- to replace the U.S. dollar.

Recently, in a blog debate on this website, I exchanged views with Mr. Hawkins. When Mr. Hawkins declined to respond in what the editors termed “Round 4” of that debate, I concluded Mr. Hawkins allowed me to have the final word because he lacked a convincing rejoinder. Now, we see Mr. Hawkins wants to carry on the debate but this time against a vaguely defined “conspiracy theory” whose proponents Mr. Hawkins neglects to identify except to point fingers at Lou Dobbs, Diane Alden, and me.

Hawkins begins by characterizing the argument that the NAU is being created as a “conspiracy theory.” As I argued in the debate on the blog, this technique is an attempt to discredit the argument by ridicule. What Mr. Hawkins wants readers to assume is that any writer arguing the NAU proposition has to believe by definition that behind the NAU movement are the illuminati, or that Bigfoot is the “brains behind the NAU.”

The tactic was well described by radical socialist Saul D. Alinsky whose 1971 book “Rules for Radicals” asserted that: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule.” Mr. Alinsky was wrong on this, as he was on many political arguments. Ridicule can be countered by pointing out that ad hominem articles are usually all that is left for those who cannot muster the arguments to defeat a debate opponent on point.

Mr. Hawkins, you do not have to characterize statements by those of us who advance the NAU argument as “hysterical quotes” or arguments that are “not true at all” in order to position yourself to make the arguments you want to make.

To set the record straight, I believe there is no convincing evidence that a second assassin positioned behind the grassy knoll killed JFK, nor do I see definitive scientific evidence that the Loch Ness monster exists. I do find credible evidence, however, to advance the argument that the Bush administration is quietly creating the trilateral structure in administrative law of the NAU. The key action is going on within the executive branch in SPP.gov working groups. The goal seems to be to make the NAU a fait accompli without having to present the proposition first to the American public or the U.S. Congress for debate and approval. Far from being a conspiracy, the evidence for these contentions is “hidden” in the open, much of it published on government websites.

Mr Hawkins advances five “claims” which we will examine here in the order in which his article presents them. I will state the claims as Mr. Hawkins phrased them.

Claim #1: There is a Council of Foreign Relations report called, “Building a North American Community,” that’s being used as a “blueprint” for a merger of the U.S., Mexico, and Canada.

First, there is a CFR task force report under that title that was issued in May 2005. Moreover, there was a relatively neglected “Chairman’s Statement” under the title “Creating a North American Community” that was issued earlier, in March 2005.

Mr. Hawkins states that he telephoned Lee Feinstein, who is the executive director of the CFR task force program. Mr. Feinstein denied that the CFR reports in question called for the creation of a “superstate.” Moreover, Mr. Feinstein expressed uncertainty that anyone in the Bush administration was reading the report, paying any attention to it, or using it as a “blueprint.”

While Mr. Feinstein may head the CFR program, we find no mention that Mr. Feinstein participated on the task force of either of the CFR reports documented above. Nor do we find any evidence that task forces organized under Mr. Feinstein's office have a requirement to consult him or seek his views, advice or approval before issuing their reports.

Mr. Hawkins is non-responsive to the argument I advanced in the blog debate that a scientifically conducted content analysis would most likely show correspondence between the CFR reports in question, the activity documented by the Department of Commerce website (SPP.gov), and the writings of a person who was task force vice chair for the reports in question, Dr. Robert A. Pastor of American University. Regardless of denials expressed by any CFR executive or even a task force member, the documents in question should speak for themselves.

There are too many correlations among these evidentiary sources to document them fully here. To cite one correspondence as an example, we note that the CFR May 2005 report called for the immediate creation of a “North American Advisory Council,” described on page 31 as an “independent body of advisers,” composed of “eminent persons from outside government, appointed to staggered multiyear terms to ensure their independence.” In the May 27, 2005 press conference announcing the release of the May 2005 CFR task force report, Robert Pastor argued for the creation of some “lean institutions,” one of which was described as a “North American advisory council made up of eminent individuals from all three countries, appointed for terms that are longer than those of the governments, and staggered over time.”

The idea for a “North American Commission” surfaced in Dr. Pastor’s 2001 book titled "Toward a North American Commission," where on page 187 he recommended that the advisory group be “composed of distinguished individuals who are appointed by the three governments but are not in any of the governments.” The homepage at SPP.gov concludes by noting that President Bush, President Fox, and then-Prime Minister Martin of Canada announced at their March 2005 summit at Waco, Texas, “the creation of a North American Competitiveness Council to fully incorporate the private sector into the SPP process.” Then, on June 15, 2006, the NACC was created. Commerce Secretary Carlos M. Gutierrez convened the first meeting of the North American Competitiveness Council, organized exactly as Dr. Pastor and the May 2005 CFR task force report had recommended.

Another correspondence that a content analysis would reveal is the formation of a North American Investment Fund. Robert Pastor discussed this idea in his 2002 speech to the Trilateral Commission in which he argued for just such a fund. Next, the May 2005 CFR task force report argues for the creation of a North American Investment Fund on page 14. The acknowledgments section of this CFR report thanks Sen. John Cornyn (R.-Tex.) for contributing to the task force meeting in New York in 2004. Finally, on June 29, 2006, Sen. Cornyn introduced S. 3622 into the Senate, a bill calling for the formation of a North American Investment Fund. Always the discussion was the same -- to create a new North American investment fund that would supplement World Bank funds expended in a trilateral effort to develop Mexico economically.

In the blog debate with Mr. Hawkins, I pointed out that on page 3 of the May 2005 CFR report, the task force referenced the March 2005 SPP declaration and wrote: “The Task Force is pleased to provide specific advice on how the partnership can be pursued and realized.” Given this sentence, we advance the argument that the CFR task force stated openly the intent to lay out a plan, or “blueprint,” for how the U.S. government should proceed to “pursue and realize” the partnership the Waco, Texas declaration had put into effect as of March 23, 2005. We also argued that the correspondence between the areas identified for trilateral agreement in the May 2005 CFR report and the trilateral executive branch working groups established under SPP.gov correspond quite closely.

All this we consider strong evidence that the May 2005 CFR was a blueprint for SPP.gov, a blueprint which is following the intellectual structure Dr. Pastor has put forth in his many years of labor to bring the NAU into existence. These correspondences are empirical documentary evidence, independent of the assertions of any particular executive who may have a personal agenda that informs their statements of denial.

Claim #2: “Quietly but systematically, the Bush Administration is advancing the plan to build a huge NAFTA Super Highway, four football-fields-wide, through the heart of the U.S.” – Jerome Corsi

Here Mr. Hawkins argues that cites the executive director of NASCO who assets that NASCO is merely a trade organization that is not part of a conspiracy to build NAFTA super-highways. Mr. Harkins’ argument here is identical to his argument in the first claim: he references the denial of an executive as a statement of proof that their organizations are not involved in the alleged activity. The argument suffers the same deficiency: What is the proof the executive is not issuing a self-serving denial conveniently design to deflect public examination and criticism?

Mr. Harkins’ argument, however, is once again non-responsive. We have argued repeatedly that NASCO members are actively involved in building components of what we argue will emerge as a NAFTA super-highway on the model of the Trans-Texas Corridor (TTC-35). We issued a challenge for NASCO to prove their point by repudiating the publicly stated plans of NASCO members, including the Texas Department of Transportation and the Kansas City SmartPort. We charged that NASCO added “debunking” sections to their homepage and website as a public relations make-over designed to deflect criticism. So far, NASCO has not responded, and neither has Mr. Hawkins.

Claim #3: A customs facility in Kansas City is going to become Mexican territory!

Here Mr. Hawkins begins by offering some personal praise, subtly packaging yet another ad hominem attack as professional admiration by characterizing the Mexican customs office being built in Kansas City by KC SmartPort as “a brilliant idea.” He points out that KC SmartPort officials assert that the purpose of the Mexican customs facility will only be to check “outgoing vehicles,” i.e. exports, which evidently Mr. Hawkins believes should give us no reason to object. Finally, Mr. Hawkins relies upon the testimony of yet another potentially self-interested executive, Tasha Hammes, a KC SmartPort marketing manager, who is associated with the Kansas City Area Development Council. Ms. Hammes asserts that the facility will be U.S. sovereign territory leased to Mexico. For Mr. Hawkins, that statement alone ends the debate on the issue.

Again, Mr Hawkins is non-responsive. We have examined internal emails of KC SmartPort executives that were obtained under a Missouri Sunshine Law. We have quoted from these emails to show that KC SmartPort officials communicating with each other in what they most likely assumed were never-to-be-public writings that the Mexican customs facility might just have to be considered Mexican sovereign territory. Moreover, the internal emails document that the question will remain open until KC SmartPort receives approval from the U.S. Department of State of the C-175 form KC SmartPort submitted to U.S. Customs and Border Protection to receive approval on the Mexican customs facility proposal. Mr. Hawkins failed to comment on this internal email evidence that we have presented and argued.

Claim #4: The United States, Mexico, and Canada are going to merge their currencies into something called an Amero.

Again, Mr. Hawkins begins with another form of the ad hominem discrediting argument, belittling anyone who would believe this claim that an Amero is in the works. He writes: “It’s always difficult to reason people out of something that they weren’t reasoned into in the first place and therefore, it’ll be very difficult to convince people who believe in this claim that it’s not going to happen.”

Moving beyond the personal attack, Mr. Hawkins once again advances executive statements to disavow the claim that the Amero is being contemplated by the U.S. government under the Bush administration. Mr. Hawkins notes that President Bush has never advocated this idea. Mr. Hawkins also notes that he spoke with David Bohigian at the Commerce Department who issued a flat denial that SPP was working on merging American currency with that of our neighbors. Again we note, that executive statements are not conclusive when the executives issuing a statement may have a self-interest in advancing a denial.

We have repeatedly argued that the NAU is being put in place incrementally, by executive action that is not explicitly stated in public speeches or advanced through legislation debated in Congress. We have cited the conclusions of Christopher Sands of the Center for Strategic and International Studies that the leaders of the U.S., Mexico, and Canada have committed to a process of bureaucratically led negotiations that will result in trilateral political integration, rather than proceeding through a process of open or public integration that going to the publics of the three countries or their legislatures would entail.

Mr. Hawkins agrees that creating the Amero is an explicit agenda item that Dr. Pastor has actively pursued, so we are spared having to document this point by reference to Dr. Pastor’s many writings and statements arguing for the creation of the Amero. Mr. Hawkins is once again non-responsive to our argument that a large body of academic literature exists arguing the desirability of creating a North American monetary union, whether or not the trilateral currency is named the Amero.

We noted that the updated SPP.gov listing of working groups describes a new “Financial Services Working Group” such that the top-level description does not produce sufficient detail to determine if trilateral integration of currencies is on the agenda, or not.

Even in the creation of the European Union, the creation of the Euro took some time. The European Council meeting in December 1995 in Madrid settled upon the Euro as a definitive name for the new European “unique currency,” even though the origins of the EU can be traced back to the Treaty of Rome in 1957. We expect the actual creation of a NAU unified currency will take several years after the NAU itself is fully realized.

Claim #5: The Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America is the government entity that’s working on merging the United States, Canada, and Mexico!

Predictably, Mr. Hawkins establishes his denial of this claim by referring to executive testimony. David Bohigian at the Commerce Department evidently also told Mr. Hawkins that SPP was just “like a discussion you’d have with your neighbors,” not a treaty or agreement to merge currencies or erase borders. We note the contrast between this statement and the stonewalling the Commerce Department is doing with our FOIA request to see the composition of the SPP.gov working groups, as well as the trilateral agreements and memoranda of understanding being written by these working groups with Mexico and Canada. If the activity in SPP.gov were truly as innocent as Mr. Bohigian asserts, why has SPP.gov resisted posting on the Internet the information our FOIA request is seeking to have released for the public to read?

A close examination of SPP.gov documents that many areas of law and regulation that previously were the purview of the U.S. laws alone are evidently being rewritten by executive branch working groups as new trilateral administrative laws and regulations, without first being submitted to Congress for oversight, new legislation, or other forms of legislative approval.

For instance, the 2005 Report to Leaders on the SPP.gov website documents trilateral agreements to issue biometric ID cards to North American “trusted traders” who will apparently be able to use these cards alone to move freely throughout North America, able to live and work where they choose, without any other specific visa or border crossing documentation. This and the “trusted trader” trilateral agreements later described in the document are highly suggestive of the conclusion that SPP.gov is effectively erasing our borders with Mexico and Canada, even if that explicit purpose is never announced or admitted.

Mr. Hawkins also cites Tony Snow’s press conference denial that the Bush administration intends to merge the U.S. into the NAU. Retractions or restatements by White House press secretaries whose prior briefings were incomplete, or whose information given to the public needed otherwise to be restated are numerous in all modern presidential administrations, Democratic and Republican alike.

Mr. Hawkins argues that the creation of the NAU would require an explicit Constitutional process, possibly even a Constitutional Convention. Again, Mr. Hawkins is non-responsive to our argument that the legal and regulatory infrastructure of the NAU is being created by the executive branch in a de facto manner. Nor did he respond to our example that we already have Chapter 11 tribunals under NAFTA that could evolve into acting like the kind of North American dispute resolution institution described frequently in the writings of Dr. Pastor, as well as in the CFR May 2005 task force report.

Finally, Mr. Hawkins concludes with an admonition that we should be happy SPP.gov is working with our neighbors to improve our security and our prosperity and we shouldn’t worry about a non-existent “vast conspiracy to create a North American Union.” The “don’t worry” part of this “don’t worry, be happy” formula is delivered in the last sentence, where Mr. Hawkins cannot resist one last ad hominem shot. I will refrain from repeating the sentence but I will note that the arguments over the NAU gain credence the closer we look at them. I encourage Mr. Hawkins to rely less on personal testimony derived from involved participants and to spend more time studying and arguing from the extensive evidentiary body of SPP documents which many of us who are examining these questions have linked to in our various articles.

I conclude here as I concluded in the blog debate. I am grateful to Mr. Hawkins for continuing this debate. Challenging the arguments on the NAU should only draw more public attention and scrutiny of the many important issues being debated. I would only encourage Mr. Hawkins to drop the invective, which in the final analysis ends up being less abusive to those of us arguing the NAU than it is to himself.


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Just as Dr. Corsi has encouraged Mr Hawkins to continue the debate, I enourage all of you to read the documents youselves. Compare them with each other and with the incremental and methodical manner in which the EU is being created.

Some of you will most suredly say, "A North American Union will never happen. Americans will never allow it". THAT is EXACTLY why we should be examining these documents today. "never allowing it" begins with us, the freepers and bloggers who read and research the issues ourselves, without having to be told from someone in the media that it is happening and which side to take. If we resolves ourselves to being that kind of creature, we are no better than the liberals we debate.

1 posted on 07/21/2006 2:39:36 AM PDT by Trupolitik
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To: Trupolitik

and of course...the administrators without having read the entire article, hurridly file this away as into the "conspiracy" forum.

What ever will you do when more and more information is released and your readers see that you have pushed this information into the back channels of your site?

Again I ask you, what are you afraid of?



2 posted on 07/21/2006 2:52:09 AM PDT by Trupolitik
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To: calcowgirl; nicmarlo; texastoo; William Terrell; Tolerance Sucks Rocks; cinives; Czar; ...

PING


3 posted on 07/21/2006 6:53:00 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer ("I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: Trupolitik
bttt
for a good laugh later
4 posted on 07/21/2006 6:54:39 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: hedgetrimmer

Just look at some of the keywords. Ridicule is still a game some play. All those keywords and only 5 post.


5 posted on 07/21/2006 7:02:02 AM PDT by processing please hold
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To: Trupolitik

Thanks for posting. Ignore the ankle-biters. They're infected with the New Orleans Katrina Virus. You can tell them a disaster is coming and they'll still ignore it until it hits them and then they'll claim to be blind-sided victims and ask why no one warned them. It's an epidemic in America.


6 posted on 07/21/2006 7:04:23 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (This is no time for bleeding hearts, pacifists, and appeasers to prevail in free world opinion.)
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To: OB1kNOb; hedgetrimmer
Have y'all seen this thread...

Bush worried about border-hopping terrorist

7 posted on 07/21/2006 7:23:17 AM PDT by processing please hold
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To: OB1kNOb
They're infected with the New Orleans Katrina Virus.

That just about sums it up.
8 posted on 07/21/2006 7:26:48 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer ("I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: hedgetrimmer
The fact that this "merger" is even being discussed without disclosure to American citizens should be enough to raise a huge red flag in our minds.

Each one of us who questions this needs to contact Senators and Representatives and ask them for a personal response to our concerns.

The time it would take to speak with those who are supposed to be representing us is worth it, because an insane plan like this would change America forever.

9 posted on 07/21/2006 7:28:04 AM PDT by janetgreen
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To: janetgreen

We've been discussing it here for weeks, and the alleged vehicle for the merger (the SPP) has its own website.


10 posted on 07/21/2006 7:42:39 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: hedgetrimmer

Yup.


11 posted on 07/21/2006 7:50:04 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (This is no time for bleeding hearts, pacifists, and appeasers to prevail in free world opinion.)
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To: Trupolitik

Thanks Tru. Many so-called conspiracy theories have ended up as fact. Agent Orange for one.


12 posted on 07/21/2006 8:42:54 AM PDT by subterfuge (Call me a Jingoist, I don't care...)
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To: hedgetrimmer; Czar; nicmarlo; texastoo; Kenny Bunk; EternalVigilance; jer33 3; janetgreen; ...

Thursday, July 20, 2006



THE NEW WORLD DISORDER
Congressman presses on 'super-state' plan
Asks Bush administration to fully disclose its activities

Posted: July 20, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com


Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Ala.
A congressman is pressing the Department of Commerce to fully disclose a congressionally unauthorized plan to implement a trilateral agreement with Mexico and Canada that critics say could lead to a North American union.

Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Ala., chairman of the Subcommittee on Management, Integration and Oversight of the House Committee on Homeland Security, wrote July 11 to Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez requesting detailed disclosure of working groups in the Security and Prosperity Partnership office within his department.

Referring to an attached letter from a constituent, Rogers wrote to Gutierrez:

Judging by information contained in this letter, a number of legitimate concerns are raised regarding the implementation and operation of the SPP, including the membership and charge of its working groups; potential memoranda of understanding with foreign countries; and whether there has been any Congressional oversight of these working group, to name a few.

Rogers concluded by asking Gutierrez for a prompt review of the issues and for a response "as soon as possible."

The attached constituent letter was written by Eunie Smith, president of Eagle Forum of Alabama and by Bob Couch. They posed the following questions to Rogers:

  • What is the membership of the 30 SPP working groups?

  • What is the charge/working agenda of each of the 30 SPP working groups?

  • Please provide to me any trilateral memoranda of understanding and other trilateral agreements with Mexico and Canada.

  • Please provide findings, reports and presentations of the working groups.

  • Under what congressional action are these working groups constituted?

  • What congressional oversight is there of this process?

  • Are the working groups redefining American laws to make them tri-lateral?

  • What specific plans are there for reporting to Congress?

The constituents' letter also suggested four lines of inquiry should congressional hearings be convened to examine SPP working group activities:

  • Is the sovereignty of the United States threatened since it has been reported that a North American court and a parliamentary body are being proposed, complete with the "Amero" to replace the U.S. dollar?

  • Wouldn't an "outer security perimeter" remove the capacity of policing our borders from the hands of United States citizens?

  • Isn't "harmonizing entry screening and visa and asylum regulations" code for a quantum leap in liberalizing our country's immigration laws?

  • What about the May 2005 CFR Task Force documents calling for a "seamless North American market" and for "the extension of full labor mobility to Mexico" and for a "permanent tribunal for North American dispute regulation," as well as calling for allowing Mexican trucks "unlimited access" to the U.S.

The constituents' letter also attached a copy of a July 2005 article by Eagle Forum founder Phyllis Schlafly entitled, "The Plan to Integrate the U.S., Mexico and Canada."

Schlafly was one of the first analysts and commentators to question the purpose of SPP. In her article, she wrote that the Council on Foreign Relations task force report entitled "Building a North American Community" let the "cat out of the bag about what's really behind our trade agreements and security partnerships with the other North American countries."

Schlafly argued the CFR task force report "spells out a five-year plan for the 'establishment by 2010 of a North American economic and security community' with a common 'outer security perimeter.'"

She commented:

This CFR document, called "Building a North American Community," asserts that George W. Bush, Mexican President Vicente Fox, and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin 'committed their governments' to this goal when they met at Bush's ranch and at Waco, Texas on March 23, 2005. The three adopted the "Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America" and assigned "working groups" to fill in the details.

Rogers' letter to Gutierrez supports a demand for information made last month by Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo.

Smith, on behalf of Eagle Forum of Alabama, told WND she is "very pleased" with Rogers' commitment to inquire into the SPP operations.


SPECIAL OFFER: For a comprehensive look at the U.S. government's plan to integrate the U.S., Mexico and Canada into a North American super-state – guided by the powerful but secretive Council on Foreign Relations – read "ALIEN NATION: SECRETS OF THE INVASION," a special edition of WND's acclaimed monthly Whistleblower magazine.


Previous stories:

Feds stonewalling on 'super state' plan?

Bush 'super-state' documents sought

Tancredo confronts 'super-state' effort

Bush sneaking North American super-state without oversight?



13 posted on 07/21/2006 9:20:39 AM PDT by Smartass ("In God We Trust" - "An informed and knowledgeably citizen is the best defense against tyranny")
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To: Smartass

Good article. Hopefully, some other congressmen will confront the Bush Administration. The majority of Americans still don't use the computer, so Bush lame excuse that it is on the internet sucks. He is as sneaky as his dad.


14 posted on 07/21/2006 10:08:58 AM PDT by texastoo ("trash the treaties")
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To: texastoo

:o)


     
Support the war on terror...

 

15 posted on 07/21/2006 10:59:31 AM PDT by Smartass ("In God We Trust" - "An informed and knowledgeably citizen is the best defense against tyranny")
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To: Smartass

Thanks for the ping SmartA


16 posted on 07/21/2006 3:45:31 PM PDT by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: potlatch

:o)

    Click for Phoenix, Arizona Forecast

 

17 posted on 07/21/2006 5:00:17 PM PDT by Smartass ("In God We Trust" - "An informed and knowledgeably citizen is the best defense against tyranny")
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To: Smartass

LOL, better get out your dustcloth!!


18 posted on 07/21/2006 5:09:16 PM PDT by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: potlatch
What can I say...
LOL, they ran out of bandwidth!

 

19 posted on 07/21/2006 5:19:24 PM PDT by Smartass ("In God We Trust" - "An informed and knowledgeably citizen is the best defense against tyranny")
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To: Smartass

Yep, it happens to all of us sometimes!!


20 posted on 07/21/2006 5:20:33 PM PDT by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: hedgetrimmer; calcowgirl; joanie-f
To poo-poo the NAU as some on FR have been doing requires far more trust in the federal government than I have.

There is simply too much evidence to convincingly deny what is going on right under our noses.

21 posted on 07/21/2006 6:00:22 PM PDT by Czar ( StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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To: Czar

no joke. I thought the only people who unconditionally trust the federal government to take care of them were liberals?


22 posted on 07/21/2006 6:32:16 PM PDT by Trupolitik
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To: Trupolitik; Rex Anderson; Howlin; Common Tator

I have read the documents and, unlike Jerry Corsi, I am fully aware that the Council on Foreign Relations does not run the U.S. government or set its policies.... this kind of stuff belongs in the looney bin.


23 posted on 07/21/2006 6:38:00 PM PDT by PDR
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To: pbrown

The keywords are the best part of the post. I love the keywords!!


24 posted on 07/21/2006 6:42:52 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (404 Page Error Found)
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To: PDR

Looney bin? These threads should be pulled by the Mods, period. Nothing but a distraction.


25 posted on 07/21/2006 6:44:24 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (404 Page Error Found)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

bump


26 posted on 07/21/2006 6:46:47 PM PDT by PDR
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To: PDR

You read the documents? So then you dont see any similaries in the CFR docs and the SPP.gov goals?

Also, you are mischaracterizing the issue. No one is suggesting the CFR is "running" the government. The issue is that these particular recommendations are being carried out. Of course, if you didnt twist the issue, you wouldnt be able to get away with discrediting it without providing any analysis.


27 posted on 07/21/2006 6:54:14 PM PDT by Trupolitik
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Was that you that added all those?


28 posted on 07/21/2006 6:54:40 PM PDT by Trupolitik
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Did you read the documents or are you waiting until the television tells you about it?


29 posted on 07/21/2006 6:55:15 PM PDT by Trupolitik
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To: Trupolitik

yes ive read tehm and the cfr docs were obviously written to conform to the general tenor of what the government is doing... the spp is trying to harmonize the commerical relationship between the three countries so we can bette rcomete with europe


30 posted on 07/21/2006 6:59:32 PM PDT by PDR
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To: PDR
the spp is trying to harmonize the commerical relationship between the three countries yes and the United States is really only a segment of the North American Marketplace. Citizens have no rights, but consumers were made to be marketed to. If we could only get rid of that pesky patriotism then, Bob's your uncle! Right?
31 posted on 07/21/2006 9:00:07 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer ("I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: PDR

and the purpose of your affectation for lower case is?


32 posted on 07/21/2006 9:00:44 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer ("I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: Smartass

You saw what congress passed today while everyone was busy concentrating on the war (especially the MSM)? You cannot take an eye off these guys and they do their worst on Fridays.


33 posted on 07/21/2006 9:40:09 PM PDT by Arizona Carolyn
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To: Smartass; Czar; NewRomeTacitus; La Enchiladita; All
Excellent post (#13), Smartass.

The Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America has as its first essential word ‘security’. What comes to mind when one reflects on the word ‘security’ in a geopolitical sense? Protection from invasion? Protection from attack? The ability to feel confident that unfriendly people, or weapons in the wrong hands, are not able to gain access to one’s environment?

Question: Why is our leadership in Washington concerning itself with the security of the continent when the security of our republic is in such toxic disrepair, and when the threats to our lives and liberties have never been greater? And why should the U.S. enter into a security partnership with a country whose political and military leadership continues to demand that the most vulnerable aspect of our national security remains unaddressed, and who benefits from our exposed vulnerability?

Possible answer: Because our elitist leaders in Washington are more interested in uniting Mexico, Canada and the U.S. into one geopolitical/economic entity than they are in retaining the security and sovereignty of the U.S. And continuing to allow the invasion of illegal aliens from Mexico simply furthers that agenda.

And the fact that there are also terrorist elements gaining entrance to the U.S. via our unguarded southern border is perceived by proponents of the North American Union as simply an unfortunate by-product of the planned … even desired … influx of Mexican illegals.

For those who claim that a wall/fence is impractical and/or ineffective, see Israel’s Security Fence. If one can read this entire account, and still disbelieve that the U.S. needs, and would be made significantly more secure by erecting, a fence along our vulnerable southern border, then I suspect that one is irrevocably of one mind with the North American Union proponents.

The administration, and congress, are well aware of the financial practicality (when compared to the financial nightmare engendered by the illegal aliens’ obscene parasitic drain on the American taxpayer/treasury) of building a wall, as well as the extraordinary successes recorded by Israel in doing so.

Tom Tancredo, in his book ‘Mortal Danger’, writes, We have the necessary technology, combined with human resources, to secure our borders tomorrow. It is a canard for politicians to say that it is impossible and that we must figure out a different way to defend America rather than defending our borders. What they are really saying is, ‘I choose not to defend and secure our borders because there are political ramifications that I fear.’ It is those fears that put the life of every American citizen in mortal danger.

There will be no wall (physical or otherwise) built along our southern border. Mexicans by the thousands will daily continue to stream into our country. Islamo-fascists will cross that border as well. And I don’t know which threat is worse … the dissolution of America’s borders as we are swallowed up by the North American Union, or the prospect of another devastating attack on American soil by madmen from the Middle East.

The so-called NAU/SPP ‘conspiracy theorists’ are simply more capable, than those who choose to ridicule them, of connecting some extremely disturbing dots.

~ joanie
Allegiance and Duty Betrayed

34 posted on 07/22/2006 12:10:58 AM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: Trupolitik; Smartass; joanie-f

Thanks, all, for continuing to bring the SPP/NAU and it's one-branch push out into the light of day. I'd gladly let those who blindly trust the government suffer the inevitable results but for the fact that we're ALL in the same boat with them. Best toss them over the sides while we can - perhaps as fast as this thread was relegated to "Chat".


35 posted on 07/22/2006 7:00:19 AM PDT by NewRomeTacitus (He's just finishing his old man's work.)
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To: hedgetrimmer

and why it is a problem to harmonize the economies of the three countries to create a more powerful economic power -- what are you afraid of? do you really think for one minute that the United States does not lead the way in such an arrangement?


36 posted on 07/22/2006 8:39:15 AM PDT by PDR
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To: PDR
why it is a problem to harmonize the economies of the three countries

It is the lying duplicity of the people doing this that is the problem. The unconstiutional fashion in which they are doing it, is the problem. The fact that 'harmonizing' with other countries lowers our standard of living, and violates our rights is the problem. The fact that 'harmonizing' destroys our American culture for liberty, is the problem.

The United States won't 'lead the way'. Individuals in power might get some advantage, but there is NO advantage for the citizens whose indiviudal rights are threatened by this arrangement.
37 posted on 07/22/2006 9:34:24 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer ("I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: Arizona Carolyn
Somehow, the words loss of trust comes to mind.
Why should we trust the buffoons in Washington anymore?


 

38 posted on 07/22/2006 9:51:50 AM PDT by Smartass ("In God We Trust" - "An informed and knowledgeably citizen is the best defense against tyranny")
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To: joanie-f; Czar; nicmarlo; texastoo; Kenny Bunk; EternalVigilance; jer33 3; janetgreen; ...
Good read Joanie...

Imagine, how much America have given up to Mexican illegals, and how little Mexico has relinquished in return...ZERO.

There are approximately 30 million illegal immigrants scattered about, sucking up our oxygen and resources. It would be only fair that Mexico cede say, Baja California to the United States in payment for this generosity? Moreover, how about ceding to the United States one third of Mexico, for every thirty million that crawl under the fence? Some would say this would be unfair, why?


 

39 posted on 07/22/2006 10:34:17 AM PDT by Smartass ("In God We Trust" - "An informed and knowledgeably citizen is the best defense against tyranny")
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To: NewRomeTacitus

 

40 posted on 07/22/2006 10:53:31 AM PDT by Smartass ("In God We Trust" - "An informed and knowledgeably citizen is the best defense against tyranny")
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To: Trupolitik
I would ask you to ponder this point, which I think is the driving force behind this initiative and all of our current illegal alien problems, but remains totally lost on the American public in general and Free Republic in particular:

If the United States doesn't embrace and absorb Mexico, China will.

Bush is playing defensive geostrategic chess, making moves that are aimed at heading off negative consequences twenty years in the future and that are totally inexplicable to the amateurs watching the game - and still less to the idiots in the MSM. Absorbing Mexico is going to cause us a lot of short to medium term pain - walling Mexico off and abandoning it to preadatory villains in other parts of the globe will cost us the whole country later on. Lesser of two evils.

We don't have to like it, but we probably have to do it.

41 posted on 07/22/2006 11:20:12 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("When the government is invasive, the people are wanting." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: Smartass

That's just it, we shouldn't, but too many do (trust them).


42 posted on 07/22/2006 11:20:17 AM PDT by Arizona Carolyn
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Bush is playing defensive geostrategic chess

No he isn't. In fact he said he thought China's involvement in the Americas was just fine with him. He said it in Chile at an ASEAN meeting.
43 posted on 07/22/2006 12:45:54 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer ("I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: Trupolitik

"Did you read the documents or are you waiting until the television tells you about it?"

You are tooooo funny, and so on target!

Thank you!


44 posted on 07/23/2006 4:38:23 AM PDT by Larousse2 (Like June Carter Cash, "I'm just tryin' to matter.")
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To: Smartass

Thanks for posting such informative articles.


45 posted on 07/23/2006 4:39:28 AM PDT by Larousse2 (Like June Carter Cash, "I'm just tryin' to matter.")
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To: NewRomeTacitus
Best toss them over the sides while we can - perhaps as fast as this thread was relegated to "Chat".

At least it wasn't yanked completely.

Employers held on charges of harboring illegal aliens is no longer posted.

I'm surprised Myth Debunked - A Latin conservative tidal wave is not coming is still hanging in the editorial sidebar.

46 posted on 07/24/2006 6:47:30 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem

The "Empoyers Held on Charges" thread got real ugly when a FROBL said Travis McGee probably lied about being a SEAL and went on with several other insults. I posted a review Matt wrote on another SEAL's book and pointed out that the SpecOps community doesn't abide frauds.

Then I made sure Matt's friends here saw the smear-job. Ashes in my stocking this year (but it was worth it).


47 posted on 07/24/2006 7:11:26 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus
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To: Trupolitik

I don't have time to read the same BS over and over again.

I wonder what book Corsi is going to be hawking in 6 months.


48 posted on 07/24/2006 7:12:25 PM PDT by MikefromOhio (aka MikeinIraq - don't argue with internet people, they are on the internet for a reason)
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To: NewRomeTacitus; neverdem
PMFJI, gentlemen.

" I made sure Matt's friends here saw the smear-job"

Yes, we sure did, and some responses are what got the thread flushed down the memory hole. (There are ways of caching threads before that happens, of course.)

NRT, I saw your defense of Travis. Good on ya!

49 posted on 07/25/2006 11:20:03 AM PDT by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism. *NRA*)
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To: Joe Brower; NewRomeTacitus
There are ways of caching threads before that happens, of course.

How do you do that? Do you have to google the title? Is that the way to have it cached on Google.

P.S. I saw the Travis bashing also. That's one of the reasons of why I went looking for the thread.

50 posted on 07/25/2006 12:05:34 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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