Posted on 08/21/2006 8:19:46 PM PDT by AnimalLover
Wing stalls. Engines revert to idle (per Boeing). No climb. Certainly not 3400 ft. Every pilot I have talked to has said "no climb." My father was an Air Force aircraft accident investigator... he said "no climb".
Other proof. TWA800 performed an almost perfect ballistic fall from 13,800 ft. It splashed down exactly where ballistic computers calculated it would in exactly the amount of time it should have. Had there been a zoom climb, it would have take more than 8 seconds to climb... an additional 8 seconds to return to 13,800 adding 16 seconds to the flight that the radar show conclusively was not there. TWA800 would have had to fly for 59 seconds if there had been a zoom climb... TWA800 was in the Atlantic Ocean between 38 and 43 seconds after the initiating event.
That's all well and good, but if WorldNUTDaily is purporting it to be true, I have to take it with a grain of salt the size of Utah....
Frankly, I think these people have simply gone insane.
Have you noticed that poor rcocean is frothing on and on (on another site) about the evils of those who dare oppose Buchanan?
Poor thing...
Dare I ask which site is that?
I'm always looking to add to my collection of looneytoons web addresses.
It's the blog of our favorite pimp-bloggin' daddy...
Whoops, my mistake. You've got freepmail.
Sorry I don't have a list but as things unfold, I'll post to this thread.
Maybe if EVERYONE wrote their respective representatives and demanded an investigation - no matter how it turns out - accident or attack - we can put this to bed once and for all.
Understand that since Richard Clark announced this "exploding tank" theory - not one plane has been fixed in all these 10 years. Funny that this was the first time this happened and, it hasn't happened since?
The following is what Captain Ray Lahr has been trying
to get ahold of
Records:
CIA:
08/16/2005
SECOND DECLARATION of Terry N Buroker regarding Motion for Partial Summary Judgment
407 Pages
Feb 28, 2005
CIA
261 Pages
Mar. 1, 2005
Air Force
2 Pages
Mar 3, 2005
Dept. of Transportation
23 Pages
Apr. 11, 2005
NASA
77 Pages
May 12, 2005
FBI
585 Pages
June 17, 2005
CIA
73 Pages
NTSB:
NTSB Declarations:
Declaration of Melba Moye
Chief of the Public Inquires/FOIA Branch Office of Research and Engineering, NTSB
Declaration of Dennis Crider
National Resource Specialist for Vehicle Simulation in the Vehicle Performance Division of the Office of Research and Engineering, NTSB
Declaration of Douglas Brazy
Mechanical Engineer in the Vehicle Recorder Division of the Office of Research and Engineering, NTSB
Declaration of Doug Breuhaus
Chief Engineer of Air Safety Investigation, The Boeing Company
NTSB Records:
NTSB Record 1 - Rapidfax Lead Sheet, Boeing Commercial Airplane Group Air Safety Investigation (TWA Mass Properties)
NTSB Record 2 - Rapidfax Lead Sheet, Boeing Commercial Airplane Group Air Safety Investigation (TWA 800 - Aerodynamic Characteristics)
NTSB Record 3 - Rapidfax Lead Sheet, Boeing Commercial Airplane Group Air Safety Investigation (TWA 800 - Aerodynamic Characteristics)
NTSB Record 4 - Fax Cover Sheet, Boeing Commercial Airplane Group Air Safety Investigation (TWA 800 - Aerodynamic Characteristics)
NTSB Record 5 - Chart Describing TWA flight 800 Mass Properties
NTSB Record 6 - Graph and Chart Depicting the Lift Coefficient of Boeing Model 747 aircraft; Graph and Chart Depicting Pitching Moment Coefficient of Boeing Model 747 aircraft.
NTSB Record 7 - Graph Depicting the Corrected Net Thrust At Maximum Power Level Angle.
NTSB Record 8 - 3 Graphs and 2 Charts Depicting the Lift Coefficient, Pitching Moment Coefficient, and the Drag Coefficient of Boeing Model 747 Aircraft
NTSB Record 9 - Graph titled "Free Response to Mass Prop and Aero Changes: Variation due to Thrust"
NTSB Record 10 - Fax Lead Sheet, Boeing Commercial Airplane Group Air Safety Investigation
NTSB Record 11 - Telecopier Transmittal Form, Air Line Pilots Assn (ALPA), Engineering & Accident Investigation Department
NTSB Record 12 - E-mail message chain between and among staff of the NTSB and the Boeing Company concerning TWA flight 800
NTSB Record 13 - Comments by an employee of The Boeing Company concerning the NTSB trajectory study
NTSB Record 14 - Text titled "Simulation Results"
NTSB Record 15 - Computer program written by NTSB staff to simulate the flight path of aircraft
NTSB Record 16 - Handwritten notes concerning TWA flight 800 "Post nose break trajectory"
NTSB Record 17 - Handwritten notes of NTSB employee's calculations for Addendum II to the Main Wreckage Flight Path Study for the TWA flight 800 investigation
NTSB Record 18 - Seven versions of a Presentation concerning the Affects of Forward Fuselage Loss
NTSB Record 19 - Graphic representations of FAA radar data for TWA flight 800: 1) Radar Data Overhead View Up to Last Secondary; 2) FAA Radar Data From NYTRACON, NYCTR and BOSCTR (Main Wreckage East-West Location); and 3) FAA Radar Data from NYTRACON, NYCTR and BOSCTR (Main Wreckage North-South Location)
NTSB Record 20 - Preliminary sections of the Safety Board's Aircraft Accident Report for TWA flight 800
NTSB Record 21 - Chart Titled "Radar Sites"
NTSB Record 22 - Text and Chart concerning alignment of radar data for TWA flight 800
NTSB Record 23 - Chart of a segment of radar data
NTSB Record 24 - Chart titled "TWA 800 Main Wreckage Simulation"
NTSB Record 25 - Handwritten Notes of Comments on Study
NTSB Record 26 - Air Line Pilot's Association (ALPA) Letter and Notes with comments on reports - two copies)
NTSB Record 27 - Table tracking the location in the ocean of debris from TWA flight 800
NTSB Record 28 - Chart titled "Query 3" - location of debris
NTSB Record 29 - Study Report: NTSB Main Wreckage Flight Path Study
NTSB Record 30 - Draft Addendum II to Main Wreckage Flight Path Study
NTSB Record 31 - Text and graph titled "Later Nose Separation Timing
http://raylahr.entryhost.com/updates.htm
also Court Proceedings@
http://raylahr.entryhost.com/CourtDocuments.htm
Ten years ago, they (administration) weren't too anxious
to acknowledge terrorism. And, it was just before the
election and we know nothing had been done with previous
hits like WTC in '93.
Came across the following which makes VERY INTERESTING
READING Also, Kenneth Timmerman is a very honest, reliable individual.
Iran responsible for TWA 800 tragedy?
Posted: November 15, 2003
By Jack Cashill
Few Americans know the Middle East as well as Kenneth Timmerman, author of the eye-opening new book "Preachers of Hate: Islam and the War on America" (Crown Forum). Timmerman, in fact, has been reporting on this part of the world since 1975.
No dilettante, in 1982 Timmerman was taken hostage in Lebanon and spent more than three weeks there in an underground cell. Given his willingness to hit the streets, he has developed excellent sources throughout the Middle East, and his reporting reflects this. "Preachers of Hate" has a scary firsthand freshness about it that few other books about that benighted region can match.
Deeply impressed by the book and Timmerman's other reporting – he also wrote the bold best seller "Shakedown" about Jesse Jackson – I called him this week to see what, if anything, he knew about TWA Flight 800. His response was stunning and adds a new layer of knowledge to an extraordinary episode in American history.
For the record, TWA Flight 800 was destroyed off the coast of Long Island on July 17, 1996. According to the FBI, 270 eyewitnesses would tell its agents they saw streaks of lights ascending from the sea or arching over towards the plane in the seconds before it exploded. Only the uninformed and self-interested continue to believe that those streaks were all optical illusions unrelated to the destruction of the plane.
As it happens, in mid-June 1996 one of Timmerman's sources contacted him with a warning. He told Timmerman that the intelligence service of Iran's Revolutionary Guards Corps was planning an attack on an American airliner. The source, who was living in exile, was himself a former member of the Iranian military with access to Iranian intelligence circles. He had been vetted by several U.S, intelligence agencies and found credible.
Two weeks later, the source repeated the warning. Although his information was not precise, he believed that the targeted flight would originate in Athens – as TWA Flight 800 actually did – but he made no mention of missiles and implied that a bomb would be planted on board.
For his part, Timmerman was concerned enough to contact a friend who worked in counter-terrorism at the State Department, and the friend was concerned enough to bring in the FAA. As far as Timmerman knows, nothing came of this warning.
About a week later, or about a week before the destruction of TWA Flight 800, Timmerman's source contacted him with an "urgent" warning. This time, he said, the attack was "imminent." Timmerman alerted a well-placed friend who set up an emergency meeting with a deputy director of operations for the CIA. On this occasion, Timmerman provided the CIA with a written summary of the warnings to date.
Timmerman believes that his warnings were ignored. Indeed, within a week of the meeting, TWA Flight 800 was blown out of the sky. After that tragic event, another Timmerman source – this one from inside the American intelligence community – confirmed that Timmerman's report to the CIA "jibed completely" with what the source and his colleagues had been hearing as well, namely an imminent "Iranian attack on an American airliner." Timmerman was dismayed to hear the Clinton administration claim that it had received "no warning" prior to the plane's destruction. It had likely received several, some possibly more specific than the one he offered.
As I told Timmerman, I am not sure his warnings were ignored. In our book "First Strike: TWA Flight 800 and the Attack on America," James Sanders and I document at least six highly credible sightings of a U.S. Navy cruiser or cruisers prowling up and down the coast of Long Island on that fateful July 17. Even those who had been vacationing on Long Island for years had never seen anything like this before. It has been argued that these cruisers were on some sort of training exercise, but "training" may well have provided the cover for a more substantive mission, just two days before the start of the Atlanta Olympics.
In "First Strike," Sanders and I make the case that the mode of attack was a small plane, perhaps a business-class jet, filled with explosives. If we are correct in this deduction, it might explain why missile-bearing cruisers and U.S. Navy submarines were tracking the JFK flight path off the south coast of Long Island. As Timmerman allowed, "Maybe they did take my warnings seriously."
If Iranian intelligence planned the attack, there is still some question as to who executed it. The fact that the plane was destroyed on July 17 adds a rogue variable to the equation. This past July 17 the major media made no mention of the Flight 800 anniversary, but they did call attention to the fact that the date was posted prominently in public places throughout Iraq. It was – I should say "had been" – Iraq's National Liberation Day, the day the Baath Party took power 35 years earlier, and these are a date-conscious people.
Were Mecca to be bombed on the 4th of July, the disinterested observer would logically conclude that either the USA was responsible or that some provocateur did it to implicate the U.S. The same holds true with the destruction of TWA Flight 800 on July 17. The odds are strong that either Iraq was involved or that the Iranians timed the attack to shift the blame to Iraq. In either case, the timing is not likely to have been coincidental
None of this information seems to have intrigued the bipartisan Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. In its annual reports for 1996 and 1997, the committee made no mention at all of TWA Flight 800, this despite the fact these reports document virtually all CIA activity, from the serious to the trivial.
And the CIA was surely involved with TWA Flight 800. We have long known that the CIA was responsible for the notorious animation that discredited the eyewitnesses. We now know that the CIA had received highly credible warnings before the plane's destruction. The absence of any information at all about the CIA on a still unsolved case cries out for explanation.
A good person to ask might be Sen. John Kerry. He sat on the Select Committee in 1996 and 1997. He has twice on national TV referred to the destruction of TWA 800 as a "terrorist act," and now he is desperately refocusng his presidential campaign.
Senator, what better way to attract national attention than to tell the truth about TWA Flight 800?
http://wnd.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35610
Telling the truth about ANYTHING would bring attention to that former presidential candidate, sort of like "man bites dog."
I've emailed Jack Cashill in the past and pinged him to various FR threads. He's a good guy, and like Jayna Davis and Anthony Shaffer, they've revealed things that we would never have known otherwise, because they didn't shut up and go away when they were told to. I'm glad to read this turn of events.
Agreed.
I intend to do that maybe later today or tomorrow. And to encourage others to do it.
I'm skeptical there will be sufficient ground swell. But rubbing things in the faces of key people and key groups of the public is good--however long it takes.
At times I've been suspicious of the official line on this story but the fact that no group ever claimed credit for the downing of this aircraft leads me to doubt any conspiracy theory.
read the thread
Morning Cagey!
I don't even know if that weapon find was related.
I just thought of it while reading the thread and posted it.
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that remembers it.
(Shoe bomber?)
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