Posted on 05/04/2008 10:31:21 AM PDT by jazusamo
In a breach of the local code of ethics -- and possibly the law -- 32 are killed after straying onto a neighbor's land.
FAIRPLAY, COLO. -- This is not a place where buffalo are welcome to roam.
When 32 bison lumbered across a fence that separated their owners' vast, wind-swept expanse of land from a neighboring ranch in March, they ended up dead.
Some fell where they were shot. Others scattered, galloping for miles before they succumbed in the snow.
They were victims, contend the bison's owners, of a murder plot hatched by the neighbor, a Texan frustrated by what he called the repeated trespassing of the herd onto his land.
Law enforcement officials are closemouthed, saying only that they are investigating.
At issue, said Park County Undersheriff Monte Gore, is whether the culprit violated Colorado's century-old open-range law, which says livestock may go pretty much where they please.
Throughout the West, many states still adhere to the open-range principle, a throwback to the 1800s that says it is not a rancher's responsibility to keep livestock fenced in -- it's everyone else's job to keep them out.
If you don't want someone else's cow on your land, the law goes, build a fence. If the cow crosses your fence, you can lock it up until its owner retrieves it, and you can sue the owner for damages. But you can't kill it, said Rick Wahlert, Colorado brand commissioner.
In Colorado's high country, transplanted city dwellers often don't understand, Wahlert said.
"They ask why should they have to fence their property?" he said. "I say, 'OK, fine. You lived in town. Say you had a swimming pool. Did you let the neighbor kids run through? How did you keep them out? You put up a fence. It's the same concept.' "
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Moonshine huh?
Girl, is seems you’ve been holding out on me!
In the meantime, that jerk who hired the shooters should face a punishment that is more than just monetary. What he did was unbelievably disgusting.
Even some grocery stores carry bison. I don't care for the burgers, but chunks make a delicious stew.
Oh, agreed.
Just pointing out that a “legal fence,” as defined in western states’ fence laws, stands zero change of holding out bison that want to come over to your side.
An interesting side-note: Now that I’ve seen the definition of a “legal fence” in Colorado, here’s another thing: a legal fence in CO stands almost as little chance at holding out sheep.
Three strands of barbed wire have almost zero change of holding sheep on one side or the other. You’d need at least five wire, more often six, with stays in the middle of a 20-foot span to keep ‘em out. Been there, done that.
Sorry, you’re confounding “owned” with “livestock.” Bad assumption.
Colorado Revised Statutes, Title 35, defines what “livestock” are. Bison aren’t included in the definition.
The issue isn’t whether or not they were owned. The issue comes in when you try to collect damages from someone’s animals estray onto your property through a legal fence. The statutes in most western states say that you may collect damages from owners of estray livestock on your land, that you may impound estray livestock on your land until such time as you receive payment for the damages, etc.
Well, that provision in the law gives you no relief if the animals estray on your land are not defined as “livestock.” They can come off someone else’s land onto your land and if they’re not part of the definition of “livestock,” the law is silent on what you can do to collect for damages.
I’ve been around this post in Nevada, with a cow county DA no less. In Nevada, sheep that don’t enter your land from a grazing allotment aren’t considered ‘estray livestock’ and there’s nothing you can do about sheep that come off your neighbor’s deeded land onto yours, because the definition of ‘estray’ for sheep defines them as only estray when they come off a grazing allotment.
But if they died as a result of bloat in my alfalfa fields, then I was responsible for them, because the NRS for animals that die on your field didn’t include a qualification of how they got there, ie, whether they were from an allotment or deeded ground. If someone else’s animals died on your property, you were responsible for the loss.
My solution was to push them out of my gates into the street. The law was silent on whether I could impound them, and the law said I couldn’t shoot them, so I wasn’t going to be liable for them. As soon as they became a hazard to traffic, then the sheriff could do something about them.
The livestock laws in the west are clearly only completely thought through for cattle and horses. Sheep were thrown in with a grudging admission that some people ran sheep.
When most of these laws were written, the cattlemen thought the bison was gone and done forever and they’d never have to worry about them. Hence the silence in the law.
Goats, which are becoming increasingly popular, are also not livestock. And goats will jump just about any “legal fence” anywhere in the west.
You need to add some pork fat. Bison is very low-fat meat, and in burgers or steaks, it tastes dry, dry, dry. Like powdered toast.
Add some pork (or beef) fat to the burger meat and it gets real tasty.
I’d say that Hawn has a problem on his hands. If he’d shot only animals on his land, he might have a defense in court, since the USFWS, as well as ranchers surrounding Yellowstone, regularly shoot bison that get outside the park boundaries. The reason why is that it is nigh on impossible to push them from horseback or ATV’s where you want them to do. If you really get ‘em stirred up, they’re going to cause serious injury or death to anyone that gets in their way.
So if he’d shot ONLY those animals that had broken through a fence onto his land, or better yet, called the county sheriff and had the LEO’s have a go at trying to push them (and likely ultimately resorting to shooting them), then he’d be in the clear. And were I in his boots, I’d have called the law in and said “See this animals? They ain’t mine. Get ‘em out of here.”
But as I’m reading your information, the bison were found dead not only on Hawn’s land, but also out on BLM land, yes?
Then two things are obvious:
1. Downare isn’t feeding those animals if they’re wandering out all over the place, and
2. Hawn is in heap big trouble. So are the clowns he hired or pulled in as triggermen.
If the animals are not livestock then they are wild animals. Charge these yahoos for illegally taking animals that are protected or out of season. Add in no hunting license. Confiscate all property involved in the crime. Charge these creeps the same way you would charge a low-life doing the EXACT SAME THING. A 5-year sentence in prison with Bubba as cellmate and loss of all savings seems about right...especially if Bubba has AIDS.
Just had some bison top sirlion this evening. 1" thick on the grill 4 1/2 min per side on high. Very tasty and juicy. Like all lean meat don't cook the s#$t out if it.
What part of the bison are you eating ?
Top sirloin.
I have watched Bison casually walk through brand new barb wire fence. It really is something- they simply walk without effort and the fence breaks away as if it were made of string. The power they have is awesome.
Thanks geo.
Scientists: Bison in Illinois earlier (aren’t you relieved?)
South Carolina homepage (thestate.com) | Tue, Aug. 30, 2005 | Associated Press
Posted on 09/03/2005 7:17:31 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1476377/posts
Of the 32 bison killed, only eight were shot on the Hawn property.
The other dead bison were found / shot on other private property and nearby federal lands.
Could be BLM and also USFS ?
The shooters are also in big trouble for many different reasons. They better lawyer up, too.
You really need to read the law. Here’s a bit of unsolicited advice: If you’re going to be this studiously ignorant of the law, you might want to keep quiet if you ever get into a scrape with a LEO.
There aren’t just two classifications of animals in the law. Livestock, as a legal term, is defined in the statutes just as I’ve said. Bison/buffalo are not included in the definition. Just because an animal isn’t included in the definition of “livestock” doesn’t make it “wild.” A dog isn’t included in the definition of “livestock,” yet no one would claim their neighbor’s dog coming onto their property is a case of a “wild” animal upon your property.
A “wild” animal is not only one that isn’t owned by anyone. If the animal comes from domesticated blood lines, then a domesticated animal for whom there is no ownership claimed is called “feral.”
For example, many people get all weepy about the “mustangs” in the west. The truth of these horses is:
1. They, at one time, were livestock or domestic animals, depending on whether they were livestock or pets, respectively.
2. People turned them out and disclaimed ownership. At this point, they became feral.
3. Now people have hung the term “wild horses” on them, even tho if you catch them up and train them, you can work them pretty much like any other horse, disproving the notion that they’re “wild.” They’re just domesticated animals that have been allowed to run loose, ie, feral, like stray dogs.
These bison sound like a domesticated (from a legal standpoint) herd. You can’t make a bison do anything it doesn’t want to do, but if the herd was obtained from other domestic bison herd owners, then these are domestic animals, not wild.
Back to the issue at hand:
There is no hunting license needed to shoot bison on deeded lands in Colorado; you can book a hunt (for money) on many private ranches throughout the west (Colorado included) and hunt bison. No license is needed, you just need to pay the ranch owner. There are (to my knowledge) only three truly “wild” herds of bison in the US that can be entered into B&C books; for these, you would need a license and to draw a tag.
Since these animals were owned privately, and were supposed to be on the adjoining deeded lands, they are not “protected.” Not even Yellowstone’s bison are protected. As soon as they wander outside the boundaries of the park, they can be (and often are) shot.
The issue in this case is one of destruction of personal property (that much is plain), and possibly ‘conversion’, ie, turning someone else’s property into cash without a proper sale having taken place. This would/could apply if the person calling in the shooters took a fee for allowing the shooters access and opportunity to shoot the bison. Since each animal is worth in excess of $2,500 purely for the meat (which was allowed to go to waste) and probably several hundred dollars more for a tanned hide, taking nothing but the slaughter value amounts to a possible felony charge for each animal. As to any possible conversion - I don’t know whether the DA would try to make the charge.
If the owner can show they were part of a breeding program, and that the female bison were pregnant, then he can also demand compensation for the calf crop he can document.
If the owner can show that he was selling animals based on bloodlines, then he could claim an even larger premium.
The DA, if he has half a brain, should cut through all the emotional crap he’ll be hearing about this and treat the animals the way he would a car that a neighbor burned up because the owner of said car parked on the offender’s land. There’s clearly felony charges available to be made here, but not the ones you think.
You forgot to check the Colorado Code of Regulations which as you know are the rules set up by various State agencies to actually enforce and/or enact the Statutes.
“Livestock” means cattle, horses, mules, burros, sheep, poultry, swine, llama, cervids, bison and goats, regardless of use. Livestock includes any animal that is used for working purposes on a farm or ranch, excluding dogs; or is raised for food or fiber production; and any other animal designated by the Commissioner.
So yes in Colorado law Bison are defined as being livestock. I am assuming the Commissioner has the power under the law to decide which species are regulated under his authority and therefore can define livestock to include animals not specified in Statute.
Course lawyers for one side will argue only the genus Bos should fall under the definition of livestock and the other will point to DOA defintion but hey if things were clear we could get rid of lawyers, right?
This guy doesn’t sound like a typical Texan. The clues I picked up on from your post which point to an elitist left leaning liberal (besides his very un-neighborly actions) start with his degrees from SMU & UT, and include residence in various liberal locals like Austin & Houston, as well as his previous employment with west coast tech type companies.
Not the kind of background for someone in which I’d have a lot of trust or confidence. My guess is that he would turn up his nose and sneer at a typical Texan. IF he grew up here, he didn’t learn much.
I did check the CCR’s, but not, I will readily admit, exhaustively. 87 pages of results came back for “livestock” — I found a definition in the sales and use tax section and I read the first 10 pages of results and within that 10 pages, the sales/use tax definition seemed to be held consistently.
Here’s what I find under “sales and use tax” CCR’s for definition of “livestock:”
1 CCR 201-5: ...”Livestock means cattle, horses, mules, burros, sheep, lambs, poultry, swine, ostrich, llama, alpaca and goats or other animal raised for food, fiber or hide production, and alternative livestock under 35-41.5-102, C.R.S. but not pet animal as defined in 35-80-102(10), C.R.S.”
No mention of bison/buffalo in that section except as the “other animals raised for food/fiber...” which then gets into the practices of the producer.
If there are conflicting definitions within the CCR’s, then I’m sure a lawyer will argue the point that the state can’t get their act together on defining livestock.
My experience with regulations and statutes on this issue in Nevada was that the DA said that if the regulations didn’t speak to the statute involved, the statute’s definition won out. This will vary from state to state, of course.
My eyes glazed over when I did a search for “livestock” in the CCR’s — man, do they spend a lot of time filibustering about livestock and mountain lions in the CCR’s.
I’m a little curious as to how many times these Buffalo have torn down or crossed the fence. I’d like to hear the whole history on this.
Thanks.
Is Austin like Berkeley or Boulder ?
Lots of liberals ?
Austin is like the Boulder of Texas.
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