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FR Gun Club: Answers to the Most Common Arguments Against Concealed Carry on College Campuses
Concealed Campus.org ^ | 9/11/2008 | Concealed Campus

Posted on 09/11/2008 3:09:05 AM PDT by chicagolady

It's back to school time kiddies!How can we ensure the safety of our college kids? More people are starting to realize the cold hard facts that an armed student is a safe student. The following are some good answers to questions about guns and campuses. While we love the Second Amendment, we need to arm ourselves with knowledge also to answer the naysayers!

Argument: "Guns on campus would lead to an escalation in violent crime."

Answer: "Since the fall semester of 2006, state law has allowed licensed individuals to carry concealed handguns on the campuses of all nine public colleges in Utah. Concealed carry has been allowed at Colorado State University (Fort Collins, CO) for more than five years and at Blue Ridge Community College (Weyers Cave, VA) for more than thirteen years. After allowing concealed carry on campus for a combined total of more than seventy semesters, none of these eleven schools have seen a single resulting incident of gun violence, a single gun accident, or a single gun theft. Likewise, none of the forty ‘right-to-carry’ states have seen an increased rate of gun violence since legalizing concealed carry, despite the fact that licensed citizens in those states regularly carry concealed handguns in places like office buildings, movie theaters, grocery stores, shopping malls, restaurants, churches, banks, etc. Numerous studies*, including studies by University of Maryland senior research scientist John Lott, University of Georgia professor David Mustard, engineering statistician William Sturdevant, and various state agencies, show that concealed handgun license holders are five times less likely than non-license holders to commit violent crimes."

*“Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns,” John Lott and David Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies (v.26, no.1, pages 1-68, January 1997); “An Analysis of the Arrest Rate of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders as Compared to the Arrest Rate of the Entire Texas Population,” William E. Sturdevant, September 1, 2000; Florida Department of Justice statistics, 1998; Florida Department of State, “Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report,” 1998; Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express-News, September 2000; Texas Department of Corrections data, 1996-2000, compiled by the Texas State Rifle Association

Argument: "Guns on campus would lead to an increased number of suicides by college students."

Answer: "Studies* show that 90% of suicides are committed in the home. Because most college students over the age of twenty-one (the minimum age to obtain a concealed handgun license in most states) live off campus, allowing concealed carry on college campuses would have very little impact on the ability of college students to possess firearms in their homes and, therefore, little to no impact on the overall number of suicides by college students."

*“Youth and Adolescent Suicide: A Guide for Educators,” Oregon Resiliency Project, University of Oregon, 2003; After Suicide: A Ray of Hope for Those Left Behind, Eleanora Betsy Ross, 2001

NOTE: At the University of Texas—a major university with over 50,000 students—a quick comparison of campus housing statistics and concealed handgun licensing statistics reveals that there would likely be no more than ten to twenty concealed handgun license holders living in on-campus housing.

Argument: "Guns on campus would distract from the learning environment."

Answer: "Ask anyone in a ‘right to carry’ state when he or she last noticed another person carrying a concealed handgun. The word 'concealed' is there for a reason. Concealed handguns would no more distract college students from learning than they currently distract moviegoers from enjoying movies or office workers from doing their jobs.

“In most states with ‘shall-issue’ concealed carry laws, the rate of concealed carry is about 1%. That means that one person out of 100 is licensed to carry a concealed handgun. Therefore, statistically speaking, a packed 300-seat movie theater contains three individuals legally carrying concealed handguns, and a shopping mall crowded with 1,000 shoppers contains ten individuals legally carrying concealed handguns. Students who aren't too afraid to attend movies or go shopping and who aren't distracted from learning by the knowledge that a classmate might be illegally carrying a firearm shouldn't be distracted from learning by the knowledge that a classmate might be legally carrying a firearm.”

Argument: "Colleges are too crowded to safely allow the carry of concealed weapons."

Answer: "Colleges are no more crowded than movie theaters, office buildings, shopping malls, and numerous other locations where concealed handgun license holders are already allowed to carry concealed handguns. The widespread passage of shall-issue concealed carry laws has not led to spates of shootings or gun thefts at those locations."

Argument: "A person with a gun could ‘snap’ and go on a killing spree."

Answer: "Contrary to popular myth, most psychiatric professionals agree that the notion of a previously sane, well-adjusted person simply ‘snapping’ and becoming violent is not supported by case evidence. A Secret Service study* into school shootings concluded that school shooters do not simply snap and that a person’s downward spiral toward violence is typically accompanied by numerous warning signs."

*“Safe School Initiative: An Interim Report on the Prevention of Targeted Violence in Schools,” U.S. Secret Service National Threat Assessment Center in collaboration with the U.S. Department of Education with support from the National Institute of Justice, Co-Directors Bryan Vossekuil, Marissa Reddy PhD, Robert Fein PhD, October 2000

Argument: "A dangerous person might jump someone who is carrying a gun, take the gun, and use it to do harm."

Answer: "Even assuming that this hypothetical dangerous person knew that an individual was carrying a concealed handgun, which is unlikely, there are much easier ways for a criminal to acquire a firearm than by assaulting an armed individual."

Argument: "Dorms are notoriously vulnerable to theft. It would be too easy for someone to steal an unattended firearm from a dorm."

Answer: "The vulnerability of dorms to theft does not necessitate a campus-wide ban on concealed carry by licensed individuals. There are numerous other options, from community gun lockups to small, private gun safes that can be secured to walls, floors, bed frames, etc."

NOTE: On most college campuses very few students of legal age to obtain a concealed handgun license still live in dorms. Even at the University of Texas—a major university with over 50,000 students—a quick comparison of campus housing statistics and concealed handgun licensing statistics reveals that there would likely be no more than ten to twenty concealed handgun license holders living in on-campus housing.

Argument: "It’s possible that a gun might go off by accident."

Answer: "Accidental discharges are very rare—particularly because modern firearms feature multiple safety features and because a handgun’s trigger is typically not exposed when it is concealed—and only a small fraction of accidental discharges result in injury. SCCC feels that it is wrong to deny citizens a right simply because that right is accompanied by a negligible risk."

NOTE: Only about 2% of all firearm-related deaths in the U.S. are accidental, and most of those are hunting accidents and accidents involving firearms being openly handled in an unsafe manner. A person is five times more likely to accidentally drown, five times more likely to accidentally die in a fire, 29 times more likely to die in an accidental fall, and 32 times more likely to die from accidental poisoning than to die from an accidental gunshot wound.

ADDITIONAL NOTE: The accidental discharge that occurred in the cockpit of a U.S. Airways jet, on March 22, 2008, occurred during the application of a poorly designed trigger lock, which FAA regulations require be in place during landing.

Argument: "It’s unlikely that allowing concealed carry on college campuses could help prevent a Virginia Tech-style massacre because most college students are too young to obtain a concealed handgun license."

Answer: "Nineteen of the thirty-two victims of the Virginia Tech massacre were over the age of twenty-one (the minimum age to obtain a concealed handgun license in Virginia and most other states)."

Argument: "Colleges are emotionally volatile environments. Allowing guns on campus will turn classroom debates into crime scenes."

Answer: "Before shall-issue concealed carry laws were passed throughout the United States, opponents claimed that such laws would turn disputes over parking spaces and traffic accidents into shootouts. This did not prove to be the case. The same responsible adults—age twenty-one and above—now asking to be allowed to carry their concealed handguns on college campuses are already allowed to do so virtually everywhere else. They clearly do not let their emotions get the better of them in other environments; therefore, no less should be expected of them on college campuses."


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: banglist; frgc; frgunclub; guns
An armed Student is a safer and happier student! The Students should conceal and carry their weapons so the Teacher does not have too!
1 posted on 09/11/2008 3:09:07 AM PDT by chicagolady
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To: CholeraJoe; Slip18; sig226; Shooter 2.5; Manly Warrior; DaveLoneRanger; Eaker; P8riot; ...

FR Gun club Ping! This is my first time posting a thread for the FR Gun Club! If I did something wrong, or Screwed up, PLEASE don’t shoot me!!


2 posted on 09/11/2008 3:15:11 AM PDT by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
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To: chicagolady

Looks good. Thanks for posting the article. And welcome to the club. :)


3 posted on 09/11/2008 3:25:33 AM PDT by sig226 (Obama '08 - No, You Can't.)
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To: chicagolady

It is better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it!

A thought from “gun free” New York City on the seventh anniversary of 9/11!


4 posted on 09/11/2008 3:36:51 AM PDT by cyberslave (The time has come to talk of many things.)
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To: chicagolady

lol!


5 posted on 09/11/2008 3:50:14 AM PDT by Alia
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To: chicagolady

Woohoo! My kind of thread! I’m on the national Board of Directors for SCCC, as well as a media liaison, state head, campus leader, and sometimes, I boil the coffee.

By the way, not to be too solicitous, but we could use some donations for our upcoming legislative battles. There’s a PayPal link right on the home page.


6 posted on 09/11/2008 3:59:37 AM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (Gun-free zones aren't. Visit ConcealedCampus.com for more)
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; wku man; SLB; ..
Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

For the FreeRepublic "banglist", please click HERE .

7 posted on 09/11/2008 5:40:51 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: chicagolady

You done right fine there.


8 posted on 09/11/2008 5:44:51 AM PDT by umgud
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To: chicagolady
Awesome first contribution!!! Welcome to the club!!!!

My youngest will be going to college in a couple of years, she already has her carry gun picked out in the safe.

JOIN THE FR GUN CLUB PING LIST HERE!!!
Photobucket Image Hosting

9 posted on 09/11/2008 5:48:22 AM PDT by Pistolshot (Palin has run a state, city, and a business. NObama has only run his mouth.)
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To: chicagolady
I went back to school for my Masters about 8 years ago. I have a CCW, but couldn't carry on days that I had to attend classes. No weapons were allowed on campus, period. You couldn't even have it stowed unloaded in a locking gun safe in your trunk.

During the time I was in school they had a rash of muggings and rapes on the campus. They handed out whistles to students and told them not to travel alone while on campus. We even had police officers taking classes and they couldn't (legally) bring weapons on campus.

10 posted on 09/11/2008 5:50:27 AM PDT by mbynack (Retired USAF SMSgt)
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To: chicagolady
... "Colleges are emotionally volatile environments. Allowing guns on campus will turn classroom debates into crime scenes." ...


My, what a novel definition for partying.

NOTICE: The debate classes are closed until further notice.

11 posted on 09/11/2008 5:50:50 AM PDT by G.Mason (Duty, Honor, Country)
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To: Joe Brower

Here’s an easy one for lib bed-wetters: “When bad people do bad things, who’s going to stop them? You?”


12 posted on 09/11/2008 5:52:53 AM PDT by Noumenon (Time for Atlas to shrug - and to pick up a gun)
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To: chicagolady

Very nice post. Good job!


13 posted on 09/11/2008 5:54:07 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: chicagolady
Nicely done. Welcome aboard.

Never Forget September 11.

14 posted on 09/11/2008 7:48:58 AM PDT by LimaLimaMikeFoxtrot ("If you don't have my army supplied, and keep it supplied, we'll eat your mules up, sir"-Gen.Sherman)
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To: chicagolady; beltfed308; wastedyears; warrior9504; marktwain; The Spirit Of Allegiance; basil; ...


You've been pinged because of your interest in Students for Concealed Carry on Campus and the ongoing mission to remove the double standard of concealed carry between college campuses and city sidewalks.
Add me! / Remove me

15 posted on 09/11/2008 7:53:31 AM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (Gun-free zones aren't. Visit ConcealedCampus.com for more)
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To: Noumenon
When bad people do bad things, who’s going to stop them? You?”

Very good.

Perhaps you could help me with the saying:

When your cell phone battery is dead, how many minutes until the police arrive?

16 posted on 09/11/2008 7:59:18 AM PDT by TYVets
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To: chicagolady
Nicely done, ma'am.

L

17 posted on 09/11/2008 8:03:53 AM PDT by Lurker (She's not a lesbian, she doesn't whine, she doesn't hate her country, and she's not afraid of guns.)
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To: mbynack
During the time I was in school they had a rash of muggings and rapes on the campus.

When our daughter was in college she worked at night near the front door of a women's dorm.

Among her instructions were:

"If you see a student who has been raped or assaulted, DO NOT call the local police, call campus security."

Many colleges and universities don't want little things like rapes or assaults reported to police, it would hurt their image.

18 posted on 09/11/2008 8:14:20 AM PDT by TYVets
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To: TYVets

It gets better.

Depending on the situation, you can do it this way:

“When bad people do bad things, who’s going to stop them? You?” Then sweep your coat or vest aside to revel your carry and say, “Or me?”


19 posted on 09/11/2008 8:35:34 AM PDT by Noumenon (Time for Atlas to shrug - and to pick up a gun)
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To: chicagolady
Photobucket Image Hosting
20 posted on 09/11/2008 8:35:48 AM PDT by Pistolshot (Palin has run a state, city, and a business. NObama has only run his mouth.)
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To: TYVets

Let’s see:

Cell phone in one hand, pistol in the other.

Which one stops a rapist faster?

And now the bonus question:

Which one stops them PERMANENTLY?


21 posted on 09/11/2008 8:37:55 AM PDT by Noumenon (Time for Atlas to shrug - and to pick up a gun)
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To: TYVets

“When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.”


22 posted on 09/11/2008 8:43:20 AM PDT by Pistolshot (Palin has run a state, city, and a business. NObama has only run his mouth.)
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To: Noumenon
Then sweep your coat or vest aside to revel your carry and say, “Or me?”

NEVER, EVER advertise that you are carrying.

Concealed MEANS concealed and what you suggest in a number of jurisdictions can be construed as 'brandishing', a misdemeanor in some, and a 3rd or 4th class felony in a lot of others.

23 posted on 09/11/2008 8:48:30 AM PDT by Pistolshot (Palin has run a state, city, and a business. NObama has only run his mouth.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Please add me to the list. Right now, the older brother of a co-worker is in trouble for carrying in his back pack on campus. He’s going to school in Iowa (a non-CCW state, I believe?). He’s from Pa. He lives off campus in a very dangerous neighborhood with a very high crime rate.

Perhaps he should not have had it in his backpack, but he’s not a bad guy. He’s the one you’d WANT to be there if there was a bad guy on campus. He could go to jail or, at least, be permanently suspended from school. His family, all responsible gun owners - is just devastated by the whole situation.


24 posted on 09/11/2008 8:51:36 AM PDT by sneakers (Liberty is the answer to the human condition.)
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To: sneakers

How did they learn he was carrying? Be as specific as you can please.


25 posted on 09/11/2008 8:55:26 AM PDT by B4Ranch ("Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you"--John Steinbeck)
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To: B4Ranch

His brother just said they don’t know, but they have an idea is was an acquaintance. Other than that, he hasn’t given many details. He comes from a Christian home, and just asked for prayers.


26 posted on 09/11/2008 9:00:58 AM PDT by sneakers (Liberty is the answer to the human condition.)
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To: chicagolady; DaveLoneRanger

Very well thought out arguments and responses. Good Luck!


27 posted on 09/11/2008 9:02:22 AM PDT by B4Ranch ("Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you"--John Steinbeck)
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To: chicagolady

Wow, great post. I actually wish that our college would allow this. We have hunters come on campus two times a year to cull the deer population.. It wouldn’t be much of a jump...


28 posted on 09/11/2008 9:11:59 AM PDT by Toki
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To: chicagolady

“An armed society is a polite society.”

Robert Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon (1942)


29 posted on 09/11/2008 9:17:05 AM PDT by X. OTerica
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To: chicagolady

An armed society is a more polite society.


30 posted on 09/11/2008 11:06:40 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: X. OTerica
Man you're fast ... beat me by just two hours. ;^)
31 posted on 09/11/2008 11:12:31 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: chicagolady


32 posted on 09/11/2008 11:31:34 AM PDT by mainestategop (MAINE: The way communism should be)
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To: chicagolady

33 posted on 09/11/2008 11:32:08 AM PDT by mainestategop (MAINE: The way communism should be)
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To: mainestategop

Great Pics! A PICTURE is worth a thousand words!!


34 posted on 09/11/2008 2:13:48 PM PDT by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
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To: LimaLimaMikeFoxtrot

I am on the run today, I am in Washington D.C. This morning I attended a hearing in the Rayburn Building and Families of American Citizens who have lost loved one because illegal aliens killed them testified. I was in tears to hear their storiies. My good friend Peter Gadiel of 9/11 families lost his son in the Twin Towers on 9/11.

He helped set up this meeting. I was so glad to e sitting in the audience giving moral support.


35 posted on 09/11/2008 2:18:38 PM PDT by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
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To: chicagolady

You did great, Chicagolady. Proud of you!

The only two persons I know who have shot themselves were LEOs. They both shot themselves in the butt whilst getting their firearm that was in their belt behind their waist. Both were just flesh wounds. Little hard to sit down for a while.


36 posted on 09/11/2008 11:35:01 PM PDT by Slip18 (McCain/Palin)
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To: chicagolady
Bookmark
37 posted on 09/12/2008 3:27:22 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: chicagolady
I was reading quickly but did not see the argument that ccw'ers on campus lack the experience needed to respond to a volatile situation effectively without posing more of a danger with their own wildly inaccurate shooting. The obvious counter to this also represents a counter to some of the other arguments: With the number of combat hardened and experienced veterans returning to school on the new GI Bill, a layer of highly trained and experienced citizens represents an additional layer of safety in the classroom. The obvious tired counter argument from the antisis: Yup, they'll snap from Post traumatic Stress Syndrome and become the shooter. Studies show this not to be the case. So we'll trust them to kill the enemy overseas but take away the same implement of destruction stateside? Ridiculous.
38 posted on 09/12/2008 6:31:03 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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