Posted on 05/24/2009 10:20:53 AM PDT by Logic n' Reason
“Turn off Alex Jones and go see for yourself.
There are plenty of books on the fraternity.”
Who is Alex Jones?
I’ve read the books on Masons written by Masons. I’ve also read the comparisons of Masons and their “beliefs” with Christianity. My opinion stands.
In fact, the ability of Christianity to retain its essential nature, of the centuries, is quite remarkable, given the weakness of many of our leaders.
I would call that a “miracle” in itself, and therefore argue that the weaknesses of the Church actually support the Divine origin of the Church, as we are obviously too weak to “keep the faith” without the Grace of God!
And one cannot argue or converse reasonably about a given topic when one participant bases their "facts" on a belief. When belief is used as the argument, then thought and learning has ceased.
Again, thanks for the comments tho!
“From the Catholic Encyclopedia:
“In view of these several reasons Catholics since 1738 are, under penalty of excommunication, incurred ipso facto, and reserved to the pope, strictly forbidden to enter or promote in any way Masonic societies.”
Again, if a Catholic becomes a mason they are by that act excommunicated.”
Become a Mason and your excommunicated, advocate the killing of the unborn in the public arena, and you are not even excluded from the sacraments. Go figure. Becoming a Mason threatens the church’s power base, excommunicating abortion proponents threatens the church’s pocketbook.
AFAIK, the KT had nothing particular to do with the Fourth Crusade that conquered Constantinople.
The history of that event is also not nearly as one-sided as the general perception.
I vote for “somewhere in between”
The KKK has had three quite different incarnations.
1860s version: primarily anti-black and anti-unionist white.
1920s version, by far the largest and most powerful: primarily anti-immigrant and anti-Catholic, to a relatively minor extent anti-semitic. At this point the blacks were quite thoroughly "in their place." They were also anti-booze, supporting Prohibition.
The 1960s version bounced back to being anti-black.
Read the Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin - free ebook at Gutenburg.org
Does this make him "not a Christian"? Hardly.
Does it disable his witness AS a christian? definitely.
I think deep in his heart he does see the contradictions, but simply refuses to recognize or explore the potential damage that it does, primarily because he has been involved with it for so long and has a difficult time denouncing all the good that he sees that it has accomplished in society. He is currently not actively involved, but if asked about it he will have nothing but good things to say about freemasonry. This does not make him right about the issue... but it doesn't make him non-christian either.
God? You post on FR? I had no idea.
You might try talking to your father before assuming how he feels and thinks.
You, and the rest of the people opining that you can't be a christian and a mason are really saying "you can't be a real christian like me and be a mason."
Didn't Christ say something about what happens to people that make judgements?
Regards.
Actually the penalties are exacly the same for both. All Catholics who advocate abortion are automaticaly excommunicated and forbidden to receive the sacraments. That doesn't prevent a lot of pro-abortion 'Catholics' from profaning the sacraments, nor does it prevent 'Catholic' Masons from doing the same
“Actually the penalties are exacly the same for both.”
You are probably right - there is no penalty.
The differing viewpoints are, I suppose, to be expected. But I guess I was hoping that these points of view could be expressed with a minimum of emotion and a maximum of thoughtfulness.
Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. And I noticed that those professing christianity and/or catholocism seem to be the most entrenched, unmoveable, and unthinking in their "opinion" (belief).
Taken as a "temperature" about 350 years ago...or 500 to 600 years ago...it is not at all difficult to see how religious wars took root.
But we're all much better than that now.....right?
Unless of course, we are speaking about the present day religious war between islam and western christianity!
As Linda Elerby used to say, "...and so it goes."
So long as you do not believe that going to Hell is a penalty you are right.
I was not even aware that "Gutenberg.org" existed!
Thanks again.
I’m not catholic and do not adhere to the preponderance of man made rituals that the catholics practice in their version of Christianity. Most of what they practice was never taught by the master himself, Jesus, i.e. the Pope as head of the church, the mixing of pagan rituals with church theology, the mass, pergatory etc. Find all that in the Bible? Don’t think so. I’m not just talking out of the top of my head. I’ve looked into these things for over 50 years and have come up with my conclusions.
I’m not familiar with the Knights, other than it’s a good works group, as is the Shriners. Not knocking that part of it at all. What they do is admirable. It’s the false teaching of the Mason’s and the Shriners that makes them dangerous. For example, when a Mason dies he must wear the masonic apron or he won’t be able to enter the celestial temple. They also have rewritten the Bible calling it the Masonic Bible. Something the Bible expressly forbids and gives explicit warnings about. They take blood oaths and other weird rituals thinking that they are pleasing God. It’s nothing more than another well accepted cult. So be very careful when be drawn into the Masonic circle. Choose wisely.
Templars held the Holy Land for 200 years.
Freemason’s legends are just that Legends.
Remember the mason’s claim to have a linage back to Solomon and Hiram Abiff.
I think that's a key question and the responses to that question often illustrate the problem.
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