The Illustrious Dead: The Terrifying Story of How Typhus Killed Napoleon's Greatest Army

Amazon.com ^ | Unknown | Unknown

[x]

An obvious (and maybe dumb) question is this: Why was typhus a worse problem for Napoleon’s army than for the Russians? I would guess the answer is that the French forces were more concentrated, allowing the disease to spread more easily.

Shorter lines of supply and friendlier local population, too. The Russians would have had better access to food, clothing, and shelter than the French, who would have had to bring everything with them or steal it from the natives.

[decimon]

An obvious (and maybe dumb) question is this: Why was typhus a worse problem for Napoleon’s army than for the Russians? I would guess the answer is that the French forces were more concentrated, allowing the disease to spread more easily.

The Wikipedia entry for typhus shows three types. "Epidemic typhus" comes from lice. Maybe the Russians didn't get the lice.

[ClearCase_guy]

Thick tan line: Napoleon's vast army heading for Moscow.
Thinning black line: Napoleon and a couple friends coming home.

[Madam Theophilus]

Isn’t typhus spread through contaminated water? Having thousands of men encamped around streams and lakes, living in close proximity to latrines, etc.

[decimon]

Isn’t typhus spread through contaminated water?

Typhoid fever. Whole other disease.

[hellbender]

I checked Wikipedia, and it says millions died of typhus in Russia during WW I and the subsequent Russian civil war. Russians are certainly not immune.

[decimon]

Attrition. Definitely attrition. ;-)

[hellbender]

You are thinking of typhoid fever, which is a completely different disease, spread by the oral-fecal route. Typhus is spread by blood-sucking insects or other arthropods.

[decimon]

I checked Wikipedia, and it says millions died of typhus in Russia during WW I and the subsequent Russian civil war. Russians are certainly not immune.

If they're human then they are not immune. But in this campaign they were possibly not louse infected as were the French.

[hellbender]

I'm having trouble researching the issue with an internet connection slower than those found on the Russian steppes, but I think surviving typhus confers lifetime immunity. More of the Russians may have had the disease already before the war. Also, as has been said, the French forces were larger and more concentrated.

I also wondered why the French were affected more by yellow fever than the Haitian blacks. This is probably the answer:

" Disease outbreaks in towns and non-native people may be more serious because of higher densities of mosquito vectors and higher population densities.[15]"

Although the pathogens are very different, typhus is also an insect-borne infection, so the same factors might apply as with yellow fever.

[Hugin]

Yep. One can only speculate on what might have happened though, if instead of getting (literally) bogged down in Haiti, Napoleon had sent those troops directly to New Orleans and fortified the Mississippi as he planned to do.

[Argus]

General Mud and Marshal Snow. The same two defeated Hitler as well.

[SunkenCiv]

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[bmwcyle]

That bug and the little ice age that is the same as we are heading.

[SunkenCiv]

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	Gods Graves Glyphs	Thanks decimon. Something that's bugged me over the years -- Napoleon must have been aware of Herodotus' "Historia", and the account of the Persians trying to chase down the Scythians up in what is I guess the Ukraine, anyway, the plains north of the Black Sea. They never could catch up to them (the Scythians would see them marching up, pack up everything, and ride off for some hours, leaving the Persians a few days march behind), and finally had to amscray because of the change of the season. And even if Nappy overlooked that, one would think that the Kaiser would have remembered Napoleon. And for that matter, that *Hitler* would have remembered both of them... Or all three... To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
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[Monkey Face]

I saw a segment about that. How Nappy coulda been a contendah, if: The weather hadn’t turned bad, typhus hadn’t been such a killer, and Russia hadn’t been so stubborn.

Actually, by the amount of dead, I would say that the graves of Nappy’s army show more evidence of typhus than war injuries. Mass graves have been found where the interred had no injuries. On doing further research, it was found that typhus was the culprit. Works fer me!!

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks, Berosus.

[SunkenCiv]

Even the cold wouldn't account for it, although that certainly would have taken some toll on a bunch of dehydrating untreated sickos. I wonder if it was just the flu, given the time of year for the retreat? But of course, the campaign was six months long, plenty of time for typhus to hit them in the summer month, er, months. ;') Always pays to get your innoculations up to date before you travel in Asia.

[Monkey Face]

According to the segment I saw, typhus was the culprit, based on the DNA samples of the unmarred bones. And there were several mass graves between Russia and Europe that gave evidence of the disease.

We can survive cold, given the proper tools, but I suspect this was beyond what the retreating soldiers could handle.

[SunkenCiv]

Typhus was a common risk in the Nazi death camps and concentration camps.

Typhus is caused by one of two types of bacteria: Rickettsia typhi or Rickettsia prowazekii. The form of typus depends on which type of bacteria causes the infection. Rickettsia typhi causes murine or endemic typhus. Endemic typhus is uncommon in the United States. It is usually seen in areas where hygiene is poor and the temperature is cold. Endemic typhus is sometimes called "jail fever." Lice and fleas of flying squirrels spread the bacteria. Murine typhus occurs in the southeastern and southern United States, often during the summer and fall. It is rarely deadly... Rickettsia prowazekii causes epidemic typhus and Brill-Zinsser disease. Brill-Zinsser disease is a mild form of epidemic typhus. It occurs when the disease re-activates in a person who was previously infected. It is more common in the elderly. -- *