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The Illustrious Dead: The Terrifying Story of How Typhus Killed Napoleon's Greatest Army
Amazon.com ^ | Unknown | Unknown

Posted on 05/31/2009 1:03:31 PM PDT by decimon

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Even as the Russians retreated before him in disarray, Napoleon found his army disappearing, his frantic doctors powerless to explain what had struck down a hundred thousand soldiers. The emperor’s vaunted military brilliance suddenly seemed useless, and when the Russians put their own occupied capital to the torch, the campaign became a desperate race through the frozen landscape as troops continued to die by the thousands. Through it all, with tragic heroism, Napoleon’s disease-ravaged, freezing, starving men somehow rallied, again and again, to cries of “Vive l’Empereur!”

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(Excerpt) Read more at amazon.com ...


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Health/Medicine; History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: bonaparte; france; godsgravesglyphs; napoleon; napoleonbonaparte; typhus; worldhistory
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To: hellbender
An obvious (and maybe dumb) question is this: Why was typhus a worse problem for Napoleon’s army than for the Russians? I would guess the answer is that the French forces were more concentrated, allowing the disease to spread more easily.

Shorter lines of supply and friendlier local population, too. The Russians would have had better access to food, clothing, and shelter than the French, who would have had to bring everything with them or steal it from the natives.

21 posted on 05/31/2009 1:38:07 PM PDT by x
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To: hellbender
An obvious (and maybe dumb) question is this: Why was typhus a worse problem for Napoleon’s army than for the Russians? I would guess the answer is that the French forces were more concentrated, allowing the disease to spread more easily.

The Wikipedia entry for typhus shows three types. "Epidemic typhus" comes from lice. Maybe the Russians didn't get the lice.

22 posted on 05/31/2009 1:39:22 PM PDT by decimon
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To: decimon

Thick tan line: Napoleon's vast army heading for Moscow.
Thinning black line: Napoleon and a couple friends coming home.

23 posted on 05/31/2009 1:43:33 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (We are a ruled people, serfs to the Federal Oligarchy -- and the Tree of Liberty thirsts)
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To: hellbender

Isn’t typhus spread through contaminated water? Having thousands of men encamped around streams and lakes, living in close proximity to latrines, etc.


24 posted on 05/31/2009 1:44:49 PM PDT by Madam Theophilus
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To: Madam Theophilus
Isn’t typhus spread through contaminated water?

Typhoid fever. Whole other disease.

25 posted on 05/31/2009 1:49:48 PM PDT by decimon
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To: decimon

I checked Wikipedia, and it says millions died of typhus in Russia during WW I and the subsequent Russian civil war. Russians are certainly not immune.


26 posted on 05/31/2009 1:51:24 PM PDT by hellbender
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To: ClearCase_guy

Attrition. Definitely attrition. ;-)


27 posted on 05/31/2009 1:51:37 PM PDT by decimon
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To: Madam Theophilus

You are thinking of typhoid fever, which is a completely different disease, spread by the oral-fecal route. Typhus is spread by blood-sucking insects or other arthropods.


28 posted on 05/31/2009 1:52:41 PM PDT by hellbender
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To: hellbender
I checked Wikipedia, and it says millions died of typhus in Russia during WW I and the subsequent Russian civil war. Russians are certainly not immune.

If they're human then they are not immune. But in this campaign they were possibly not louse infected as were the French.

29 posted on 05/31/2009 1:54:15 PM PDT by decimon
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To: decimon
I'm having trouble researching the issue with an internet connection slower than those found on the Russian steppes, but I think surviving typhus confers lifetime immunity. More of the Russians may have had the disease already before the war. Also, as has been said, the French forces were larger and more concentrated.

I also wondered why the French were affected more by yellow fever than the Haitian blacks. This is probably the answer:

" Disease outbreaks in towns and non-native people may be more serious because of higher densities of mosquito vectors and higher population densities.[15]"

Although the pathogens are very different, typhus is also an insect-borne infection, so the same factors might apply as with yellow fever.

30 posted on 05/31/2009 2:18:15 PM PDT by hellbender
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To: Cheburashka

Yep. One can only speculate on what might have happened though, if instead of getting (literally) bogged down in Haiti, Napoleon had sent those troops directly to New Orleans and fortified the Mississippi as he planned to do.


31 posted on 05/31/2009 2:32:46 PM PDT by Hugin (GSA! (Goodbye sweet America))
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To: Krankor

General Mud and Marshal Snow. The same two defeated Hitler as well.


32 posted on 05/31/2009 2:42:25 PM PDT by Argus (We've gone downtown to Clown Town, and that's where we'll be living from now on..)
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33 posted on 05/31/2009 4:12:13 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: decimon

That bug and the little ice age that is the same as we are heading.


34 posted on 05/31/2009 4:13:56 PM PDT by bmwcyle (Hey GOP follow Dick Cheney's lead)
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To: decimon; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

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Thanks decimon.

Something that's bugged me over the years -- Napoleon must have been aware of Herodotus' "Historia", and the account of the Persians trying to chase down the Scythians up in what is I guess the Ukraine, anyway, the plains north of the Black Sea. They never could catch up to them (the Scythians would see them marching up, pack up everything, and ride off for some hours, leaving the Persians a few days march behind), and finally had to amscray because of the change of the season. And even if Nappy overlooked that, one would think that the Kaiser would have remembered Napoleon. And for that matter, that *Hitler* would have remembered both of them... Or all three...

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
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35 posted on 05/31/2009 4:16:05 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv

I saw a segment about that. How Nappy coulda been a contendah, if: The weather hadn’t turned bad, typhus hadn’t been such a killer, and Russia hadn’t been so stubborn.

Actually, by the amount of dead, I would say that the graves of Nappy’s army show more evidence of typhus than war injuries. Mass graves have been found where the interred had no injuries. On doing further research, it was found that typhus was the culprit. Works fer me!!


36 posted on 05/31/2009 4:25:58 PM PDT by Monkey Face (Is a vegetatian permitted to eat animal crackers?)
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To: JoeProBono
From a London Bathroom Wall, A Lesson in Complementaries by Stephen J. Dubner
Thanks, Berosus.
37 posted on 05/31/2009 4:28:33 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Monkey Face
Even the cold wouldn't account for it, although that certainly would have taken some toll on a bunch of dehydrating untreated sickos. I wonder if it was just the flu, given the time of year for the retreat? But of course, the campaign was six months long, plenty of time for typhus to hit them in the summer month, er, months. ;') Always pays to get your innoculations up to date before you travel in Asia.
38 posted on 05/31/2009 4:36:24 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv

According to the segment I saw, typhus was the culprit, based on the DNA samples of the unmarred bones. And there were several mass graves between Russia and Europe that gave evidence of the disease.

We can survive cold, given the proper tools, but I suspect this was beyond what the retreating soldiers could handle.


39 posted on 05/31/2009 4:40:50 PM PDT by Monkey Face (Is a vegetatian permitted to eat animal crackers?)
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To: Madam Theophilus; decimon; hellbender
Typhus was a common risk in the Nazi death camps and concentration camps.
Typhus is caused by one of two types of bacteria: Rickettsia typhi or Rickettsia prowazekii. The form of typus depends on which type of bacteria causes the infection. Rickettsia typhi causes murine or endemic typhus. Endemic typhus is uncommon in the United States. It is usually seen in areas where hygiene is poor and the temperature is cold. Endemic typhus is sometimes called "jail fever." Lice and fleas of flying squirrels spread the bacteria. Murine typhus occurs in the southeastern and southern United States, often during the summer and fall. It is rarely deadly... Rickettsia prowazekii causes epidemic typhus and Brill-Zinsser disease. Brill-Zinsser disease is a mild form of epidemic typhus. It occurs when the disease re-activates in a person who was previously infected. It is more common in the elderly. -- *

40 posted on 05/31/2009 4:42:34 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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