Posted on 08/25/2009 5:57:21 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
Voroshilov gave them to the British and French military staffs at 1 P.M. the next day, August 25. “In view of the changed political situation,” he said, “no useful purpose can be served in continuing the conversations.”
William L. Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich
This song hit big after it was released in May 1939 and became Glenn Miller’s signature song.
Final Soviet-British-French pact talks update at reply #2.
Bump
Leni
Voroshilov’s reply to Drax reminds me of the ending of “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off”:
“You’re still here? It’s over! Go home!”
New Republic and The Nation castigating Stalin for his “Munich?” Apparently they haven’t been given the change of tune yet from their masters in Moscow. Time to be recalled for some “refresher training.” I’d like to see how they spin the partition of Eastern Europe in the next several months.
Speaking of the partition of Eastern Europe, the “Secret Protocol” may still be secret, but it appears everyone assumes it exists based on the Times article. And indeed it does.
To my knowledge, the Secret Protocol remained secret until Weiszacker’s testimony at Nuremburg. During examination on the Non-Aggression Pact, he mentioned the Secret Protocol, at which time the Soviet Prosecutor, who knew of it, went ballistic and objected to the testimony. He was overruled by the British Lord Justice, and much to the embarrassment of the Soviets, it became known. Having the Soviets participate at Nuremburg was necessary in light of the wartime alliance and the suffering of their people, but it was a bit much of “pot and kettle.”
Now as to Danzig: IMHO after WWI the allies (read: France) had no business *giving* Danzig to Poland. Danzig was part of Prussia / Pomerania (German people) for hundreds of years.
It would be like giving Louisiana or Florida to Mexico if we had a war over the SW and lost.
It will make more sense to you if you speak French, which I don't (my German's rough enough that I can at least listen to the Nazi recordings and get some of it, I tried to learn French in High School, but quickly realized that the French teacher was an A****LE! So I got a D). But even if you don't speak the language it will give you some feel for the tension of the time, you can hear it in his voice.
Hitler's midnight conference - Aug 25, 1939
The German News Agency meanwhile is already spinning the story of Polish aggression.
...the following announcements were made by the official German News Agency:
“A Polish division at war strength has surrounded Danzig. The military preparations by the Poles have now assumed an offensive character. The war spirit within the Polish Army has reached its climax”.
“The Polish Press is sounding the drum for an offensive war. All signs point to the fact that the Poles, within the next few hours, will undertake a coup against Danzig”. (More at link).
Everything is ramping up now. I did find it interesting that the New York Times is already reporting on the Soviets and Germans dividing up Eastern Europe in their agreement. I didn't think that leaked out until the Soviets began to move into their partition of Poland in mid September.
That’s real interesting. I always thought the secret protocol became evident after the Soviet moved into their part of Poland. I guess that fact wouldn’t really prove out that there was a written protocol for that (as well as the rest of Eastern Europe). I was pretty surprised to see anything on the fact in today’s paper.
I think everyone “knew” Hitler and Stalin were going to divide Eastern Europe. It’s too obvious an implication. But there was no written documentation, and the “smoking gun” of the Secret Protocol was hidden in German and Soviet diplomatic archives.
All of the concern over Stalin’s complicity in the Secret Protocol was forgotten after June 22, 1941. From that point, defeating Hitler with Stalin’s cooperation became the paramount interest, and what had happened before that date faded into the background.
After the German defeat, many of the archives became property of the victorious powers. Although the western allies “possessed” the Secret Protocol, and I’m not sure of this, they either had not found it yet, or they had and didn’t want to make it public because the wartime alliance hadn’t been completely broken by the Cold War. Not yet, anyway.
In a related story, Hell Froze Over.
Mother.......tell your children not to look my way...
It's probably where my assumptions on the matter come from.
Thats some secret protocol that makes the front page within days.
Of course, thats probably where they got their funding
"It would be like giving Louisiana or Florida to Mexico if we had a war over the SW and lost. "
Were you born last night, pal? What, precisely, did you think war was all about -- especially back in the "olden times"??
Of course, it was a staple of German post-WWI propaganda -- and not just Nazi propaganda -- that Germany had been grievously "mistreated" by the allies' Versailles Peace Treaty. And this "mistreatment" not only explained but morally justified Germany's efforts for a military "round two."
But the real, brutal fact of the matter is that Germany was not in the least "mistreated" after WWI -- indeed she was not treated nearly harshly enough. And that fact was well recognized at the time by such far-sighted leaders as US General John Pershing. They did not want WWI to end before allied armies had marched into Berlin and crushed the spirit of German militarism.
Otherwise, they correctly predicted, Germans would claim they had not really been defeated, and therefore did not deserve ANY punishment for starting WWI.
If you wish to fairly judge whether Germany had been "mistreated" after WWI, then you should measure the treatment Germany received compared to that:
By these standards, Germany was treated quite fairly and mildly.
But obviously, in politics and propaganda, it's perceptions which matter most, and since Germans were able to convince themselves that they had suffered much abuse at allied hands, they were soon ready for a new leader -- a fuhrer -- to restore their "rightful place" as the dominant power in Europe.
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