Posted on 11/11/2009 5:48:28 PM PST by JoeProBono
It looked like a stunning reversal: the same church that helped defeat gay marriage in California standing with gay-rights activists on an anti-discrimination law in its own backyard. On Tuesday night, after a series of clandestine meetings between local gay-rights backers and Mormons in Salt Lake City, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced it would support proposed city laws that would prohibit discrimination against gays in housing and employment.
The ordinances passed and history was made: It marked the first time the Salt Lake City-based church had supported gay-rights legislation.
(Excerpt) Read more at google.com ...
“support proposed city laws that would prohibit discrimination against gays in housing and employment.”
These are federal laws already. Why the heck do they need
city laws?
Shameful act by Mormons. What if a Mormon landlord refuses to rent to two lesbians? This would be considered criminal discrimination under the law favored by Mormons. This has occurred in California where a Christian woman landlord was found guilty of violating CA’s anti-discrimination law on renting to gays even though her basis was that she was compelled by religious belief.
Giving in to terror is never a good idea. I have a feeling these people are just doing this because they are afraid after their churches were burned down after Prop 8.
Shameful act by Mormons. What if a Mormon landlord refuses to rent to two lesbians? This would be considered criminal discrimination under the law favored by Mormons. This has occurred in California where a Christian woman landlord was found guilty of violating CA’s anti-discrimination law on renting to gays even though her basis was that she was compelled by religious belief.
Does this mean they’re getting behind gays? A welcomed move I’m sure.
Gay laws are the least of our problems. I mean... do you really care about the gays? They are harmless. The Mormon’s sold out...but let’s focus on the communists in DC. We can address the gay issues once we clean up the government.
I have a better one........what if two filthy disease ridden queers refused to rend to two Mormons.....is that discrimination?
The six-million dollar question!
“They must get the extra-special underwear. “
the what?????
go figure....they will be for gay marriage next i guess
Yes. I care a great deal about my homosexual family members and friends. I care that they are wounded people who are enslaved to a sinful act. I also care about the damage to marriage and family that widespread acceptance of the so-called homosexual lifestyle causes.
That being said, the fact that many of my fellow Christians get so fired up over faggotry puzzles me. Yes, homosexuality is a filthy, antisocial vice, but it's a helluva lot less damaging to society than divorce. Our Lord never mentioned sodomy by name, but He forbade divorce and remarriage specifically and in no uncertain terms. Yet most of the "Christian" people who castigate the homos for being immoral think it's perfectly okay to make a mockery of the God-given Sacrament of Marriage by marrying and divorcing and remarrying.
I'm against "gay marriage", but my fellow Christians who believe in divorce and remarriage are just as guilty of destroying the institution of marriage as the swishiest Mr. & Mr. in Massachusetts.
I'd rather my boy be a flaming faggot than the kind of "straight man" who would dump his wife like garbage.
27 ¶ And after these things he went forth, and saw a publican, named Levi, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he said unto him, Follow me.
28 And he left all, rose up, and followed him.
29 And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them.
30 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?
31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luke 5: 27-31
Surely the Lord was not endorsing the behavior of publicans by eating with them, was he? And when the woman who was taken in adultery was brought before Jesus...
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
John 8 10,11
Jesus didn't condemn her but He didn't forgive her either. He merely stated "Go and sin no more." Did He, in doing so, endorse her adultery? Of course not. So, given His example, are we to completely disassociate ourselves from sinners and deny their existence and legitimate rights as human beings? The gay marriage fight is about redefining rights and giving the radical gay rights movement legal say over what any and all religions can and cannot believe. This particular law simply deals with housing and employment discrimination. So, are we following His example if we refuse any and all contact with sinners by denying their legitimate rights? Or should we, as He did, recognize their humanity with all its frailties? Hate the sin, not the sinner, right?
You said it, my friend.
Thanks for the support.
“Go and sin no more.”
And this is the whole point. Isn’t it? The scriptural injunction is to condemn the sin not the sinner. By knowingly renting to gay couples is not one complicit in the celebration of a sin?
Wouldn’t the proper imperative be: “Yes, we’d rent to you on condition you don’t engage in gay sex” But the law will not allow for this imperative- it would be criminal discrimination.
Is it a sin to show kindness to sinners?
“These are federal laws already. Why the heck do they need
city laws?”
Which federal laws prohibit discrimination against gays in housing and employment? I’m not aware of any...
Is it a sin to show kindness to sinners?
Yes, if the “kindness” you speak of is to encourage the sin.
John 2:15
“So He made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; He scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.”
You wouldn’t call this an act of “kindness”, would you?
Precisely. God judges the attitude of your heart, your motives.
So if you rent to a gay couple to be kind, God won't condemn you.
If you rent to a gay couple merely to facilitate their having gay sex, then that is something else entirely.
The concept of “kindness” is not in and of itself a source of spiritual salvation where consent is extended to accommodate a sinful objective. Otherwise, even the murderer can bludgeon a victim and hand him a glass of water (as an act of kindness) before the victim dies.
All acts of kindness extended to those who admit to sorrow and repentance of the sin is spiritual. Giving a free ride to a stranded transient is no act of spiritual kindness if he plans to rape his girlfriend (sin) at the point of destination.
Even the Christ demanded this renunciation of sin and restoration to spiritual kindness. Luke 17: 11-19. Jesus told the lepers to go and show themselves to the priest.
Nowhere did I suggest that showing "kindness" wins spiritual salvation. To the contrary, Scripture states clearly that salvation is by grace, through faith alone.
And unless I am misunderstanding what you're saying, then you seem to be the one caught up in some kind of pharisaic, salvation-by-works concept.
To return to this renting-to-gays example; if renting to a sinner makes you complicit in his sin, then I surely hope you are not a landlord. If you are a landlord, then most certainly your rooms are vacant. For nobody is sinless, not even the redeemed.
If renting to a homosexual makes you complicit in his homosexuality, then renting to a thief makes you complicit in his theft, and renting to a liar makes you complicit in his lying, etc.
By your reasoning, a landlord could safely rent his room only to the One, Perfect Man who ever lived. But Jesus ain't shopping around for new digs today. He sits at the right hand of the Father Himself, in Paradise.
Or is the issue that you consider homosexuality to be a worse sin than other sins? I can tell you that God does not see it that way. The carnal man would say, Surely murder is a worse sin than lying. But the truth is, if you lived an otherwise *perfect* life, save only one tiny, little, white lie, you are as assured to go to Hell as Hitler with the blood of millions upon his hands.
Sin separates a man from God. One particular sin does not separate a man from God any more or any less than another sin.
You argue thus:
“If renting to a homosexual makes you complicit in his homosexuality, then renting to a thief makes you complicit in his theft, and renting to a liar makes you complicit in his lying, etc.”
Well, this is an inherently false syllogism. Renting to a thief does not make the landlord complicit in the theft, but if the landlord rents the house knowing that his house would be used by the unrepentant thief as a launching pad for a nearby heist the following morning, yes he is complicit. Indeed, in the secular word, this would be seen as a form of aiding and abetting the purported heist.
If knowingly renting to a father and daughter in an incestuous relationship to continue their incest is a sin (and also a crime) why should it be any different to those engaged in acts that are just as abominable to those in a homosexual relationship as do lesbians which is a sin (and was a crime in many states until a liberal supreme Court struck down such laws as unconstitutional) .
I don’t think appeals to “kindness” is of any help here either morally in the secular sense or spiritually in the biblical context.
What you say makes good sense. But then what of Jesus honoring the thieving, traitorous Zachias by dining in his home? Many people were as appalled by that as you might be by someone renting a room to a gay couple.
I would frame the threat to our society as being promiscuity. Homosexual and heterosexual promiscuity are both a threat to public health, to the up-bringing of children, and to people’s happiness and virtue. And since heterosexuals are much more common, it would make sense to spend more time, not less, on cleaning up heterosexual behavior.
Fidelity is one of the undervalued virtues of our time.
Perhaps I was a little to definitive in my response. Real estate law may vary by state, but real estate agents are forbidden from discriminating against gays in rental or property transactions under various laws. Could an individual renting or selling their home or property discriminate, perhaps in some states.
As to employment discrimination against gays, it appears this is handled at the state and local level, while federal government hiring has interpreted (or extrapolated)
that they can't discriminate against gays under the existing discrimination laws.
I don;t think He meant to honor the theft. Again, we get back to the central issue. Condemn the sin but not the repentant sinner. But to acquiesce and lend comfort to the unrepentant sinner who believes that his/her lifestyle is a celebration of rights and is virtuous is to turn Scripture on its head
Interesting. It may be that real estates are forbidden to discriminate by some sort of ethical or professional code, but I don’t know of any federal law to that effect.
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