Is Mormonism Christian? by Late Richard John Neuhaus

November 24, 2009

[ejonesie22]

So if I point out the truth that Buddhism is a dead end path, a path to eternal ruination I am being “judgmental”?

I guess I should lie so I won't offend one’s sensabilities. After all, all paths are equal since they demand equal respect in your world.

So much for “I am the way the truth and the life...

The Operahization of Christanity continues...

[allmendream]

“the founding stories and doctrines of Mormonism appear to the outsider as a bizarre phantasmagoria of fevered religious imagination not untouched by perverse genius.”

Well the author nailed by impression; other than the genius part.

Mark Twain was more accurate as well as funnier.

As to the question...

I would say an offshoot of Christianity. Christian-ish. You don't write a new book, hold it in the same or more reverence as the old books, and try to claim you are the exact same thing as before the book was written and followed. New revelation and scripture = new religion, in my estimation.

[Tennessee Nana]

Happy Thanksgiving, EJ...

:)

[Tennessee Nana]

“I am the way the truth and the life...
____________________________________________

and also...

“No man or woman comes to the Father except by ME” (Jesus Christ the Lord), John 14:6

[ansel12]

I finally got around to looking at your posting history, it seems that you are not interested in information and you do not post information, for you it is an endless posting of short little nothings that carry no meaning and lead nowhere and passes on no usable facts to the readers.

I see you jump on threads and do a form of hijacking with little passive-aggressive, digs and annoyances and a heck of a lot of repetition of meaningless, irrelevant chant like slogans, all in all of little use to anyone seeking to learn something here.

[Buck W.]

Spoken like a true loser. Here’s an idea: why not form a coherent thought and present it clearly in English? When challenged, support your point or concede like an adult.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Melian]

All paths are not equal. All people are equal, however, and worthy of respect.

I think the Catholic Church has the fullest and most complete understanding of the faith Christ wants from us. That doesn’t give me the right to tell people I am positive they are going to Hell.

Only God can know the depths of a person’s soul, faith, and spiritual abilities. Only God can decide who goes to Heaven. As I have stated over and over on this thread, I believe the New Testament teaches us that God places great value on the way we live out our lives and treat our fellow man. I believe He takes our actions toward our fellow man into account when He sits in judgment of us.

I offer the parable of the Good Samaritan as proof for two reasons: first, because it illustrates that the Pharisee, who lived the Law to the letter but ignored the dignity of his fellow man, was not pleasing to Christ; second, because it showed that the misguided Samaritan who believed wrongly, but showed charity toward his fellow man, was more pleasing to God.

All paths are not equal. Christians have a tremendous responsibility once they have heard the word of Christ. In my opinion, a good, kind Buddhist or Mormon who lives his faith well and treats his neighbor kindly is at least as pleasing to God as a Pharisee-type Christian who is unkind, prideful, and strident. Neither is living the faith as Christ asked us to.

It is our responsibility as Christians to evangelize well. As I have said on this thread several times, I don’t think anger, bullying, calling people names, or being strident or condescending is a successful way to evangelize. Nor is it what Christ seems to be asking of us when we study Scripture. He asks that our lives be a witness.

I hope I have clarified my position. It is not being judgmental to say you disagree with someone’s views and show them why in a way that allows them to keep their dignity. It is being judgmental to say to anyone, “I know you’re going to Hell.” No one knows who goes to Hell, for sure. Christ alone is our judge. I believe faith and love for others can influence our ultimate salvation.

[Melian]

I will be happy to tell where I think people are wrong, since you asked:

Matthew 22 is my source. After studying that chapter, I have concluded:

The King (God) was enraged because the invited guests (the Jews of Christ’s time, the Christians of today) had mistreated His lowly servants. This is yet another example in Scripture in which God is telling us that the treatment of our fellow man is very important.

The King then noticed one of the invited guests (the Jews back then, the Christians now) was not dressed properly for the celebration (the guest’s ACTIONS were inappropriate) and he threw him into darkness. The guest was at the party, but his understanding of what was expected of him was inappropriate. The King is hardest of all on that invited guest who did not attend the party in the way the King required. Lots of food for thought there for prideful or backsliding Christians.

In Matt 22 we also see the Pharisees confused and confounded because Christ does not “regard another person’s status” when He deals with him. In other words, Christ treated people well whether they were sinners, misguided in their beliefs, tax collectors, or prostitutes. The “faithful” Pharisees were confused by this. Indeed, we see that the parable Christ told lets them know they are on the wrong track as far as their teaching and living of the New Law goes. We see his disdain for the invited guests who mistreat His servants.

Christ tells them they are mislead because they don’t know the power of God to do all things. God can even judge each man as an individual. It’s not black and white.

As far as the teachings of Mormonism go, Matt 22 tells us that “At the resurrection, they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like angels in heaven.” I don’t believe there is marriage in Heaven. Our hearts are so full of God there that there is no room to love anyone else in that way. None of us will need spousal love or commitment in Heaven because each of us will be completely consumed with our love of God. This is an example of one area I believe Mormon teachings are misguided.

I hope I have answered your question adequately, Elsie. As you can see from my interpretation of Matt 22, I believe strident and prideful Christians who belittle people in the name of evangelization are not doing God’s will. I believe it will go harder with them on judgment day than those who were simply uninformed or misguided. I believe they will be held into account for the souls their actions actually turned away from the Truth.

And I believe that God will take the way we treat others, no matter who they are or what they believe, into account when He judges us.

[Grunthor]

“However, if Romney wins the nomination, will you vote for him?”

Yes, yes I will.

[Grunthor]

Your words are true. My response is predictable; I will vote for Sarah in the Primary if she runs and I will vote and work for almost anyone* that might get the Republican nomination.

*I will never vote nor work for John McCain or anyone that looks to him for leadership.

[Tennessee Nana]

All people are equal, however, and worthy of respect.
________________________________________________

You ever tried to convince God of that ???

Ya see, God doesnt agree with you...

[Buck W.]

That’s the only answer a true conservative can give. Whether one supports Romney or not (and I don’t), if he wins the nomination the only strategically sound course of action is to vote for him. Staying home or voting third party will be a vote for Obama. Conservatives actually benefited from this effect in 2000—without Nader in the race, we would have inaugurated President Gore in 2001.

Any conservative who refuses to vote for the GOP nominee in 2012, whomever that may be, is not a conservative at all, but a showboater who is more concerned with perceptions and social standing than with defeating BHO.

[Buck W.]

That’s the only answer a true conservative can give. Whether one supports Romney or not (and I don’t), if he wins the nomination the only strategically sound course of action is to vote for him. Staying home or voting third party will be a vote for Obama. Conservatives actually benefited from this effect in 2000—without Nader in the race, we would have inaugurated President Gore in 2001.

Any conservative who refuses to vote for the GOP nominee in 2012, whomever that may be, is not a conservative at all, but a showboater who is more concerned with perceptions and social standing than with defeating BHO.

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

Bucky, you are soooo right. BHO must be defeated. Period. A vote against i.e. BHO, is better than a vote only for our ideal candidate.

That said, the Mass Rino is not likely to be the 2012 candidate, but I can think of other possibilities that I do not like any better. Just vote the evil, ignorant usurper out!

[ejonesie22]

I notice how you failed to mention the fact that Grunthor made it clear he would not support John McCain if by some chance he was the nominee again.

Would a no vote for McCain be a the same as a No vote for Romney or any other GOPer in 2012? Why not point that out, why not call Grunthor on that as you have numerous others on many other threads when they say they won't support Romney.

Typical Romney/GOP hack boilerplate.

The reason we even have this conversation is because people like you as well as the RNC (perhaps you are working with them who knows) have your own “litmus” test, one the expects Conservatives to roll simply because you put up a candidate. It is the conceit that gives you and other Republicans the gall to put up people like Scozzafava in NY 23 and expect everyone to salivate like Pavlov's dog because there is an “R” after their name.

We saw how well that worked didn't we.

That path, the one the RNC has been on for over a decade is the only LOSER around here.

Here is an idea for you as well as the rest of the Republicans out there. A vote is a personal and precious commodity, the one thing we own out right that gives us a say as to what future we may have. Instead of expecting or demanding the conservative vote try EARNING IT. If you are indeed a “true conservative” and not just another in a line of RNC/Whatever RINO hacks that seem to pop up here like weeds, fight FOR conservative ideas, argue AGAINST the weak sister wannbes while we are 2 years out.

The time to surrender is not now, the time to “make do”, accept the inevitable, the time to compromise is many months from now, in the final days in October before the election. That is when conservatives will have to look deep and decide how much they are will to compromise once again.

Even then the only vote FOR Obama is an actual lever pull next to his name. The failure to win the votes of those who would otherwise vote republican is the failure of the RNC only, a failure on their part to respect and value the vote of the people whose support they should have EARNED not EXPECTED.

Of course we can avoid all of that by actually nominating a conservative. Radical idea ain't it.

Or is that scary, is that not part of the plan for you and yours?

I will assume you will meet my expectations with some wonderful quip, some “loser” comment, some charge that I am not towing the party line.

Well the last one is true, and I do that with pride...

However many of us have heard it before and will hear it again. we know from whence it comes and why so mundane and predicable comments and retorts are made. Nothing new under the sun on that.

Standing on principle has a price, fortunately there are still many of us willing to pay it...

[Buck W.]

Spoken like a true Hope & Change groupie!

[ejonesie22]

Well at least you did not dissapoint in the worthless retort catagory.

You must do the modern GOP or whatever agenda you serve proud...

[Buck W.]

The advancement of conservatism is my only agenda. However, I am not so proud as to be blind to the only meaningful choice that a conservative can make in a potential Romney/Obama race. You would do well to put down the RINO gun and envision what four more years of a BHO administration will deliver to you and your family. That’s exactly what a third party protest vote will bring about.

[ejonesie22]

Do you actually read the posts you comment on?

If your agenda was truly Conservative, you would not already be willing to surrender and would be working like the majority of us here to do our best to ensure a RINO (or CINO) such as Romney or McCain or even Huckabee doesn't even become an issue.

The fact that you are clearly points to another agenda be it Romney or otherwise (and yes I and many others have seen many a Romneybot say the don't support him, honesty has not been a Romneybot strong point.)

Whatever it is, save the threats, because while I find them entertaining, like I said in the post you either did not read or did not comprehend, I as well as many others, have seen them before from slicker and more subtle hacks than you and it has had the exact opposite effect vs. the one you intend. Indeed it was that same attitude as well as the antics of his sycophants that lost Mitt my possible support back during the last election after Thompson dropped.

If you really believe the rhetoric you spew, try proving it, try supporting it and try earning the support of those whose vote you seek.

Otherwise you are simply fun entertainment to me, nothing more.

[Buck W.]

I have said nothing about a preference for Romney for president. In fact, I have explicitly stated that he is not my choice. Support your candidate with passion in the primaries. I will. And it’s not Mitt.

You, however, are a CINO. You would rather beat your chest and blurt out gutteral nonsense like “Me no vote for RINO! Me conservative!”. My, what friends such behavior must deliver to you!

You have no credibility among real conservatives. IF Romney is the nominee and IF you vote third party or stay home, then YOU are the problem. You will have shown yourself to be a leftist enabler of the socialist takeover of the United States.

Wake up.