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Solution to killer superbug found in Norway (MRSA)
Associated Press ^ | Dec 30, 2009 | MARTHA MENDOZA and MARGIE MASON

Posted on 12/30/2009 3:43:21 PM PST by decimon

OSLO, Norway – Aker University Hospital is a dingy place to heal. The floors are streaked and scratched. A light layer of dust coats the blood pressure monitors. A faint stench of urine and bleach wafts from a pile of soiled bedsheets dropped in a corner.

Look closer, however, at a microscopic level, and this place is pristine. There is no sign of a dangerous and contagious staph infection that killed tens of thousands of patients in the most sophisticated hospitals of Europe, North America and Asia this year, soaring virtually unchecked.

The reason: Norwegians stopped taking so many drugs.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: antibiotics; healthcare; infections; mrsa; norway; superbugs
• Norwegian doctors prescribe fewer antibiotics than any other country, so people do not have a chance to develop resistance to them.

People develop the resistance or bacteria do?

1 posted on 12/30/2009 3:43:22 PM PST by decimon
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To: neverdem; Pharmboy

Nor way ping.


2 posted on 12/30/2009 3:44:00 PM PST by decimon
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To: decimon

The pharmaceutical companies will quickly declare this heresy.


3 posted on 12/30/2009 3:49:03 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: decimon

I have twice seen MRSA cured by the use of AMD dressings on the site of the infection. AMD stands for anti microbial dressing, and they are highly effective.


4 posted on 12/30/2009 3:49:26 PM PST by chris37
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To: chris37

I wash my hands a little too much and sometimes the skin will get red and cracked, so I spray them down with Lysol and wear gloves soaked in lotion, by the next morning my hands are almost as good as new. I always use Lysol if I have ran out of neosporin.


5 posted on 12/30/2009 3:54:46 PM PST by GraceG
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To: decimon

So lack of life saving medicine is now seen as a positive? And we thought the DDT ban killed needlessly.


6 posted on 12/30/2009 3:54:53 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: chris37
I have twice seen MRSA cured by the use of AMD dressings on the site of the infection.

Do you know what is the curative agent in AMD dressings?

7 posted on 12/30/2009 3:55:07 PM PST by decimon
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To: decimon

Too MUCH medicine is being prescribed (that is the old profit motive, again). Vinegar, saline water and alcohol are perfectly good substitutes for control of most of the pathogens we encounter, and antibiotics should only be brought in when common practice of hygiene and sanitation have failed to stem the infection.

The human body has had, for eons, an almost uncanny ability to fight off practically every pathogen encountered. In the normal state of things, only a few of the bugs out there are pathogenic, and they are kept largely in check by making the environment not conducive to their continued expansion of numbers, like control of pH, or mineral content of the aqueous solution, or temperature, or simple scrubbing off at reasonably frequent intervals.


8 posted on 12/30/2009 3:55:56 PM PST by alloysteel (....the Kennedys can be regarded as dysfunctional. Even in death.)
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To: driftdiver
So lack of life saving medicine is now seen as a positive?

They're speaking of overuse and misuse. Even in this forum I've seen MDs complain that patients demand antibiotics when not needed and will change physicians to get them.

9 posted on 12/30/2009 4:00:53 PM PST by decimon
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To: GraceG

Remember Phiso-hex (sp)liquid soap? It used to be used all over the place, I remember seeing it in many doctor offices and surgical prep stations. No longer on the market. Plus,
I seem to recall all that vigorous scrubbing could cause micoabrasions and be subject to infection. I don’t use Purel or those other alcohol based purifiers. Good old soap and water.


10 posted on 12/30/2009 4:01:57 PM PST by SueRae
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To: decimon

MRSA is eliminated by Manuka Honey...


11 posted on 12/30/2009 4:04:03 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: decimon

The box of Kendall AMD dressing indicates that each dressing contains 0.2% Ployhexmethylene Biguanide. No other agent is indicated.


12 posted on 12/30/2009 4:16:52 PM PST by chris37
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

No it is not. Trust me on that.

The person that I know who had MRSA had two consecutive infections. The first was smaller, and manuka honey seemed to affect it positively. The second infection was quite a bit larger, and manuka honey had zero effect. Only the Kendall AMD bandages affected it positively and quickly.


13 posted on 12/30/2009 4:20:26 PM PST by chris37
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To: decimon

Mrsa sucks.


14 posted on 12/30/2009 4:20:39 PM PST by goseminoles
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To: SueRae

Hexachlorophene used to be available in bar soap as well before it got banned as a possible carcinogen. Phisoderm just didn’t cut it like Phisohex. I still see Phisohex at the hospitals.


15 posted on 12/30/2009 4:21:27 PM PST by printhead
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To: chris37

My two bouts of mrsa never involved “sites”. They were abscesses in the epidural space of the spine. Although the decolonization protocol is bathing with Hiciclens, putting some ointment up the nose, and gargling periodex. Too little to late.


16 posted on 12/30/2009 4:24:27 PM PST by goseminoles
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To: chris37
The box of Kendall AMD dressing indicates that each dressing contains 0.2% Ployhexmethylene Biguanide.

Thanks. That's a few syllables beyond my pay grade but maybe not someone else.

17 posted on 12/30/2009 4:29:30 PM PST by decimon
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To: goseminoles

Yes I have heard of internal incidents of MRSA, such as inside the lungs...

This person I am referring had three separate MRSA infections that I know of. Aside from the two that I described, another identical infection occurred about a year earlier. It was topical, and it was diagnosed as MRSA. It was also sent away to a lab to be verified as required by state law.


18 posted on 12/30/2009 4:30:55 PM PST by chris37
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To: printhead; All

Hibiclens topical wash kills pretty much anything. AKA Chlorhexidine Gluconate solution 4%, it’s available OTC.


19 posted on 12/30/2009 4:36:45 PM PST by Third Person (Happy New Year!)
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To: decimon

“They’re speaking of overuse and misuse. “

Understand, however notice in the recent weeks the ‘studies’ which show modern medicine as being unnecessary. Everything from pap smears, mammograms, and now life saving antibiotics.

Hospitals are a key component to the transmission of many infections.


20 posted on 12/30/2009 4:37:57 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: chris37

In my personal opinion, I believe that mrsa is due to excessive antibiotic prescriptions and weakened immune systems. In my case was excessive consumption of adult beverages. Hopefully the Zyvox worked this time.9000 bucks for 6 weeks of oral antibiotics.


21 posted on 12/30/2009 4:38:12 PM PST by goseminoles
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To: decimon


But Norway’s public health system fought back with an aggressive program
that made it the most infection-free country in the world.
A key part of that program was cutting back severely on the use
of antibiotics.

Having survived what sure seemed to be a MRSA-style attack on my
left leg in 1994...I hope some (hopefully more than a couple)
groups investigate this.
(I survived three repeat flare-ups...by telling my doctors at Kaiser-Permanente
that “I had it before, I’ve got it again, now give me the antibiotics
I MUST have or my successors will sue Kaiser and YOU personally!!!)

I keep my mind open, but my initial thought is that this may have
been a Dick Lamb-style “Let’s leave Grandma on the porch next winter”
type of program.
(Yeah, a Democratic governor from Colorado that saw denial of healthcare
and euthanasia as a win-win: less money expended on healthcare and
getting Grandma out of the way before her time was up.)


22 posted on 12/30/2009 4:43:56 PM PST by VOA
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To: GraceG

Google Microsan. They make a hand sanitizer that is a lotion. They make other sanitizers too. Very effective stuff.


23 posted on 12/30/2009 4:46:41 PM PST by csmusaret (Pelosi and Reid have controlled Congress for three years. This is their recession.)
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To: decimon

What are the death rates from infection...I no longertrust overseas stats when I discover that some countries do not count a baby as a live birth until they are seven days old.


24 posted on 12/30/2009 4:47:23 PM PST by Chickensoup (We have the government we deserve.)
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To: Chickensoup

Death rates vary by type of infection and the person. I think my mrsa infection accounts for 3 in 10,000 er admissions and can be deadly if not properly dealt with in 48 hours.


25 posted on 12/30/2009 4:53:30 PM PST by goseminoles
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To: goseminoles

9,000$?! You have got to be kidding! (Although I know you are not).

I believe that a slightly weakened immune system was a factor with the person I have been describing. Not so weak that it allowed the infection to run out of control, but not strong enough to knock it out on its own in a timely manner.


26 posted on 12/30/2009 4:54:19 PM PST by chris37
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To: chris37; SueRae

Squalene Synthase Inhibitors. It doesnt kill MRSA, but it does keep it from defending itself from the body’s own immune response.

ScienceDaily (Feb. 16, 2008) —

“Researchers at the University of Illinois helped lead a collaborative effort to uncover a completely new treatment strategy for serious Staphylococcus aureus (”Staph”) infections. The research, published Feb. 14 online in Science, comes at a time when strains of antibiotic-resistant Staph (known as MRSA, for methicillin-resistant S. aureus) are spreading in epidemic proportions in hospital and community settings.”
......
“A golden-colored pigment called a carotenoid gives the S. aureus bacterium its edge. “Aureus” is Latin for “golden.” The carotenoid acts as an antioxidant for the bacterium, allowing it to evade attack by the body’s immune cells. By crippling production of the carotenoid, the compound strips Staph of one of its key defenses.”
....
“I thought there was a good chance that squalene synthase inhibitors developed early on as cholesterol lowering agents might also work on this other pathway,” he said. “Current cholesterol-lowering drugs like statins work in a completely different way and would be ineffective.”

More at:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080214144409.htm


27 posted on 12/30/2009 4:54:58 PM PST by Pete from Shawnee Mission
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To: VOA

That you survived is what’s important.

I don’t think they had much of a clue in 1994.


28 posted on 12/30/2009 4:59:58 PM PST by decimon
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To: chris37

“The person that I know who had MRSA had two consecutive infections. The first was smaller, and manuka honey seemed to affect it positively. The second infection was quite a bit larger, and manuka honey had zero effect. Only the Kendall AMD bandages affected it positively and quickly.

That is like saying vitamin C has no effect. How much? What kind? How often?

Manuka honey is rated. What kind was it? Was the UMF greater than 16? How often was it applied?

best,
ampu


29 posted on 12/31/2009 6:59:04 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: chris37

http://www.mrsablog.com/tags/manuka-honey/


30 posted on 12/31/2009 7:00:40 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: chris37

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/09/090908-mrsa-staph-manuka-honey.html


31 posted on 12/31/2009 7:01:40 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

My wife has used Manuka Honey with good effect on some MRSA infections. Cumin and Tea-Tree oil help, too.


32 posted on 12/31/2009 7:05:56 AM PST by Little Ray (Madame President sounds really good to me...)
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To: SueRae
Remember Phiso-hex (sp)liquid soap?

I had a staph on my face and had to bathe with it and needed a Rx to get it... about 30 years ago.

33 posted on 12/31/2009 7:20:39 AM PST by lonestar (Obama and his czars have turned Bush's "mess" into a national crisis!)
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To: VOA

I 23 YO young man in my town died this past summer from an internal infection around his knee. I think it wasn’t diagnosed until after he died—only 2 days after he first went to the dr.


34 posted on 12/31/2009 7:35:05 AM PST by lonestar (Obama and his czars have turned Bush's "mess" into a national crisis!)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Well, I will have to ask her about the honey specifically. The person who had these infections was my mom, and she is very into alternative medicine. If there is anything she can do to solve a situation without going to a doctor, she will take that action. I know that she researched the honey on the web before making that purchase, so I am certain she got the proper kind.

As I stated, the honey did seem to effect the smaller infection (which was actually the second of three infections). However, after it went away, within about a week a third infection started, and it was nasty, the worst of the three, no doubt. The honey, as well as all other methods she was trying, seemed ineffective. She consulted with a medical rep she knows from her business that told her she was taking the exact wrong steps -as far as dressings, ointments, peroxide and such, the honey was not mentioned as far as I know.

The medical rep explained to her that the key was to keep the infection under AMD dressing, and from what I saw, that rep was spot on. My mom is still here, no doctor was needed, and that last infection was quite alarming.


35 posted on 12/31/2009 11:05:53 AM PST by chris37
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To: decimon

“People develop the resistance or bacteria do?”

My quick answer to your question is “Yes”.

Bacteria develop resistance to antibiotics. Antibiotics adversely effect the immune systems of people. This combination leads to infections that no longer can be treated successfully.

It is possible that MRSA and other antibiotic resistant strains result by the bugs themselves become resistant to treatment, and then people who have weakened immune systems can more readily be infected with the resistant strains.

Norway’s approach by significantly reducing the use of antibiotics seems sound, based on the above assumptions.

There are non-antibiotic treatments for MRSA that have been successful. Minimal cost, maximized effectiveness. Not likely to be used in allopathic treatments because they cut into profits - drug companies, hospitals and doctors do not make money when people are no longer sick.

Kudos to the Norwegians.


36 posted on 12/31/2009 11:32:29 AM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a tea party descendant - steeped in the Constitutional legacy handed down by the Founders)
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To: chris37

I’m glad your mom came out on the positive side.
I’ve heard it is painful.

best,
ampu


37 posted on 12/31/2009 1:13:00 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: alloysteel

No, we were not able to fight off everything. There is a recent child mortality used to be 60% by age 18 and life expectancy was less than 45.


38 posted on 01/12/2010 4:35:52 PM PST by tbw2 (Freeper sci-fi - "Humanity's Edge" - on amazon.com)
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