Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Are Cameras the New Guns?
Gizmodo.com ^ | 6/2/2010 | Wendy McElroy

Posted on 06/03/2010 6:59:40 AM PDT by RoseyT

In response to a flood of Facebook and YouTube videos that depict police abuse, a new trend in law enforcement is gaining popularity. In at least three states, it is now illegal to record any on-duty police officer. Even if the encounter involves you and may be necessary to your defense, and even if the recording is on a public street where no expectation of privacy exists.

The legal justification for arresting the "shooter" rests on existing wiretapping or eavesdropping laws, with statutes against obstructing law enforcement sometimes cited. Illinois, Massachusetts, and Maryland are among the 12 states in which all parties must consent for a recording to be legal unless, as with TV news crews, it is obvious to all that recording is underway. Since the police do not consent, the camera-wielder can be arrested. Most all-party-consent states also include an exception for recording in public places where "no expectation of privacy exists" (Illinois does not) but in practice this exception is not being recognized.

(Story continued...)

(Excerpt) Read more at gizmodo.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: abuseofpower; allanimalsareequal; animalfarm; barney; barneyfife; bigbrother; biggestgangintown; cameras; constitution; cultureofcorruption; donutwatch; firstamendment; freespeech; gort; jackboots; lping; moreequalthanothers; nifongism; nwo; orwelliannightmare; police; policestate; surveillance; thugwithabadge; uniongoons; video
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-57 next last
I don't know anything about the author of this piece so don't shoot the messenger!
1 posted on 06/03/2010 6:59:40 AM PDT by RoseyT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: RoseyT
Freedom of the press is a great concept -- but if everyone has a printing press (if everyone can create media) then the First Amendment starts to lose some luster for the political establishment.

Recording the actions of our public servants is almost a civic duty, in my opinion. What do they have to hide?

2 posted on 06/03/2010 7:03:37 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT
Of course in cases where recorders capture evidence of “police brutality” or “oppression” there will be no problem.These laws are meant to protect political hacks and their friends....not law abiding citizens.At least that's the case in Massachusetts.
3 posted on 06/03/2010 7:03:40 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

Yet the government can put up CCTVs EVERYWHERE to watch the citizen they consider to be “mindless sheep to the slaughter”. But if we want to record them, we don’t have the “right” to watch them....

What’s next, will the congress critters make investigating congress illegal?


4 posted on 06/03/2010 7:03:51 AM PDT by GraceG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gay State Conservative

” Of course in cases where recorders capture evidence of “police brutality” or “oppression” there will be no problem.These laws are meant to protect political hacks and their friends....not law abiding citizens.At least that’s the case in Massachusetts. “

This is why cameras in police cars are a good thing, they help show an officer’s side fo the story. But yeah this all reeks of political favortism.


5 posted on 06/03/2010 7:05:53 AM PDT by GraceG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

All three states are among the most screamingly liberal in the nation. Citizens, submit to the police state.


6 posted on 06/03/2010 7:07:03 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT
Most all-party-consent states also include an exception for recording in public places where "no expectation of privacy exists" (Illinois does not) but in practice this exception is not being recognized.

Obviously something that needs to be considered by the courts.Even the SCOTUS if necessary.Cockroach hack politicians and their "civil service" cronies fear "sunlight".

7 posted on 06/03/2010 7:07:27 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT
The argument Big Brother always uses in defense of his total-surveillance state is that the only reason you would object to being taped is because you have something to hide.

The police are objecting to being taped, therefore Big Brother is admitting they have something to hide.

8 posted on 06/03/2010 7:08:21 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law." -- Aristotle)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GraceG

I wonder how long it will be before someone contests a ticket they got because of a traffic camera. Using the logic of the law, “I didn’t consent to having my picture taken!”


9 posted on 06/03/2010 7:08:41 AM PDT by jimmango
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

I love www.thinkgeek.com

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/b550/

Basically a Spy Camera video watch.

They also have spy cams in pens, key fobs, and sunglasses.

Bring it on.


10 posted on 06/03/2010 7:08:44 AM PDT by GraceG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

Ha!
Video as you please.
Have someone else post it to YouTube.


11 posted on 06/03/2010 7:09:33 AM PDT by G Larry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GraceG
What’s next, will the congress critters make investigating congress illegal?

Too late. The Congressional Black Caucus is already trying to get the ethics panel's powers reduced because they are investigating its members.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

12 posted on 06/03/2010 7:12:32 AM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: GraceG
This is why cameras in police cars are a good thing, they help show an officer’s side fo the story.

If there is any doubt about your interactions with the police, you have to subpoena that recording and get it into your lawyers hands as quickly as possible so it isn't "accidentally" erased if it will show the police in a bad light. I would even say that if you plan on fighting a speeding ticket you need to work on getting that recording before the officer makes it back to the police station.

13 posted on 06/03/2010 7:15:39 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (I am so immune to satire that I ate three Irish children after reading Swift's "A Modest Proposal")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

I would say that the information our own eyes capture is our own inherent right and any camera that we are holding right now is an extension of that memory that we record in our brain, consider it an “external memory device”.

While wiretaqpping laws should prevent unauthorized, autonomous cameras and microphones planted on another person’s or organization’s property without their consent. They should not prevent a person from using an “external memory device” that works in the within arms reach of the user’s own eyes. We have the right to our own “memories” be they in the form of brain patterns recordd by our brains or the electronic information in a memory card from a camera we are holding. On someons’e private property they can refuse us entry if we have such a device, but on public land there should be restriction on this whatsoever because public land is owned by the state and the state has no right to restrict your memory, internal brain patterns or external memory device.


14 posted on 06/03/2010 7:16:50 AM PDT by GraceG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: GraceG

I must apologize for my lack of spelling to myself.


15 posted on 06/03/2010 7:17:35 AM PDT by GraceG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum

“The argument Big Brother always uses in defense of his total-surveillance state is that the only reason you would object to being taped is because you have something to hide.
The police are objecting to being taped, therefore Big Brother is admitting they have something to hide. “

State Animals are more equal than Citizen Animals.


16 posted on 06/03/2010 7:19:31 AM PDT by GraceG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: GraceG
This is why cameras in police cars are a good thing, they help show an officer’s side of the story.

I think such cameras are,in theory,a good idea.If used "correctly" they have the ability to protect the cops *and* the public...and suspects as well.But in a thoroughly corrupt like Massachusetts you can bet your bottom dollar that when such a video might reveal police misconduct/error there'd always seem to have been a camera malfunction during that incident.And to the best of my knowledge police in this state don't use dashboard cameras...although I'm not sure of that.

17 posted on 06/03/2010 7:20:04 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Gay State Conservative

“This is why cameras in police cars are a good thing, they help show an officer’s side of the story.
I think such cameras are,in theory,a good idea.If used “correctly” they have the ability to protect the cops *and* the public...and suspects as well.But in a thoroughly corrupt like Massachusetts you can bet your bottom dollar that when such a video might reveal police misconduct/error there’d always seem to have been a camera malfunction during that incident.And to the best of my knowledge police in this state don’t use dashboard cameras...although I’m not sure of that. “

You say the officer pulled you out of your car and beat you becasue you had a “Don’t tread on me” bumper sticker, and the officer was yelling about it while they were beating you up. That’s too bad.... The tape recorder in the car was busted that day, so sorry, Now for this charge of resisting arrest during that same arrest on the officer’s word, GUILTY, enjoy the book about to be thrown at you.

Of course if you cannot tape the police, I’ll bet any version of the “brownshirts” that may materialize int he future will get the same “privlidge”.


18 posted on 06/03/2010 7:24:43 AM PDT by GraceG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

Man....I am a police officer....and this is bulsh&#T. I only have nine more years...will be glad to get out of this work...seriously...seen too much go on that makes me uncomfortable...just keep doin whats right...pray for the best...sighs. Do have the concern that the videos can be reworked to make things look a certain way...this goes for both sides by the way. Welcome to Amerika


19 posted on 06/03/2010 7:24:58 AM PDT by bike800
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

Well now gee whiz, what’s all the fuss? After all EVERYBODY KNOWS that the police/bureaucrats/politicians/public union employees are the GOOD GUYS! It’s the “little people”...you know, the citizen-nobodies who need watched!!


20 posted on 06/03/2010 7:25:51 AM PDT by Oldpuppymax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

As I’ve always said, the police aren’t citizens since they aren’t subject to our nation’s laws.

Pathetic.


21 posted on 06/03/2010 7:26:00 AM PDT by Filo (Darwin was right!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT
"The legal justification for arresting the "shooter" rests on existing wiretapping or eavesdropping laws, with statutes against obstructing law enforcement sometimes cited."

Absurd. Illogical. Typical Statist protections (liberal / progressive control).

The NEA protects bad teachers through tenure and other means. Incompetent, redundant, or unethical government workers are next to impossible to fire. The UAW protects the lowest quality workers in their ranks versus enforcing a standard of excellence.

Protect your kingdom.

22 posted on 06/03/2010 7:26:39 AM PDT by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT
In at least three states, it is now illegal to record any on-duty police officer.

Completely unconstitutional.

23 posted on 06/03/2010 7:42:11 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (Throw the bums out in 2010.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT
Most all-party-consent states also include an exception for recording in public places where "no expectation of privacy exists" (Illinois does not) but in practice this exception is not being recognized.

So the public has "surrendered" their right to not be recorded but the police don't. No wonder they don't want cameras in the jails to catch them beating up those arrested.

It's good to be the king.

24 posted on 06/03/2010 7:44:31 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (Throw the bums out in 2010.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GraceG

Those cameras are “not working” or the tapes are “lost” sometimes when the tapes don’t back up the officers’ stories.


25 posted on 06/03/2010 7:45:28 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (Throw the bums out in 2010.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

“In at least three states, it is now illegal to record any on-duty police officer”

That’s a pretty stupid law. Nice way to alienate your constituents. It’s like passing a law that says you can’t give city councilmen funny looks. Except in that case, the law would encourage less beatings with heavy objects.


26 posted on 06/03/2010 7:54:18 AM PDT by Tublecane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT
I just bought a few of these key fob recorders off of ebay. Nine bucks. And that includes shipping.


27 posted on 06/03/2010 8:11:56 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (What's black and white and red all over? - OBAMA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

this law violates the exculpatory evidence rule and it flies in the face of laws which ALLOW police to record you if they arrest you how are holding you in custody, or just doing a simple terry stop.


28 posted on 06/03/2010 8:19:33 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT
*Sh!its a Brick* - It looks like I prophesied this line of reasoning here:
The fools think that this actually entitles them to some sort of defense when it’s obvious that Our mere accusation is proof enough of guilt for punishments; just look at our highly-successful legal team at the IRS.
29 posted on 06/03/2010 8:38:06 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OneWingedShark

Sure looks that way. I enjoyed your “Supreme Law” post. Very Screwtapish!


30 posted on 06/03/2010 9:12:03 AM PDT by RoseyT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

Thank you much.


31 posted on 06/03/2010 9:28:30 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

I couldn’t agree more. What part of “Public Servant” do they not understand?


32 posted on 06/03/2010 4:12:39 PM PDT by Dr. Marten
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

I think the age of citizen journalist is upon us ... Video is the new media and the tape will always tell the tale, unless it’s photo shopped.

Heck even our lame stream media could have found the tapes of the flotilla raid, if they had wanted to tell the truth.

I agree mostly with the author, the camera can be as powerful as the gun, just like the pen before it.


33 posted on 06/03/2010 4:14:22 PM PDT by Tarpon (Obama-Speak ... the fusion of sophistry and Newspeak. It's not a gift, it's just lies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: GraceG
What’s next, will the congress critters make investigating congress illegal?

No need, they alone investigate themselves.

34 posted on 06/03/2010 4:17:17 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; akatel; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Alexander Rubin; Allerious; ...



Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!
View past Libertarian pings here
35 posted on 06/03/2010 4:17:40 PM PDT by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

If two party consent is required, wouldn’t that prevent police dash cams from recording until the police officer got consent from the citizen being recorded?


36 posted on 06/03/2010 4:20:04 PM PDT by magellan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bike800; GraceG; dznutz

bike800, As GraceG said, (and I wholeheartedly agree) this is just an initial step in protecting the brownshirt police state to come.

I don’t think of the problem being as much what we now call “police” as the problem, so much as will inevitably be the brownshirts to come. I respect the good law enforcement officers, but I increasingly see the deck being stacked, so to speak.

Dznutz, I pinged you because I thought it’s important to bring in all perspectives, if you care to add. I appreciate anything you can add, but know you may be busy. This is only relevant to 3 states for now, but may increasingly involve us all.


37 posted on 06/03/2010 4:20:12 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: GraceG
I would say that the information our own eyes capture is our own inherent right

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the law, guilty or not.

38 posted on 06/03/2010 4:22:43 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: a fool in paradise
Completely unconstitutional.

Not until the Court says it is, probably not in our lifetime either.

39 posted on 06/03/2010 4:24:23 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT
Of course, if someone hoodlum attacked some innocent person, the police would hope somebody filmed the hoodlum without the hoodlum's consent.
40 posted on 06/03/2010 4:24:37 PM PDT by magellan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GraceG

Does that thing work?


41 posted on 06/03/2010 4:53:24 PM PDT by fanfan (Why did they bury Barry's past?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

So they (governments, businesses, basically anyone that can afford a camera) can photograph us, private citizens, because we’re in public and have no expectation, but we can’t photograph them even though they’re public employees.


42 posted on 06/03/2010 4:57:59 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bike800

We *need* you. We *need* good police officers who understand the law and freedom.


43 posted on 06/03/2010 5:07:54 PM PDT by cizinec
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: itsahoot

“Not until the Court says it is, probably not in our lifetime either.”

With the rapidity of our degradation, I’m not sure it will have time to make it to the court.


44 posted on 06/03/2010 5:10:51 PM PDT by cizinec
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Tublecane

“Nice way to alienate your constituents.”

Jury nullification is a good route to take. When in doubt vote for the citizen, especially in police brutality cases.


45 posted on 06/03/2010 5:11:30 PM PDT by A Strict Constructionist (We are an Oligarchy now and worse if we fail. TeaParty On...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

“...Illinois, Massachusetts, and Maryland...”

Cutting edge experts in Soviet governance. Lefties love police abuse as long as they are in power to control who gets abused.


46 posted on 06/03/2010 5:12:51 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: G Larry
Or stream the video and let anybody else record and post as they wish.
47 posted on 06/03/2010 7:07:55 PM PDT by Sgt_Schultze (A half-truth is a complete lie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT

Same should be true of recording devices used by a officers.

Cuts both ways.


48 posted on 06/03/2010 7:08:45 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

What are you looking for? LOL /s


49 posted on 06/03/2010 7:09:13 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: RoseyT
Illinois, Massachusetts and Maryland...home states of Obama, Dick Durbin, Barnie Frank, Teddy Kennedy, Elijah Cummings and Steny Hoyer. What's the surprise?
50 posted on 06/03/2010 7:09:36 PM PDT by JrsyJack (a healthy dose of buckshot will probably get you the last word in any argument.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-57 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson