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Psychologist Says Antidepressants Are Just Fancy Placebos
DISCOVER ^ | 06.09.2010 | Carlin Flora

Posted on 06/09/2010 9:01:24 PM PDT by neverdem

Irving Kirsh aims to "explode the myth" of Prozac and its ilk, arguing that there's little evidence that they actually work for most patients.

Depression is a chemical imbalance, most people think. Researchers, drug manufacturers, and even the Food and Drug Administration assert that antidepressants work by “normalizing” levels of brain neurotransmitters—chemical messengers such as serotonin. And yet hard science supporting this idea is quite poor, says Irving Kirsch, professor of psychology at the University of Hull in the U.K. An expert on the placebo effect, Kirsch has unearthed evidence that antidepressants do not correct brain chemistry gone awry. More important, the drugs are not much more effective against depression than are sugar pills, he says. To support these controversial claims, Kirsch conducted a meta-analysis, digging up data from unpublished clinical trials. When all the evidence is weighed together, Prozac, Paxil, and other such popular pills seem to be at best weakly effective against depression—an argument Kirsch presses in his new book, The Emperor’s New Drugs. Some other research backs up his claims. A study published this winter in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that psychoactive drugs are no better than placebos for people suffering from mild to moderate depression.

Where did the idea of depression as a chemical imbalance come from?
 The initial two drugs, imipramine and iproniazid, that were discovered and promoted as effective antidepressants both seemed to increase the amount of serotonin in the brain. It was discovered afterward that one of them seemed to block the reabsorption of serotonin, leaving it to linger longer at cell receptors, and the other blocked the destruction of the serotonin neurotransmitters in the synapses in the brain.

Then there was an observational finding that a drug called reserpine produced depression. Reserpine decreased the available serotonin, so...

(Excerpt) Read more at discovermagazine.com ...


TOPICS: Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: antidepressants; health; medicine; placebos; ssris

1 posted on 06/09/2010 9:01:24 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Must be a Scientologist.


2 posted on 06/09/2010 9:07:38 PM PDT by Mr. Blond
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To: neverdem

Depression has been proven, at least by the docs and people associated with Watercure.com, to be dehydration. A symptom of dehydration. You cure depression by hydrating and staying hydrated. Why do you think the ads that say “depression hurts” show muscle soreness, sore throats, cramps, etc. Dehydration. ‘nuff said.


3 posted on 06/09/2010 9:07:42 PM PDT by BlueStateBlues (Blue State business, Red State heart. . . . .Palin 2012----can't come soon enough!)
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To: neverdem
Psychology vs Psychiatry. Talk it out vs Big Pharma. Big bucks in big pharma, so right now it is on top in the scientific debate.

Another player is entering this debate and is represented by holistic practitioners. The theory is that trauma (wide definition) impacts the body at the cellular level, and is not limited to just the brain. Psychology and Psychiatry deal with the brain, but the holistic practitioner deals with the entire body. If in fact trauma impacts the entire body, then depression is not limited to the brain. Unfortunately, this field of science is in its infancy and is not given any credibility by medical science, which likes to compartmentalize things.

4 posted on 06/09/2010 9:09:33 PM PDT by mlocher (USA is a sovereign nation)
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To: neverdem
Oh really - ask my family what happens when mommy has tried to get off of her "happy pills". . .

Wild Mood Swings

Homicidal (thoughts)

Suicidal (thoughts)

and that's just the beginning...

5 posted on 06/09/2010 9:16:13 PM PDT by ninergold3 (Danny Tarkanian for US Senate (NV) - www.tark2010.org)
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To: BlueStateBlues
WaterCure | The Miracles of Water to Cure Diseases

I'll post the link.....

6 posted on 06/09/2010 9:16:36 PM PDT by Buddy B (MSgt Retired-USAF - Year: 1972)
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To: BlueStateBlues

“Depression has been proven,...... to be dehydration.”

Nah, that’s all quackery. The doc that’s used as an “authority”, has some serious credibility issues.

Don’t take my word for it though. Read about it here.

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/batman.html

‘nuff said indeed!


7 posted on 06/09/2010 9:23:51 PM PDT by Habibi ("It is vain to do with more what can be done with less." - William of Occam)
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To: neverdem
A study published this winter in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that psychoactive drugs are no better than placebos for people suffering from mild to moderate depression.

How about severe depression?
I can see how a placebo would work on mild depression, but severe depression would be the real test of whether they worked or not.

8 posted on 06/09/2010 9:24:43 PM PDT by FreedomOfExpression
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To: FreedomOfExpression

..whether antidepressants worked or not.


9 posted on 06/09/2010 9:30:45 PM PDT by FreedomOfExpression
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To: neverdem

I’ve always perceived depression as simply the body’s natural response to prolonged stress—a defensive mechanism. Obviously there’s a “chemical” reason for it, but I think even in the nineteenth century it was known that you could relieve it with any kind of bodily shock—and that’s really not surprising.


10 posted on 06/09/2010 9:31:26 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: neverdem

I had a bout of depression years ago, that I felt helpless against, but I fought it and beat it by changing my lifestyle, diet, and gave myself a kick in the pants and told myself to stop feeling sorry for myself. Wasn’t easy, but the more you do, the easier it gets - the problems that caused my depression were under my control all along, I just had to realize that, and do something about it.

I never once thought, hey, i can just take a pill!. Why?

Because, I’d seen personally what these pills do to people. I experienced it briefly when I took Wellbutrin to try and quit smoking. These pills numb you out, grind off the peaks and valleys of normal emotion - you aren’t mad, you aren’t happy, or sad, you just...are. Zoned out. Numb. I took them for a week, and then threw them out. They scared me.

I watched other people, who needed serious therapy for things like being sexually abused as a child, get put on the pills, and never have any work done on their issues. Then, they go off the pills, and it’s a complete trainwreck, jobs are lost, relationships in tatters or abandoned, in one case ending up committed to the county psych ward. That was fun.

Now, i see most people I know on them. It’s scary. Not that they’re on them, but fearful of what will happen when they come off them, and all those issues have been simmering all along, underneath.

So, now I have a rule, and I do not break it: I will not, under any circumstances, get emotionally involved with anyone on these drugs. If involved with someone, and they start, it IS a dealbreaker.

I know there are some that NEED these pills, but I bet 90% or more of the people on them don’t need them, and are being prescribed them by their doctors to simply warehouse them in the pill zone, where they don’t have to deal with their icky problems, and can guaranteed decades of billing for doing nothing more than writing out a script, and adjust the meds once in a while.

Depression sucks, but my layman hunch is most of it is dietary in nature, combined with a lack of exercise, and a culture that encourages people to wallow in their misery and take on the victim title.


11 posted on 06/09/2010 9:32:04 PM PDT by ByDesign
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To: neverdem
There's an ad for one of these drugs, where the narrator is speaking over a cartoon supposedly of brain activity. He says something like "we think that perhaps our drug maybe sort of, in a way, does this thingy in your brain, or not"

My thought was that they were admitting they had no clue what their drug did, or how it did what they didn't know it was doing.

12 posted on 06/09/2010 9:35:02 PM PDT by Minn (Here is a realistic picture of the prophet: ----> ([: {()
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To: mlocher
Psychology vs Psychiatry. Talk it out vs Big Pharma. Big bucks in big pharma, so right now it is on top in the scientific debate.

The clinical psych folks want you to keep coming in for therapy at what, a hundred bucks a visit, once to three times a week for years.

Pharmaceutical interventions are a helluva lot cheaper. Most people I have know who have tried both prefer the medication.

13 posted on 06/09/2010 9:37:09 PM PDT by freespirited (There are a lot of bad Republicans but there are no good Democrats.--Ann Coulter)
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To: neverdem

But I quit that! I’ve quit ALL drugs. Well... let me say one thing: I twisted my ankle this morning, and I was in quite a bit of pain... so I went to the doctor, and I asked him to give me some pain pills. And he didn’t want to do it, but I talked him into it. So he gave me some pills — and I shouldn’t have done this, but I took some about an hour before the show tonight, and right now... I am high... as a KITE! I mean, it is unbelievable! And I would NEVER say this to you people, but, in this case: if you EVER get a chance, to take these drugs... DO IT! They’re called... Placebos!

-Steve Martin


14 posted on 06/09/2010 9:37:29 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: neverdem; All
I once knew a girl from a family that was consciencious about nutrition. Didn't seem to matter much cause she came down with bipolarity and went to the psych ward. I don't think her medications that allowed her to live a somewhat normal life are mere placebo either.
15 posted on 06/09/2010 9:46:12 PM PDT by fso301
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To: ByDesign
What I observed from several people I know who were on anti depressants was that they had impressive memory lapses. This lead me to believe that the pills didn't cure the depression, they just made them forgot the depression episodes.
16 posted on 06/09/2010 9:54:56 PM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: neverdem
A study published this winter in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that psychoactive drugs are no better than placebos for people suffering from mild to moderate depression.

Admits that antidepressants ARE effective for severe depression. I have seen people who were suicidal completely turn around after receiving the correct medication.

17 posted on 06/09/2010 10:10:19 PM PDT by iowamark
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To: ByDesign
I am currently being treated for severe depression by a Naturopath and it mainly involves life style and diet change w/o taking any drugs. The treatment is changing my life and I just wish more people would try this approach before screwing their life up with Prozac and the like.
18 posted on 06/09/2010 10:15:37 PM PDT by Cadhack
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To: BlueStateBlues
Depression has been proven, at least by the docs and people associated with Watercure.com, to be dehydration

I'm sold on the idea. Think I'll throw away my grad school training in Neuropsychology and go with the watercure!

19 posted on 06/09/2010 10:23:58 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: ByDesign
I agree with you to an extent. The fact that you were able to recognize and correct the cause of your depression is an excellent thing. For others, their problems may be very difficult for them to pinpoint, if they can even recognize them on their own. Additionally, the solutions to those problems may not be as simple to fix as a life style change, diet and a pep talk. Complicating matters further are the exorbitant costs of psychotherapy to help them recognize and work through the problems that causes their pain.

It's no wonder people take the pills, instead. They are cheaper and more convenient. :(

20 posted on 06/09/2010 10:24:40 PM PDT by TNdandelion
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To: freespirited
I've tried both. The drugs were easier but never really fixed anything except uncomfortable symptoms of depression while creating MORE uncomfortable side effects. lol

I started imipramine (Tofranil) when I was 6 when my parents should have been on the meds, instead. I was finally able to be medication free at 30 after spending several thousands of dollars on psychotherapy. Both of my parents are on meds. They are still crazy, but at least I can recognize that THEY are crazy. lol

21 posted on 06/09/2010 10:32:23 PM PDT by TNdandelion
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To: iowamark

That was my impression as well. I had two different colleagues battle depression. I watched them seem to wilt further and further as the days passed - slipping deeper into depression. I was at times afraid they would commit suicide. Drugs stabilized them while they worked out their emotional problems.
Consumer Reports did a fairly interesting study in 1995. Here’s an excerpt of the abstract: “Abstract. Consumer Reports (1995, November) published an article which concluded that patients benefited very substantially from psychotherapy, that long-term treatment did considerably better than short-term treatment, and that psychotherapy alone did not differ in effectiveness from medication plus psychotherapy. Furthermore, no specific modality of psychotherapy did better than any other for any disorder; psychologists, psychiatrists, and social workers did not differ in their effectiveness as treaters; and all did better than marriage counselors and long-term family doctoring. Patients whose length of therapy or choice of therapist was limited by insurance or managed care did worse. “
http://horan.asu.edu/cpy702readings/seligman/seligman.html
Excerpt written by Martin Seligman


22 posted on 06/09/2010 11:01:54 PM PDT by ransomnote
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Depression has about as many causes as it does brand names of medications for it. Some of it can be from traumatic experiences in which Cognitive Behavioral Therapy can work. Some can be actual chemical imbalance and that means the doctor has to determine which one. Physical illness is another cause and likely one of the most overlooked as well as undetected neurological conditions.

Antidepressants can be a blessing to some and as bad as LSD to others. I've seen first hand the good and the harm they can do to different people. I doubt one in ten doctors prescribing them would recognize Serotonin Syndrome for example. Many Shrinks as well are quite clueless about it.

If you take SSRI's and get a headache and/or upset stomach tell your doctor. If he brushes it ff find another or another till you find one with enough smarts to listen.

If a person has sensory processing related issues such as Inner Ear disorders be very careful with these drugs.

I don't doubt for a minute people can get severely depressed to the point of needing an appropriate medication. This could be true no matter the origin but the origin of the depression should be by all practical attempts to be determined. The origin needs to be determined so proper treatment can be obtained.

Doctors need to take the potential for adverse reactions seriously. It really gets me how many doctors come unglued at the mention of such medications as Xanax, Valium, Librium, or other related benzodiazepine class medicines. The same doctors will write a prescription for say Zoloft or Paxil and not give any thought to it. I have never seen anyone taking Valium, Xanax, or Other Benzo, hallucinate from it. On the contrary benzodiazepine are the protocol antidote medication for stopping a Serotonin Migration in progress. I have however seen persons given SSRI's and other antidepressants do just that.

I am among those who must never take any antidepressant due to sensory processing damage. It can affect me like LSD. Sad to say many persons taken into emergency rooms with advanced Serotonin Syndrome will only be given more of it as the treatment. They will label the patient psychotic and treat with medications that only make matters worse. No not even an unconscious patients makes some doctors think hey maybe there is something bad wrong here.

I'm not on an anti-antidepressant rant but doctors need to realize the somewhat rare but very real dangers of these drugs. They can be far, far, more dangerous than any benzodiazepine tranquilizer such as Valium, Xanax, or Librium. Patients would be very surprised to know just how little many shrinks know about the medications they prescribe.

23 posted on 06/09/2010 11:02:03 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: cva66snipe

I completely agree that these drugs can be very, very dangerous. We do not want to mess with the serotonin levels. I was on one for three months, and if I was even 1 hour late to take the pill, I would have the worst nightmares that night, nightmares that I have never experienced before or since, coming from my own private personal terror imagination. Since I was a new mom, that meant seeing my child tortured and killed before my eyes, etc. Weaning off of these drugs is HELL. It can be like weaning off of an opiate. You need to be under a doctor’s care.


24 posted on 06/09/2010 11:11:26 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: neverdem

Anti-depressants are called “soul suckers” on the street because of their massively inhibiting effect on a person’s conscience and empathy.

These effects also suppress anger, which is why if someone stops taking them suddenly, without at least a six-month tapering-off, they can (and often do) explode into rages, many times murderous.

So people who take them can destroy others mentally, emotionally or physically and simply not care, while people who come off of them wrong can destroy people mentally, emotionally or physically out of uncontrollable rage.

Yes, they help *some* depression. But they are given out like candy to millions of people at every age group, and as a result have massively negative, chronically sociopathic psychological effects on vast swaths of the population, from children to youths to adults.

And MOST liberals are on them - WAY more than 50%.


25 posted on 06/09/2010 11:13:35 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: ninergold3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13olfeD026g


26 posted on 06/09/2010 11:31:30 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: ninergold3
Oh really - ask my family what happens when mommy has tried to get off of her "happy pills". . .

Proof postive!

Besides, depression can be a chemical imbalance in the brain. No amount of counseling, placebos, blah, blah, blah is going to help that. ONLY DRUGS!

27 posted on 06/09/2010 11:35:00 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: Yaelle
My wife was on Zoloft and Trazadone and went into full blown advanced Serotonin Syndrome. Six doctors missed it. What likely saved her life was she was also taking Xanax. She went unconscious in the ER and they still thought it was pyschosis when clinical symptoms said otherwise.

Had it not been for this forum and some discussions I had a long time ago with some Freepers as well as prayer for answers when this happened she could have died. She was taken off all medications but Ativan and was OK within 24 hours. In walks a Shrink and doubles the Zoloft. Within one our of taking that pill she was in it again. They still didn't think. I went home and got on line and on search with Zoloft +Trazadone +Adverse reaction had thewers in seconds.

My wife has severe neurlogical and sensory damage. She is a quadriplegic. The SSRI's were giver her to help overcome a bad reaction to a medication a dentist had given her that put her in a COMA. She has taken benzodiazepine {Xanax} for 25 years now a low dose at .5mg three times a day.

I am disgnosed as having General Anxiety Disorder of non phobic origin. My sensory processing system is basicaly shot. They tried me on SSRI's about 16 years ago when this hit me. First was Paxil which blocked my bladder. the others gave me bad headaches, increased anxiety, irratibility, and headaches. My actual disorder or combination thereof has no given name.

A doctor took me off of them and on Xanax at .5mg four times a day and I can somewhat function. I also have seizure activity from the senory issues. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy does not work for this either. I've had this, Depression, PTSD, and OCB all at the same time with one triggering and feeding on the other. The Depression and OCB which was merely a compensation issue and was the first to leave. The PTSD took several years with a therapist. I had gone through a lot of bad things in a few years time.

The G.A.D. {name given for disability reasons} is a neurological issue caused in part by Inner Ear issues, hearing loss and severe Tinitus issues, vision issues including single eye functional, all combined which I've had since early childhood and was mistaken for ADD ADHD. Nope Ritalin sure don't help neither LOL. For some SSRI's are the only thing that works. For some like my wife and I benzodiazepines like Xanax are the only thing that work and all the text book writings about long term use and it not working didn't happen with us. For me it's the only thing that does work.

28 posted on 06/09/2010 11:36:15 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: cva66snipe

I am so grateful that you and your wife have medications available that help. I think these meds are of critical importance but I also see them overprescribed to people who are in bad marriages, life sucking jobs etc.
For those who have physical/chemical needs - sometimes there seems to be no chemical fix. I recall meeting an 19 year who had dark circles under his eyes - the result of 8 years of deep depression. He watched all his friends go away to school and he tried to go to but it was too hard with his depression. He had tried all the drugs, nothing helped. His pain was so palpable, I just wanted to hug him - as if THAT ‘cure’ had not been tried by his own mom!


29 posted on 06/09/2010 11:53:26 PM PDT by ransomnote
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To: Cadhack

Good for you. I’m glad to hear you’ve found a healthy solution that can be a way of life, not a “prescription for change” via pills. I’ve tried both (pills & diet change) and have to say that although the pills seemed to help, especially initially, really it’s about being present and learning the tools of dealing with what’s going on (or with whatever went on in the past). Even just cutting out the processed food adds an amazing clarity to my thinking and stability to my emotions, not to mention an almost total absence of PMS (true story!). THAT is a side-effect I love.


30 posted on 06/09/2010 11:59:13 PM PDT by MonicaG (God bless our military! Praying and thanking God for you every day. Thank you!)
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To: BlueStateBlues
You cure depression by hydrating and staying hydrated. Why do you think the ads that say “depression hurts” show muscle soreness, sore throats, cramps, etc. Dehydration. ‘nuff said.

Baloney. The most clinically depressed person I've ever known also drinks more water than anyone I've ever known.

Your pat diagnosis and cure are hokum.

31 posted on 06/10/2010 12:03:21 AM PDT by Chunga (Any IDIOT who says Obama would be better for the country than McCain is a disgrace - Mark Levin)
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To: ransomnote
It is sad to see that happen to people. A good LCSW {therapist} can't cure but they can in quite a few cases help a person come to terms with things. That is as much as important as the medicine. People think of Psychiatrist as having a couch you sit on and talk. Most of them see a patient 15-20 minutes every three months. Psychologist and LCSW's are the ones who usually have the one on one interaction with the person.

I have one very dear to me who has battled clinical depression the 25 years I've known her. Many reasons some which will never go away in this life. A very talented LCSW has made living with it a lot more bearable though. Another person close to me takes Luvox. It works fine. Yet another one nothing will help. Depression can sometimes be overcome and sometimes despite every-ones best efforts and intentions can not. The pain is very bit as real to that person as cancer is to another. What works for one may be impossible or make matters worse for another.

I consider myself fortunate to only have what I have. That might be hard for some to understand but it was better than the several things I thought I had and for good reasons :>} It won't kill me. Sometimes make me think I'm dieing but it won't kill me. What scared me to death 16 years ago is now just an major inconvience I know will pass.

32 posted on 06/10/2010 12:12:36 AM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Yaelle

“We do not want to mess with the serotonin levels.”

Oh, yes “we” do! I was on serotonin reuptake inhibitors for seven years. Though I’m a guy (it makes a difference), I wasn’t taking them for depression (arachnoiditis from a spinal cord tumor). Since I didn’t want to mess with long-term opiates to fight the pain, this class of drug was what I chose. I can’t tell you about psychological effects, since I really didn’t notice any changes in that regard. The pain was far more controllable though. In my case, no depression meant no psychiatric complications. I actually slept better, but that was probably due to the lower pain levels.

I would still be on them, but they finally put a spinal cord implant/stimulator into my spinal canal. Presto! No more need for the drugs. I might have cried after the surgery, but I assure you that they were tears of joy.

You’re right about coming off them. I did it within a month, and it was......unpleasant. I was really cranky. Most of the time I just stayed clear of the rest of the family, but it was a titrated transition. All things considered the irritability was quite minor, but I did notice it. Now it’s all behind me (literally). Those pills were a great benefit to me, since long term treatment with opiates is a dead end street anyway, with lots of unpleasant side effects. SRI’s were a godsend for me before the stimulator became available. In all the time I was taking them I never noticed a mood/psychiatric problem.

Oddly enough, you’re supposed to have an MMPI test before implantation. I declined, telling my pain specialist that I really didn’t want to find out if I was crazy. Apparently, he didn’t want to find out either, and gave me a pass. I have my suspicions about my own sanity, but as long as I don’t know it for sure it makes life easier. ;-)


33 posted on 06/10/2010 12:20:40 AM PDT by Habibi ("It is vain to do with more what can be done with less." - William of Occam)
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To: Chunga; BlueStateBlues

One dont equal the other. He could be drinking massive amounts of water yet still be Dehydrated.

Some of the folks subjected to massive amounts of agent orange had this symptom.


34 posted on 06/10/2010 1:35:26 AM PDT by valkyry1
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To: neverdem

The usual quack psychologist.

Lazy social science PhD pretending to be a “doctor.”


35 posted on 06/10/2010 1:40:05 AM PDT by FormerACLUmember ("Subtlety is not going to win this fight": NJ Governor Chris Christie)
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To: cva66snipe
"Doctors need to take the potential for adverse reactions seriously."

So true. Some years ago I was prescribed one of the SSRI's. I tolerated it reasonably well, but went off of it when I got tired of feeling like a bit of a robot. Both ups and downs were removed, and I didn't like the trade-off.

The second time I was prescribed the same drug, I didn't worry about side effects, since I'd had it before. What I didn't think about was that in the intervening years I'd been prescribed Imitrex for my migraines. One stress-filled day I took an Imitrex tablet for my headache and ended up in the ER with a cardiac arrhythmia. The ER docs checked me out, sent me home with some Xanax, and said to go see a cardiologist if it happened again. They never discussed possible medication interactions.

When I came out of my Xanax fog, I started doing some online research and learned that the combination of the SSRI with the Imitrex might well have caused a problem, since both affected serotonin levels. Add in a stressful incident, and I was in trouble. What scares me is that none of these medical professionals picked up on it.

I tossed the SSRI's, worked harder at lifestyle, diet and stress issues, added some Vitamin D3 to the mix, and am doing much better. The cardiac incident was over a year ago, and hasn't been repeated. What I've learned over and over in life is that we need to be our own advocates in this complicated world.

36 posted on 06/10/2010 4:13:59 AM PDT by Think free or die
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To: ByDesign

A very interesting post, but I differ on the Wellbutrin matter- it generally takes three weeks of taking it for the brain to experience the effects- however, it is not unusual to feel “weird” after the first day or two of ingesting it.

For most people, depression is due to difficult circumstances in their life (IMHO) and not so much due to a chemical imbalance.

I also have reservations about trusting the same mental health “giants” who decided to remove Homosexuality from the DSM and thereby declare it is “normal” behavior.


37 posted on 06/10/2010 4:20:17 AM PDT by Canedawg (I'm not digging this tyranny thing.)
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To: neverdem

Hi, my name’s Jeff. I’m addicted to placebos.

I’d quit. But it wouldn’t make a difference.


38 posted on 06/10/2010 7:31:55 AM PDT by goseminoles
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To: BlueStateBlues
How does the waterecure encourage people to get and stay hydrated? Is it a step by step progression of is it like drink X amount of H20 per day?

I think there may be something to this, but, I would have poo-pooed the idea 6 months ago. I am in nursing school where one is very stressed out and tired all the time. I would get blinding fatigue headaches that no analgesic would touch One day it came to me that maybe the fatigue headaches were linked to dehydration in some oblique way. On the surface at least, I should have been well hydrated. I was drinking the recommend daily amount of fluids so it seemed like an unlikely cause for the pain.

I began to really pay attention and to drinking lots of H20, especially when I was doing clinicals when I had been awake 48 hrs straight . The headaches totally went away. I am not getting any more sleep because of the demand of the nursing program, but at least I don’t have headaches all of the time like I did. Now I wonder if dehydration may have other signs and symptoms that are not usually recognized as such

39 posted on 06/10/2010 7:49:22 AM PDT by foolscap
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To: neverdem

They might just be fancy placebos - but they still muck with brain chemistry... and that’s NOT good.


40 posted on 06/10/2010 8:16:46 AM PDT by GOPJ (http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php?area=dam&lang=eng)
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To: foolscap
I've also found that my headaches are sometimes related to hydration. My sons definitely find it to be true. Before they'll take a painkiller, they'll drink water.

My brother also advised me to drink more water when I was having back pain. He reminded me that disks contain a lot of water, and that when we are dehydrated, they are less able to cushion our spines. I've found it somewhat helpful.

41 posted on 06/10/2010 12:17:57 PM PDT by Think free or die
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To: Think free or die
You might want to read this Serotonin syndrome It is a Mayo Clinic link.

The Xanax could have very well saved your life. The fog was more likely from Serotonin Syndrome unless you were given a very high dosage of Xanax like about 2 mg and even then? Xanax doesn't work quite like Valium. It's a lot smoother. 2MG except for usage in cases like this is not a good dose and can cause more problems long term than it helps. The same 2Mg spread out in four dosages in 24 hours can do wonders though :>} Been there and taking it 16 years in that manner. :>}

You got an ER doctor who did the right thing for you and likely saved your life with the Xanax. It is the class of counter acting drug for treating Serotonin Syndrome. But the doctor should have told you point blank what happened.

Serotonin Syndrome can cause cardiac arrhythmia it is one of many of the warning signs which include hallucinations. I've seen it at it's worse. It nearly killed my wife. Her hallucination included her thinking she was Tess {Della Reese} on Touched by an Angel. And my wife is as white as white can be LOL.

Sad to say doctors ignored the obvious cause and assumed it was accute psychosis and upped the Zoloft. They also wanted her sent to a mental institution. They even argued with me after I presented them with an article on it their own Pharmacology Professor wrote. Doctors are for the most part ignorant of the potential dangers of antidepressants. The patient and patients family need to be warned of this possible serious and potentially possible adverse reaction.

42 posted on 06/10/2010 12:41:26 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Think free or die
From the link I posted in post 42

In some cases, serotonin syndrome can be caused by taking just one drug that increases serotonin levels, but it occurs most often when you combine certain medications. For example, serotonin syndrome may occur if you take an antidepressant along with a migraine medication.

BTW OTC Cold medications like Nyquil mixed with SSRI's can do the same thing.

43 posted on 06/10/2010 12:54:54 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: ByDesign

Excellent and glad to hear about your success. I believe that we can fight our own depression and that it is symptomatic of chronic stress. Much of it brought about by our own thoughts/reactions.


44 posted on 06/15/2010 5:30:32 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: iowamark

True and ditto.


45 posted on 06/15/2010 5:31:45 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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