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Opinions Needed-Trying to advise a friend (Vanity)
6/14/10 | hoagy62

Posted on 06/14/2010 1:19:25 PM PDT by hoagy62

I need some advice for a friend of mine from my church. Since none of you know where I go or who he is, I can protect his anonymity. He doesn't know I'm doing this.

He seemed a bit upset at church this weekend, so I asked what happened. Here's what he told me: Last Tuesday, he was on Facebook. He noticed that he'd received a private message from someone he'd 'friended' about a month earlier. This woman was a high-school acquaintance, one of several he's added to his friend list in anticipation of his 30-year high school reunion coming this summer.

Anyway, this message said "What did you do to my little sister at your dad's lake cabin?" He thought about it...the sister in question was about 12 at the time and he was 16 or 17. Her mom and his dad worked together for the city and his dad invited them out to the cabin for a day during his vacation. My friend asked back "What are you talking about?" According to this woman, her sister just recently revealed to her that she remembers this guy (my friend) trying to get him to touch his genitals. He told me that he does remember that she was AT the lake cabin, but he has no recollection of this incident. He does remember that they swam together and that there was a lot of splashing, but NOTHING like what this woman is accusing him of.

The conversation went from messages to chat (she initiated it) and they spent the next half-hour or so going back and forth...him denying any knowledge of the incident, and her calling him a liar and a pervert an saying that if she'd have found this out back in high school, he'd have been dead. During the course of the conversation, she'd said that the sister did tell her mother about the incident, and the mother told her to 'let it go', whether because she didn't think anything of it, or for other reasons, he doesn't know. WHY this was brought up NOW, my friend has no idea. The conversation ended with him saying that IF anything happened...and if it did it was totally unintentional...that he was sorry for her BUT that he didn't do anything, and with her saying that he's lucky that she has love and respect for his dad. There have been no further contacts.

Some things to know about my friend-he's happily married, has kids, and had been a Christian for over 20 years. He said that he brought his wife in as soon as the accusation was made, and she sat there with him and saw the conversation. She got on her laptop and looked up the law in our state. Apparently, the statute of limitations expired YEARS ago for that kind of incident, so no charges could be filed. He swears to me that there was NO rape or intercourse.

What he's afraid of is a lawsuit where this woman would try to extract money from him. I'm thinking that for something that happened more than 30 years ago and with no physical evidence save for her word against his...that's not something a court would even consider. His wife believes him that nothing happened. He also went to one of our pastors and relayed the same story. The pastor said that something he learned in psychology (a degree he's working for right now) if a person replays an incident over and over in their mind the way they THOUGHT it went, even if that was NOT what happened, they convince themselves that THEIR perception of what happened is the truth.

My question for you, my fellow FReepers is: Should this guy worry? Should he lawyer up in preparation for a possible lawsuit? (According to him, the woman gave no indication that any reparations or damages were being considered...for what it's worth.)

My friend is an upstanding guy and he's really upset that this accusation was made.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Religion
KEYWORDS: incident; legal; longagopast; memory
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What do you think?
1 posted on 06/14/2010 1:19:25 PM PDT by hoagy62
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To: hoagy62
Stay away from crazy bitches.
2 posted on 06/14/2010 1:21:13 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law." -- Aristotle)
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To: hoagy62

I think its meaningless if its nothing more than an accusation. If he thinks police will get involved he should retain an attorney and be prepared.


3 posted on 06/14/2010 1:22:00 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: hoagy62
What he's afraid of is a lawsuit where this woman would try to extract money from him.

Wouldn't sweat it. That's not a threat of a lawsuit. Statute of limitations would apply. Sounds more like a threat of extortion.

4 posted on 06/14/2010 1:23:03 PM PDT by gundog (Outrage is anger taken by surprise. Nothing these people do surprises me anymore.)
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To: hoagy62

Go to Dailykos. They probably care about this crap.


5 posted on 06/14/2010 1:23:03 PM PDT by HospiceNurse
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To: cripplecreek

If the statute of limitations is long-expired, WHY would the police get involved on something that happened 30+ years ago? If a murder was involved, yes...but this?


6 posted on 06/14/2010 1:24:21 PM PDT by hoagy62 (.)
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To: hoagy62
"The pastor said that something he learned in psychology (a degree he's working for right now) if a person replays an incident over and over in their mind the way they THOUGHT it went, even if that was NOT what happened, they convince themselves that THEIR perception of what happened is the truth."

This is very true.

I think if your friend has had a clean life and has had no criminal or civil complaints against him, it be rather hard to prove something like that. I hope the sister doesn't keep haggling him about it.

7 posted on 06/14/2010 1:25:00 PM PDT by RabidBartender (The hardest part about tending bar is figuring out who's drunk and who's just stupid.)
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To: hoagy62

Never chat or answer private messages on Facebook.


8 posted on 06/14/2010 1:25:28 PM PDT by Dallas59 (President Robert Gibbs 2009-2013)
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To: hoagy62
It is virtually impossible to prove a negative. Anyone can accuse anyone of just about anything. I know that it is easier said than done, but I would tell your friend to forget it. At least in court, you have to have proof, and no court is going to listen to this case.
9 posted on 06/14/2010 1:25:37 PM PDT by Nosterrex
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

ditto....


10 posted on 06/14/2010 1:26:08 PM PDT by tatsinfla
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To: hoagy62

Statute of limitations. He said, she said. Nothing to look at here. If a law suit were to be brought it would have to be by the injured party (not the sister). I doubt there’s anything to worry about here.


11 posted on 06/14/2010 1:27:27 PM PDT by bcsco (First there was Slick Willie. Now there's "Oil Slick" Barry...)
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To: hoagy62

He should pray for forgiveness for what he might have done. Having been molested by more than one uncle during my very young years, I can tell you that I never said a word to my parents (because I was told not to), and I never forgot what happened—but not the details. I have in the past few years (I’m now 57) told a couple of my sisters what happened. This woman may have gone through similar trauma and has only recently shared the experience with her sister. Maybe he was inebriated when he did it. I’m not accusing him, but this is very believable to me. I wouldn’t hire an attorney. She probably doesn’t want the publicity and nothing can be proved at this point.


12 posted on 06/14/2010 1:28:01 PM PDT by DallasDeb (USAFA '06 Mom)
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To: HospiceNurse

Aren’t you just a ray of compassion...


13 posted on 06/14/2010 1:28:05 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: hoagy62

There’s a reason why there’s a statute of limitations.

Memories are notoriously dicey; sometimes they are even coerced.

The actual offense the woman said your friend committed also has me confused. The woman says he TRIED to touch her sister inappropriately? So this is a second-hand story about an incident where there was not even any actual contact?

Sounds like this woman is a bit of a nut if this is on her mind 30 years later. I’d advise your friend to skip the reunion, though. This woman might be the type to make an over-the-top scene of some kind.


14 posted on 06/14/2010 1:28:24 PM PDT by JennysCool (My hypocrisy goes only so far)
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To: hoagy62
What do you think?

I think you, I mean your friend, just needs to ignore her.
15 posted on 06/14/2010 1:28:39 PM PDT by WackySam (To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead.)
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To: hoagy62; Admin Moderator

What do you think?

________________________

I think you need to ask the admin mods to send this thread into the cornfield.

Zot City.


16 posted on 06/14/2010 1:28:53 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (PALIN/MCCAIN IN 2012 - barf alert? sarc tag? -- can't decide)
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To: hoagy62

Sounds like extortion.....but it IS another reason why I will never have a social networking account. Not if you ever want a decent job in your future.


17 posted on 06/14/2010 1:29:14 PM PDT by lovecraft (Specialization is for insects.)
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To: RabidBartender

I’ve known him for quite a while. Very clean life. He says that going to the class reunion is now out of the question, since he’s fairly sure the older sister will be there.


18 posted on 06/14/2010 1:30:08 PM PDT by hoagy62 (.)
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To: hoagy62

Do not communicate with the woman - at all. Block her from face page and chat. She can be sued for extortion or slander so she should watch her nasty self. Sounds like demented fishing to me.


19 posted on 06/14/2010 1:30:10 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: hoagy62
I'd find a high caliber lawyer, BEFORE going to that high school reunion --- sounds like a sicko set of sisters, from what I've heard of the emails, what an outrageous thing to do.

Also, how do you know that that crazee weird broad isn't going to find THIS discussion and taunt him some more with it????

20 posted on 06/14/2010 1:30:36 PM PDT by hennie pennie
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Can’t go thru life being bullied to do something or not do something that the bully wants. If he wants to go to the Reunion, then go..the other woman MAY NOT EVEN SHOW UP!!!
Her friends may be telling her not to go.

In Alabama the younger sister would have to bring charges, No one else can do it.. As far as a Law Suit? On what grounds? He didn’t do anything to the lady calling. And is that a crime? A 15-16 year old coming on to a 12 year old?

People shouldn’t be afraid or pushed around for something they didn’t do. What if next the lady calls back and says she was molested by him? Maybe the lady was drinking...or Bi-Polar.

Go to the Reunion...he may look guilty by not going.


21 posted on 06/14/2010 1:30:43 PM PDT by Ecliptic
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To: hoagy62
Thirty years after the fact... who knows what was going on in the mind of the woman. But, if the statute of limitations have elasped, I wouldn't worry to much.

I'm just sorry that your friend had to be dragged into that. Defriend the woman and not engage her any more.

22 posted on 06/14/2010 1:31:34 PM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: hoagy62
All your emails, chats & IMs are being logged & saved.

Stop communicating with the woman.

23 posted on 06/14/2010 1:31:56 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: buccaneer81

I am leaving for a long while. The crazy religionists and vanity posts make me wish I was a liberal.


24 posted on 06/14/2010 1:33:36 PM PDT by HospiceNurse
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To: SaraJohnson; sodpoodle; fatnotlazy
>>>> "She can be sued for extortion or slander so she should watch her nasty self. Sounds like demented fishing to me." <<<<

I think he should find a good lawyer immediately. This is simply beyond the pale, I wonder if the woman has a history of this type of online harrassment and extortion/slander attempts???

25 posted on 06/14/2010 1:33:59 PM PDT by hennie pennie
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To: HospiceNurse
I sure wouldn't want you nursing my hospice...
26 posted on 06/14/2010 1:34:34 PM PDT by Russ (Repeal the 17th amendment)
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To: HospiceNurse
I am leaving for a long while. The crazy religionists and vanity posts make me wish I was a liberal.

No loss to us...

27 posted on 06/14/2010 1:34:44 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: TexasCajun

That was something I already told my friend.

I only brought this up because I hurt for my friend. I also knew that FR has better legal minds than mine. Heck...we know a little something about EVERYTHING. That’s why I asked.

To ALL: I’ll relay this to my friend. Thank you.


28 posted on 06/14/2010 1:35:45 PM PDT by hoagy62 (.)
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To: cripplecreek
I tend to agree with you, I would talk to a lawyer to be sure of state law, then go on with life.

Worst case scenario: Two under age kids, ones talks dirty, but nothing happened.

29 posted on 06/14/2010 1:36:05 PM PDT by rightly_dividing
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To: hoagy62

I’d stop communicating with the “lady.” You can’t prove the negative.

She is obviously unwilling to believe that he is even possibly innocent. She has judged and hung him based on one accusation. Alleged accusation. The guy doesn’t even know that the accusation is real.

I am sure it is very upsetting but I don’t see how it could be proven. Supposedly, he was 16 when he “did” it, anyway, so was a minor himself at the time.


30 posted on 06/14/2010 1:36:06 PM PDT by Persevero (Replace Howard Dean with Alvin Greene!)
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To: hoagy62

Never talk to the police.
Or anybody elsem, for that matter.
Absolutely nothing he said/typed could have helped him, and probably only hurt him.

Complete dumbass move.


31 posted on 06/14/2010 1:37:14 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: hoagy62

“He says that going to the class reunion is now out of the question, since he’s fairly sure the older sister will be there.”

Easy for me to say, but I’d go. I wouldn’t act guilty. If she starts slandering, he’s not there to defend himself.


32 posted on 06/14/2010 1:37:46 PM PDT by Persevero (Replace Howard Dean with Alvin Greene!)
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To: hennie pennie

I agree. Get a lawyer.


33 posted on 06/14/2010 1:39:15 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: HospiceNurse

“I am leaving for a long while. The crazy religionists and vanity posts make me wish I was a liberal.”

What does this have to do with “crazy religionists?” Because the guy is described as a Christian?

As for vanity posts, if you don’t like them, you can avoid clicking on them.


34 posted on 06/14/2010 1:39:27 PM PDT by Persevero (Replace Howard Dean with Alvin Greene!)
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To: hoagy62

Eschew Facebook.


35 posted on 06/14/2010 1:40:16 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: HospiceNurse

That’s funny...I thought you WERE a liberal :)


36 posted on 06/14/2010 1:40:40 PM PDT by Hoosier Catholic Momma (Arkansas resident of Hoosier upbringing--Yankee with a southern twang)
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To: hoagy62
Number of interesting things:

He has specific incident but not general denial. “He swears there was no rape or intercourse,” but that does not cover touching.

Why did she chat for a time, then accuse?

Could be a number of things, from nothing, to touching, and we will never know.

Does he need a lawyer? Absolutely. What course the lawyer and he decide to take I have no idea, but he does need to see a lawyer to get those answers. Do not depend on a layman's read on SOL matters. There might be other charges and some events can “toll” or suspend the running of the SOL.

37 posted on 06/14/2010 1:41:59 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Prezdet Obama is what you get when you let the O.J. jury select a president !)
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To: hoagy62

WHy anyone in their right mind is involved with facebook or myspace, etc, is beyond me.


38 posted on 06/14/2010 1:42:21 PM PDT by Professional
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To: hoagy62

Doesn’t sound like there’s any evidence to convict the accused on, so I wouldn’t worry about a criminal or civil charge. If the accused is entirely innocent but is concerned about the opinions of other people that the accuser might tell, I would see if this young woman has a church pastor that you might involve. See if she can make the accusation in front of G_d so to speak, or if she wishes to recant.


39 posted on 06/14/2010 1:43:09 PM PDT by throwback ( The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid)
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To: DallasDeb

For what he MIGHT have done?


40 posted on 06/14/2010 1:43:55 PM PDT by DManA
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To: HospiceNurse
I am leaving for a long while. The crazy religionists and vanity posts make me wish I was a liberal.

Or you could simply stay off those threads and stick to reading and posting to subjects you like. It's like TV -- I can't stand MSNBC and CNN, so I don't watch them.

41 posted on 06/14/2010 1:45:42 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: hoagy62

Call A Lawyer... Now!


42 posted on 06/14/2010 1:46:41 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Prezdet Obama is what you get when you let the O.J. jury select a president !)
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To: DManA

He said that he couldn’t remember anything like that happening.


43 posted on 06/14/2010 1:47:05 PM PDT by DallasDeb (USAFA '06 Mom)
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To: MindBender26

He says he received the friend request FROM HER, and assumed it was because of the upcoming reunion. He also says there were NO messages from her to him before that night.

I’m also beginning to think this is an extortion attempt.


44 posted on 06/14/2010 1:47:34 PM PDT by hoagy62 (.)
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To: hoagy62
The original claim is most likely of no consequence.

But it does sound like the woman's sister (doing the postings) is a threat.

Best advice is to make no further contact, comment, or acknowledgment. If she approaches him again, he should be friendly, and behave as if he does not know what she is talking about. Do not engage or react. Exit when asap.

45 posted on 06/14/2010 1:49:08 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: hoagy62

The 30 year old memory of a 12 year old girl of a non-crime with no evidence, lots of denials, no witnesses, no police reports and a supportive wife?

Apparently the only thing your friend is concerned about is his own poor memory and some seeds of doubt that have been planted.

Because there is no possibility of successful legal action against him on any front.

My advice:
1) Explain that he is a very decent guy who would be concerned when anyone appears mad at him. There are a lot of evil people in the world seeking to exploit people like your friend.

2) Stop talking to this person on Facebook, or get off of Facebook all together.


46 posted on 06/14/2010 1:51:09 PM PDT by kidd
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To: hoagy62
According to this woman, her sister just recently revealed to her that she remembers this guy (my friend) trying to get him to touch his genitals.

I think the above sentence does not involve the younger sister at all.

It's no crime (yet) to touch one's genitals.

47 posted on 06/14/2010 1:51:28 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (You can only get smarter by engaging a smarter opponent.)
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To: hoagy62

“The conversation ended with him saying that IF anything happened...and if it did it was totally unintentional...that he was sorry for her BUT,,,,”

Review the video, “never talk to the police” for an easy tutorial on how that exchange alone will be twisted into a “confession”. He should never speak a word to that woman again. EVER, in person, on the phone, and not on facebook.

Whether or not the woman is psycho or mistaken. She sounds like shes on a jihad,, she’s beyond reason.


48 posted on 06/14/2010 1:52:46 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: hoagy62

This sounds like the cyber version of being accused of rape. Simply ask “you are making a serious charge, do you have any evidence; as I consider this slander”. Reverse the aggression, bullies don’t respect weakness, and this woman sounds like a seriously disturbed bully.

Who goes on Facebook, asks to be a friend with a person they suspect molested their sister? Does that sound like a rational person?

So, chose to drop that person from your account, I believe the term is “Ignore”; then if you get a message - take the aggressive approach. Accusations of Slander, extortion and harassment are applicable in this situation, IMHO.

If he did nothing, he’s being forced into a sitution that is literally impossible to prove. How does one prove their innocence? Simply stated, you can not do this.

What you can do, is state that nothing happened .... PERIOD. Accusations to the contrary are harassment, slander and can easily lead to extortion. Tell her that she is not to communicat with him at any time henceforth, and that such an attempt will be met with a restraining order, and legal action against her.

If nothing else, it will make him feel better; knowing that he is not helpless in this matter. He does have alternatives to simply ignoring her, and feeling shamed into admitting something that did not happen.


49 posted on 06/14/2010 1:53:34 PM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“Stay away from crazy bitches.”

What you said!! Amen,,,


50 posted on 06/14/2010 1:53:54 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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