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Photos 'show Himalayan glaciers receding'
AFP on Yahoo ^ | 7/16/10 | Sebastian Smith

Posted on 07/16/2010 2:11:05 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

NEW YORK (AFP) – When British climbing legend George Mallory took his iconic 1921 photo of Mount Everest's north face, the mighty, river-shaped glacier snaking under his feet seemed eternal.

Decades of pollution and global warming later, modern mountaineer David Breashears has reshot the picture at the same spot -- and proved an alarming reality.

Instead of the powerful, white, S-shaped sweep of ice witnessed by Mallory before he died on his conquest of Everest, the Main Rongbuk Glacier today is shrunken and withered.

The frozen waves of ice pinnacles -- many .. the size of office buildings -- are still there. But they are far fewer, lower and confined to a narrow line.

Comparing precisely matched photographs, Breashears determined that the Rongbuk had dropped some 320 feet (97 meters) in depth.

"The melt rate in this region of central and eastern Himalaya is extreme and is devastating," Breashears said Wednesday at New York's Asia Society, which is hosting the exhibition July 13 to August 15.

Amid bad-tempered political debates over the causes and reality of global warming, Breashears speaks literally from the ground.

He went in the footsteps of three great early mountaineer-photographers: Mallory, Canadian-born mapping pioneer Edward Wheeler, and Italy's Vittorio Sella, whose work spanned the 19th and 20th centuries.

The result is then-and-now sets from Tibet, Nepal and near K2 in Pakistan showing seven glaciers in retreat -- not only much diminished, but in one case having dissolved into a lake.

"If this isn't evidence of the glaciers in serious decline, I don't know what is," the soft-spoken Breashears said.

...

Himalayan glaciers are the world's third largest reserve of ice after the north and south poles, and their seasonal melt water is a crucial source for Asia's great rivers, including the Ganges, Indus, Mekong and Yellow.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Science; Weather
KEYWORDS: 1921; asiasociety; breashears; davidbreashears; edwardwheeler; georgemallory; glaciers; himalayan; himalayas; iceloss; k2; mainrongbukglacier; mallory; mountains; nepal; pakistan; photos; receding; rongbuk; rongbukglacier; sella; tibet; vittoriosella; wheeler

A 1921 view taken by George Mallory of the Main Rongbuk Glacier (left), on the northern slope of Mount Everest and a 2007 view of the same glacier taken by David Breashears, courtesy of GlacierWorks. Decades of pollution and global warming appear to have left the glacier shrunken and withered. (AFP/Asia Society)


1 posted on 07/16/2010 2:11:08 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge

Looks about the same if not bigger to me......


2 posted on 07/16/2010 2:12:33 PM PDT by IamCenny
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To: NormsRevenge
Yep, those pesky glaciers have been retreating unabated ever since the last ice age. We just noticed the last 80 years’ worth.
3 posted on 07/16/2010 2:12:41 PM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: NormsRevenge

Are you kidding me? I don’t see any major differences between the two photos at all. What I do see are some minor differences in ice and snow coverage and some illusions created by black and white vs color, and by the difference in exposure (such as an area on the slope to the left that appears to be snow or ice in the 1921 photo, but which is actually just a difference in shading of the dirt or rock below it.

As far as the glacier, it actually looks wider today to me than it did in 1921. Am I missing something?


4 posted on 07/16/2010 2:16:37 PM PDT by noiseman (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.)
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To: NormsRevenge

NTSA !!


5 posted on 07/16/2010 2:16:39 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: NormsRevenge

Seems to me that any ‘warmth’ would have affected the whole area. When you look at the outlines of the other areas -— they seem the same. What time of year were the first pics and what time the 2nd?


6 posted on 07/16/2010 2:19:12 PM PDT by Exit148 (Loose Change Club Founder. Save your pennies for the next Freepathon. A little goes a long way!)
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To: NormsRevenge

And the Abominable Snowman will have nowhere to go!


7 posted on 07/16/2010 2:20:47 PM PDT by NaughtiusMaximus (Social Justice is the right to refuse to buy them the rope they want to hang you with.)
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To: IamCenny

The difference between a fresh hard snowfall and a summertime snow draught....this is just more bullshit ecoterrorist reporting.


8 posted on 07/16/2010 2:21:14 PM PDT by Gaffer ("Profiling: The only profile I need is a chalk outline around their dead ass!")
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To: NormsRevenge

Were these shot at the same time of the year?

They were clearly not shot with the same type of gear or film.

The B&W shot was shot with orthochromatic film, which was not sensitive to all colors in the spectrum.

On top of that, the two photos were shot with different focal length lenses, with changes most evident in the foreground.


9 posted on 07/16/2010 2:21:29 PM PDT by MediaMole
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To: NormsRevenge

In the 11th and 12th centuries, Vikings were living on the West coast of Greenland growing row crops and raising livestock outdoors. Seal and Walrus hunters ventured high into the Arctic in search of prey as late as October. Archaeological findings show Western explorers overwintered on the north coasts of Baffin Island and Hudson Bay.


10 posted on 07/16/2010 2:21:56 PM PDT by CholeraJoe ("What did the English ever give you? Muffins and a burnt White House. ")
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To: NormsRevenge
Instead of the powerful, white, S-shaped sweep of ice witnessed by Mallory before he died on his conquest of Everest, the Main Rongbuk Glacier today is shrunken and withered.

Proof! Proof! that we need to elect more Democrats. Don't delay, the fate of the entire solar system depends upon it.

11 posted on 07/16/2010 2:22:51 PM PDT by marron
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To: NormsRevenge

Guess I'd better increase the output on my ice maker!

12 posted on 07/16/2010 2:24:59 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save the Earth. It's the only planet with Chocolate.)
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To: MediaMole

not sure of time of year taken or specific equipment. I just post ‘em, and only sometimes research them.. :-}

This thread is destined for the cheese file.


13 posted on 07/16/2010 2:25:38 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed .. Monthly Donor Onboard)
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To: noiseman

Well the mountains are much more bare.


14 posted on 07/16/2010 2:28:53 PM PDT by valkyry1
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To: NormsRevenge
Yosemite Valley used to be full of ice fields and glaciers, but they are now all gone. Shame on the industrialists and polluters!


15 posted on 07/16/2010 2:29:19 PM PDT by Wallop the Cat
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To: NormsRevenge

16 posted on 07/16/2010 2:29:34 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: CholeraJoe; potlatch; ntnychik

SOMEONE'S IN HOT WATER

17 posted on 07/16/2010 2:30:07 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
I may have to see if we can resched our cruise next year from the Med back to Alaska again.. the Columbia Glacier is floating and receding too I hear. nothing like watching tons of ice calve and the kaaploooomp and watching seals nestling nearby bob in the wake on the chunks of ice..

Alaskan Glaciers

18 posted on 07/16/2010 2:30:35 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed .. Monthly Donor Onboard)
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To: NormsRevenge

Were the pictures both taken at the same time of the year? Were the preceding snowy periods as heavy?


19 posted on 07/16/2010 2:30:40 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Socialism is the philosophy of failure, - W Churchill)
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To: CholeraJoe
"In the 11th and 12th centuries, Vikings were living on the West coast of Greenland growing row crops and raising livestock outdoors. Seal and Walrus hunters ventured high into the Arctic in search of prey as late as October. Archaeological findings show Western explorers overwintered on the north coasts of Baffin Island and Hudson Bay."

Much to the chagrin of the French, brandy was first distilled in Ireland from Irish grapes.

20 posted on 07/16/2010 2:31:14 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: NormsRevenge
Here's a picture of Everest's north face taken in 1924, showing less snow on the peak than in either Mallory's 1921 shot or the recent image:


21 posted on 07/16/2010 2:33:25 PM PDT by hellbender
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To: NormsRevenge

Somehow I’ve misplaced the snapshots I took back “in the day” when glaciers covered Central Park in NYC and scooped out the Great Lakes. But any comparison pictures now would show they’re long gone due to “global warming.”


22 posted on 07/16/2010 2:33:52 PM PDT by Bernard Marx (I donÂ’t trust the reasoning of anyone who writes then when they mean than.)
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To: NormsRevenge

“Instead of the powerful, white, S-shaped sweep of ice witnessed by Mallory before he died on his conquest of Everest, the Main Rongbuk Glacier today is shrunken and withered.”

Ooooh I love, love love hyperbole!


23 posted on 07/16/2010 2:35:44 PM PDT by DariusBane (Even the Rocks shall cry out "Hobamma to the Highest")
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To: IamCenny
“Looks about the same if not bigger to me......”

You and Sebastian should team up and write trashy romance novels.

“Powerful Himalayan S curve thrusting powerfully through undulating Vally's.” Ok, I kinda made up that quote.

24 posted on 07/16/2010 2:39:08 PM PDT by DariusBane (Even the Rocks shall cry out "Hobamma to the Highest")
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To: NormsRevenge
The Fox Glacier in New Zealand has been receding for the last 250 years. The first sign when you go up the trail shows you where the glacier was in 1775, next sign about 1/2 mile up the trail and it was there in 1850. Go a bit farther and there is the Fox Glacier, a mere shadow of it's former self. Those SUV’s 200 years ago really did a number on poor Foxie.
25 posted on 07/16/2010 2:41:35 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: SteamShovel; Desdemona; grey_whiskers; proud_yank; Horusra; Thunder90; Dr. Bogus Pachysandra; ...
 


Beam me to Planet Gore !
While currently some glaciers are retreating there are others which are thickening. List of advancing glaciers. That is historically consistent ... good grief, the earth has seen Ice Ages retreat long before there were SUVs. Not so long ago the Snows of Kilimanjaro were a "hot" topic. Pat Michaels addressed that.

Consider the research of Ohio State University glaciologist Lonnie Thompson ... he who predicted in a 10/02 paper in Science an end to Kilimanjaro's glaciers by 2020, more or less, according to current trends. I remember when ABC news picked this up. Well. much of modern environmental journalism displays a pervasive lack of critical insight toward environmental scares and the scientific papers on which they are supposedly based. An inspection of Thompson's own data, also published in Science, shows that Kilimanjaro's glaciers would be dying even if Homo sapiens ancestors were still the dominant hominid in the Rift Valley, a few hundred miles to the West. That is to say, humans are not to blame for the glacial recession.

Thonpson cited five surveys of Kilimanjaro from 1912, 1953, 1976, 1989, and 2000, as per your graphic.

From 1912 to 1953, global temperatures rose (as measured controversially by surface thermometers) 0.4° C (0.74° F). This rise occurred before most of the industrial emissions of so-called "greenhouse gases" , mainly CO2 and CH4. As a result. most scientists think the warming of the 20th century had mainly to do with changes in Mr. Sun. In fact, slight changes in solar output have modulated the earth's surface temperature plus or minus about 1.0° C (1.8° F) over millennia.

Kilimanjaro's glaciers lost 45% of their areal extent during that era of solar warming. If the glaciers had continued to decline at the pace established in that period, they would already be gone by now, pfffft, even with no additional warming from the emissions of greenhouse gases.

But the glaciers are still here. From 1953 through 1976, another 21 percent of the original area was uncovered. This occurred during a period of global cooling of 0.07° C (0.13° F). OSU's press office could logically have written the following hype in 1976: "Kilimanjaro's glaciers will completely disappear by 2015 if this cooling trend continues".

It is patently obvious that global temperatures and their behavior of Kilimanjaro's glaciers are pretty independent, at least on the time scale of decades. Local climate, however, is apparently critical. A glacier cares what happens from its head to its toe, not elsewhere.

The local climate record around Kilimanjaro is confusing. There is very little cohesion between nearby thermometers which argues more that the data are bad than it does for any local cooling or warming. Poor (unsubsidized by Kyoto) countries have little income to spend on a quality climate-monitoring network.

Since, 1976, another 12% of the original mass has disappeared - and despite all the hoopla, a loss of 12% represents the slowest decline since 1912. Although the local temperature measurements are clearly questionable, more recent decades' measurements area as close to perfect as possible. In 1979 satellite monitoring began. All scientists - even the most ardent Anthropogenic Global Warming ™ apocalyptics - acknowledge that the satellite is excellent at measuring temperatures at the altitude of Kilimanjaro's glaciers - about 19,000 feet. In fact, it may measure temperatures at that altitude better than it does at sea level.

Around Kilimanjaro, satellite data shows a cooling of 0.22°C (0.40°F) since 1979, which is the same as the global warming rate between 1912 and 1953 (0.09°C or 0.17°F per decade). Still, Kilimanjaro's glaciers continue to shrink.

In his Science article, Thompson noted that the period from 4,000 to 11,000 years ago was warmer in Africa than it is today, and yet Kilimanjaro was much more glaciated because it was also wetter than it is today. Some estimates place today's precipitation at only 50% of what it was during the warmer period. Obviously, precipitation, not Anthropogenic Global Warming ™ temperature, is the key to the glaciation of Kilimanjaro.

Did people make it stop snowing? Precipitation in East Africa is highly correlated with El Niño activity in the tropical Pacific ocean. During the last big one, 1997-8, how many news stories promulgated the notion that El Niños are becoming more frequent because of AGW?

So someone could argue that humans cause global warming, global warming causes more El Niños, more El Niños affect precipitation, and therefore humans are causing the glaciers to recede. But, if people are causing more El Niños, then in fact it should be snowing more and more on Kilimanjaro - more than it did back in the day when it was even warmer, thousands of years ago.

26 posted on 07/16/2010 3:00:03 PM PDT by steelyourfaith ("Release the Second Chakra !!!!!!!" ... Al Gore, 10/24/06)
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To: NormsRevenge

My theory: Weather happens, then.. it happens again.

Any questions?


27 posted on 07/16/2010 3:10:01 PM PDT by Gator113 (God save the Republic.....)
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To: NormsRevenge
Here's a Google Earth simulation of the view, and a pullback of the same area:


28 posted on 07/16/2010 3:10:25 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: PhilDragoo; All


29 posted on 07/16/2010 3:13:20 PM PDT by potlatch (*snip*)
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To: NormsRevenge

It always a difference in between summer and winter pictures,,,but then again it snows more some years than others .


30 posted on 07/16/2010 3:21:34 PM PDT by piroque (God bless Lee and the rest of the True Americans. . ." The Confederates”)
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To: NormsRevenge
I thought it was interesting that they did not explicitly say the two photos were taken on exactly the same date and at the same time of day. Maybe they did in the larger article. But angle of sunlight and/or a few days difference in dates during the summer would make any comparison completely invalid. Besides, the two photos are actually very remarkable for their similarity.

But even if the differences are significant, the melting of glaciers means more liquid water was released into the general environment. It may have been awhile since I studied Biology, but I seem to recall something about water being important and necessary for life. I also remember that the warmer climes on this planet seem to have the most and widest varieties of life, so ... now I'm confused. Could somebody remind me why we should worry if it's getting warmer?

31 posted on 07/16/2010 3:40:48 PM PDT by katana (For what is an Irishman ? But a .......)
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To: noiseman
"Am I missing something?"

you need to put on the Global Warming Glasses:

32 posted on 07/16/2010 3:51:38 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: NormsRevenge

I actually see no difference....


33 posted on 07/16/2010 4:57:00 PM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: NormsRevenge

I see no significant difference. A fresh snowfall can make the mountains appear to have a much bigger snow pack than they actually do. See it all the time here in the Rockies. The glacier itself looks the same to me.


34 posted on 07/16/2010 5:02:34 PM PDT by TigersEye (Greenhouse Theory is false. Totally debunked. "GH gases" is a non-sequitur.)
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To: potlatch
Al Green. A classic.

Let's Stay Together

35 posted on 07/16/2010 6:20:07 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
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To: AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; blueyon; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; ...
Sebastian Smith
Google

36 posted on 07/17/2010 6:59:00 AM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv; Ernest_at_the_Beach

NOAA: EARTH TEMPS ‘HOTTEST ON RECORD’...
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2010/20100715_globalstats.html

Meteorologist disputes: Weather stations placed in warmer urban areas...
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/2010-07-15-heat-record_N.htm


37 posted on 07/18/2010 6:55:31 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (It takes courage to stay on Monster Ping. [Link in profile.])
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To: PhilDragoo; ntnychik
I finally found the Al GREENIES all together. They are singing "We Are The World". Very appropriate, huh? Lol


38 posted on 07/22/2010 6:52:33 PM PDT by potlatch (*snip* - *snap*)
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To: potlatch

Nice! ;-)


39 posted on 07/22/2010 10:40:43 PM PDT by ntnychik
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To: ntnychik

Thank you. Nothing like a bunch of little ET’s who turned green, lol.


40 posted on 07/24/2010 6:08:08 PM PDT by potlatch (*snip* - *snap*)
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