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HITLER MEETS LAVAL FOR SECRET TALK; TIE WITH AXIS REPORTED DISCUSSED (10/23/40)
Microfiche-New York Times archives, McHenry Library, U.C. Santa Cruz | 10/23/40 | C. Brooks Peters, James B. Reston, Augur

Posted on 10/23/2010, 1:08:04 PM by Homer_J_Simpson

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TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: milhist; realtime; worldwarii
Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime” Or view Homer’s posting history .)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile.
1 posted on 10/23/2010, 1:08:11 PM by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Selections from West Point Atlas for the Second World War
German Fighter Range and British Radar Deployment
Marcks’ Plan, August 5, 1940
The Mediterranean Basin (Map 33)
The Far East and the Pacific, 1941 – The Imperial Powers, 1 September 1939

Plus a special guest map from Michael Korda’s, “With Wings Like Eagles,” showing the air defenses of England and Wales, August 1940.

2 posted on 10/23/2010, 1:08:59 PM by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; GRRRRR; 2banana; henkster; ...
‘New Order’ Near – 2
The International Situation – 3
During an Axis Council of War at the Brenner Pass (photo) – 4
Nazi Fliers Foiled by London’s Smoke – 5-6
Weygand Held Tricked by Nazis to Agree to France’s Surrender – 6
75 Trains will Evacuate Berlin Children this Month – 6
Survey Finds Roosevelt’s Lead is Result Solely of War Crisis – 7
The Texts of the Day’s Communiques on the War – 8-9
3 posted on 10/23/2010, 1:10:13 PM by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1940/oct40/f23oct40.htm

Franco noncommittal to Hitler

Wednesday, October 23, 1940 www.onwar.com

In Occupied France... Hitler meets General Franco at Hendaye in southern France. Hitler tries to persuade Franco to join the war and offers as bait the allocation of Gibraltar and territory in North Africa. Franco is uncertain about how to proceed and successfully muddles the issue, leaving Hitler no better informed as to what is Spanish policy but without causing offense.


4 posted on 10/23/2010, 1:14:27 PM by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.etherington/month/thismonth/23.htm

October 23rd, 1940

UNITED KINGDOM:
Battle of Britain: By night Glasgow and London are bombed.

Losses: Luftwaffe, 3; RAF, 1.

London: MPs protested today at critical comments by the author H G Wells, now lecturing in America, about British politicians and generals, whom he has also criticised in the Sunday Pictorial magazine. The government was asked why he was allowed to go abroad to denigrate his country at its hour of peril. Emanuel (Manny) Shinwell, a Labour MP, deplored Wells’s speech but said that we were fighting for the right of free expression. Mr Peake, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary at the Home Office, said that Britain needed all the dollars it could earn; an American senator has said that Wells is harming Britain’s cause.

Destroyer HMS Avon Vale launched. (Dave Shirlaw)

FRANCE: Hendaye: Hitler fails to persuade Spain’s General Franco to join the Axis or to let Germany attack Gibraltar through Spain.

CANADA: Minesweepers HMS Kelowna and Courtenay ordered from Prince Rupert Dry Dock and Shipyards Co, Prince Rupert, British Columbia.

U.S.A.: Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox makes a public statement that it was now US policy to fully defend the Philippine Islands against any and all attack. (Marc Small)

USS Conner (DD-72), commissioned as HMS Leeds (G-27), USS McCalla (DD-253), commissioned as HMS Stanley (I-73), USS Philip (DD-76), commissioned as HMS Lancaster (G-05), USS Rodgers (DD-254), commissioned as HMS Sherwood (I-80), USS Stockton (DD-73), commissioned as HMS Ludlow (G-57), USS Twiggs (DD-127), commissioned as HMS Leamington (G-19), and USS Evans (DD-78), commissioned as HMS Mansfield (G-76), and USS Yarnell (DD-143), commissioned as HMS Lincoln (G-42), as part of the destroyers-for-bases deal. (Ron Babuka)

USS Conway (DD-70), commissioned as HMS Lewes (G-68), part of the destroyers-for-bases deal. Lewes outlives all of her sisters in British service; stripped of valuable scrap and scuttled off Sydney, Australia 25 May 1946. (Ron Babuka)


5 posted on 10/23/2010, 1:15:47 PM by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://worldwar2daybyday.blogspot.com/

Day 419 October 23, 1940

Battle of Britain Day 106. The weather deteriorates further with poor visibility due to low cloud and drizzle. Luftwaffe mounts only reconnaissance flights and sporadic raids of single bomb-carrying fighters. No fighters are shot down by either side. There is relatively light night bombing of London and Glasgow and minelaying off the Yorkshire coast in Northeast England.

In an attempt to bring Fascist Spain into the war on the side of Germany, Hitler travels to Hendaye, Southern France, to meet General Franco. Over 9 hours of negotiations, Hitler offers Gibraltar and territory in North Africa to Spain but Franco demands French Catalonia (North of the Pyrenees), almost all of Morocco and a large chunk of Algeria. Hitler later confides (to Mussolini) that he would rather have 3 or 4 teeth pulled out than continue the discussions.

10 more WWI-era US Navy destroyers are transferred to Royal Navy at Halifax, Nova Scotia, for escort duty as part of the “destroyers for bases” deal between Churchill and Roosevelt.


6 posted on 10/23/2010, 1:17:15 PM by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Interesting story in there about Gallup finding that Wilkie would be leading FDR if not for the international crisis.


7 posted on 10/23/2010, 2:04:07 PM by mainepatsfan
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To: mainepatsfan; BroJoeK
Interesting story in there about Gallup finding that Wilkie would be leading FDR if not for the international crisis.

The Battle of Britain and Churchill's speeches are working in Roosevelt's favor.

And I swear I didn't read today's polling story before I made my highly astute comment to BroJoeK last Monday. (See reply #10 from the 18th.)

10/18/40 thread

8 posted on 10/23/2010, 2:26:11 PM by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Battle of Britain Campaign Diary

Date: 23rd October 1940


9 posted on 10/23/2010, 2:26:11 PM by CougarGA7 (It take a village to raise an idiot.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
"Wilkie Questions Roosevelt Pledge to Avoid War Entry"

FDR was a lying pinko skunk.

10 posted on 10/23/2010, 3:27:24 PM by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
"And I swear I didn't read today's polling story before I made my highly astute comment to BroJoeK last Monday. (See reply #10 from the 18th.)"

All your comments are highly astute, and clever too... ;-)

What do you predict -- will Hitler see the mailed-fist starting to clench across the Atlantic, and will he sue for peace, thus helping elect Willkie, before it's too late?

Oh, the suspense. :-)

11 posted on 10/23/2010, 4:21:31 PM by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BenLurkin
"FDR was a lying pinko skunk."

Lying? Obviously, he was a Democrat politician.

Pinko? None pinker until our current Democrat President.

Skunk? Well, he was a three-pack-a-day smoker. So I guess that did make him a literal stinker.
But I think in those days the word "stinker" was reserved for drunks, like Churchill.

Amazing that on such fallible men the fate of mankind depended...

12 posted on 10/23/2010, 4:33:04 PM by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

One article on the second picture about the French Fleet hides an interesting fact. Churchill was desperately trying to get the U.S. into the war (as was France). One of the blackmail items Churchill used was the threat of the French Fleet going over to Hitler. That, and the “suggestion”, that if the UK went under, he couldn’t guarantee that the British navy wouldn’t be handed over as well by his successor (probably the ace appeaser Halifax) and overpower America’s influence in the Atlantic.

There was a very large appeasement/defeatist element amongst British “elites” and businessmen then, which is one reason Rudolph Hess was branded a madman - if it came out that he came to contact this element, and named names, it would have been “embarrassing” (cough).

I have some heartburn with Churchill, but if it hadn’t been for his iron will to stick it out, the UK would have gone the Halifax route.


13 posted on 10/23/2010, 4:41:46 PM by Oatka ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." –Bertrand de Jouvenel)
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To: BroJoeK
What do you predict -- will Hitler see the mailed-fist starting to clench across the Atlantic, and will he sue for peace, thus helping elect Willkie, before it's too late?

My proven analytical skills qualify me to make the following prediction:

Hitler may be crazy, but he's not stupid. He knows he can't prevail in a prolonged war because of his limited natural resources. Goering has failed to knock the RAF out of the sky, so there will be no invasion. And it also looks like the English are not going to throw Churchill out and replace him with an appeaser. Hitler the realist will consolidate his gains in western Europe and demobilize to some extent to get German industry back to normal. He and Stalin will reach an understanding over the Balkans and the non-aggression pact of last year will once more ensure a frosty but nonviolent situation in the east. Mussolini may continue to harass the British in the Mediterranean and Africa but the Fuhrer will keep him on a leash just short enough to prevent a major flare-up in that region.

This will all develop too slowly to help Willkie on election day, however. The war fear will last long enough to get Roosevelt his third term. The problem will come next year. As the new international status quo settles in the economic doldrums will return and the American people will be back in the middle of a depression.

That is the easy part. You don't need to be an expert in foreign affairs to see such a future for the west. Asia is a different kettle of fish. I don't pretend to see the future of the Pacific rim with anything like that sort of clarity. Those Asians just don't think like we do so there is no telling which way they may jump. I will only go so far as to predict Soviet-Japanese non-aggression pact with similar to the Hitler-Stalin one.

14 posted on 10/23/2010, 8:08:57 PM by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Oatka

That hardness of Churchill was baffling to the Nazis. They really believed that once they had knocked the French out of the war that the Brits would be eager for piece. They still really thought that and viewed Churchill as a lone (but important) decenter. In Goebbels’ diary in late June of 1940 he wrote, “Are the English giving in? No sure signs visible yet, Churchill still talks big. But then he is not England.” So even the Nazi propaganda minister believed that if Churchill was gone that the British would fold. He may well have been correct on that account too.


15 posted on 10/24/2010, 3:37:37 AM by CougarGA7 (It take a village to raise an idiot.)
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To: CougarGA7
So even the Nazi propaganda minister believed that if Churchill was gone that the British would fold. He may well have been correct on that account too.

I believe he was. To a great degree, the British aristocracy and businesses thought (as epitomized by Halifax) that Hitler would be a bulwark to Communism and were willing to settle for a peace that left their independence and colonies alone. Hitler was proposing "you stick with America and rule your colonies, we rule Europe".

Lots of unofficial peace feelers were going out when France was collapsing, with some trying to get a deal brokered by either the U.S. and/or Italy.

16 posted on 10/24/2010, 2:55:00 PM by Oatka ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." –Bertrand de Jouvenel)
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