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Go to church, meet an atheist
Isthmus ^ | 11/11/10 | Bill Lueders

Posted on 11/15/2010 3:20:59 PM PST by chickadee

Esbensen, 53, who was ordained as a Unitarian Universalist minister in 1996 and recently became head of a Madison congregation, does not believe in God or life after death. She calls herself a "humanist atheist." She thinks belief in deity has arguably done more to hurt than help the world.

"People who do not believe in God are actually kinder, gentler people," she says. A personal belief in God, for instance, was not needed for Esbensen to comfort the dying woman in Minnesota, to "say what she needed to hear."

This fall, Esbensen became minister of the Prairie Unitarian Universalist Society, 2010 Whenona Dr., near South Midvale and the Beltline. She splits her time between there and Lake Country Unitarian Universalist Church in Hartland, about 40 miles west of Milwaukee, where she's been a minister since 2009.

(Excerpt) Read more at thedailypage.com ...


TOPICS: Humor; Religion; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: atheist; god; jeremiahwright; milwaukee; obamasnextchurch; unitarian; wisconsin
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Esbensen has found acceptance among fellow Unitarians, where humanists are a known quantity. But people from other faiths, when they learn she's an atheist, are often "a little puzzled and concerned." Most tragically, when she became a minister she lost her best friend, who felt this was not an appropriate role for a nonbeliever.

"That is so arrogant," clucks Esbensen. "There can be a lot of arrogance attached to people who believe in God."

You can't make this stuff up.

1 posted on 11/15/2010 3:21:06 PM PST by chickadee
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To: chickadee

I once had a Presbyterian minister tell me that 70% of ministers admitted they did not believe Jesus is the Son of God.

Of course the Unitarians take it to a whole new level.


2 posted on 11/15/2010 3:24:36 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: chickadee
"People who do not believe in God are actually kinder, gentler people," she says.

Yeah, like Joe Stalin, Fidel Castro, and Kim Jong-il.

3 posted on 11/15/2010 3:25:13 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: chickadee

I have met several graduates or near-graduates of seminaries. Most do not accept nor believe the basic fundamentals of the Gospel.

It’s just basically a “social gospel” with Christian labels attached.


4 posted on 11/15/2010 3:26:20 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: driftdiver

I know a Unitarian. I couldn’t believe that they include Wicca, among other things, in their “church”.

Unitarianism is for people who want an excuse to dress up on Sunday.


5 posted on 11/15/2010 3:27:13 PM PST by chickadee
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To: chickadee

Unitarian Universalist... This explains everything. This is the kingdom of RELATIVISM. I’m ok...you’re ok. My truth is fine, so is your truth, even if it is diametrically opposed to my truth. There is NO objective truth.

Unitarian Universalist: the epitome of “supreme lack of logic.”

Pray for these people...that their minds may become clear and unclouded.


6 posted on 11/15/2010 3:27:46 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: chickadee
What do you get when you cross a Unitarian with a Jehovah's Witness?

Someone who knocks on your door for no apparent reason.

7 posted on 11/15/2010 3:28:01 PM PST by tbpiper
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To: chickadee

The UU’s are a bunch of yo-yos.

IIRC, I think Walter Mondale’s dad, who was a UU minister, was one of the signers of the first Humanist Manifesto.

It’s a church for people who don’t what the word church means.


8 posted on 11/15/2010 3:29:57 PM PST by angryoldfatman
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To: chickadee

Pete Stark, mentally ill Demonrat congressman from California, is an Atheist and Unitarian Universalist.


9 posted on 11/15/2010 3:29:59 PM PST by magellan
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To: chickadee

I’ve heard Unitarians complain that there was too much talk about God in church.


10 posted on 11/15/2010 3:29:59 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: F15Eagle
Most do not accept nor believe the basic fundamentals of the Gospel.

Then what's the point? Esbenson's best friend (who dumped her) had it right - minister is not an appropriate career for an atheist.
11 posted on 11/15/2010 3:30:21 PM PST by chickadee
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To: chickadee

This is not a church, it is a tax status.


12 posted on 11/15/2010 3:31:12 PM PST by La Lydia
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To: chickadee

You know I just recently talked to someone who aquainted me with the whole goings on of Madyln Murray O’hair, prob one of the most famous atheists and an extremely vile person who got prayer taken out of school.

Honestly, WHY did they listen to one woman, instead of the majority of the public?

I mean, since prayer has been taken out of school, does anybody notice the country is getting better?


13 posted on 11/15/2010 3:31:34 PM PST by Beowulf9
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To: tbpiper

Wonderful! Thanks for the laugh.

This woman is a “minister” at two churches. What am I missing?


14 posted on 11/15/2010 3:31:56 PM PST by chickadee
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To: chickadee

Today’s Sermon:

There’s No God, No Afterlife, Nothing Really Matters, It’s all going to die or be destroyed someday

Talk about something to give your life meaning, go to an “atheist pastor”!


15 posted on 11/15/2010 3:32:45 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: chickadee

“Unitarian Universalist minister”

Would it matter if she believed in God?


16 posted on 11/15/2010 3:33:01 PM PST by pallis
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To: angryoldfatman

“UU” sounds a lot like yoyo.


17 posted on 11/15/2010 3:33:14 PM PST by chickadee
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To: chickadee

Almost forgot. Obama’s atheist mother, communist grandfather, and typical white grandmother were Unitarian Universalists when they lived in Seattle.


18 posted on 11/15/2010 3:34:10 PM PST by magellan
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To: magellan
Obama’s atheist mother, communist grandfather, and typical white grandmother were Unitarian Universalists when they lived in Seattle.

Then skipping on over to Rev. Wright's "church" would have been easy.
19 posted on 11/15/2010 3:36:14 PM PST by chickadee
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To: pallis

It seems like a lot of atheists and progressives spend a lot of their lives thinking about who they dislike and ways to disenfranchise and mock those people that are not like them.


20 posted on 11/15/2010 3:38:00 PM PST by omega4179 (Quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius)
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To: chickadee
You can't make this stuff up.

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction...

21 posted on 11/15/2010 3:40:04 PM PST by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis (Want to make $$$? It's Easy! Use FR to Pimp Your Blog!)
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To: chickadee

“Good works” as near as I can tell. In 2.5 years of working with some of them, I never heard them directly say, in my presence, how Jesus died for our sins and is the only way that we can be Saved. If they believed it, it was never uttered to me. Lotsa comments about praise and worship music, and helping people, which is all fine surely, but nada on the other. It was about “showing the love of God” which is great, but the Gospel is what saves.

When I remarked to one how islam contradicts and rejects the Gospel and is of the spirit of Antichrist, one remarked immediately to me “that’s pretty harsh!”.

It’s not “harsh” - it’s the truth.

He then later praised “interfaith dialogue” and the notion that it would grow, no doubt led down this path by a liberal, ecumenical seminary professor. This “all faiths” ecumenical “gospel” is being promoted and will result in a religious harlot that believes everything except the Gospel.


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+2:2&version=KJV

1 Corinthians 2:2 (King James Version)

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+6:14&version=KJV

Galatians 6:14 (King James Version)

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.


22 posted on 11/15/2010 3:42:21 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: magellan; Beckwith; 2ndDivisionVet; Cvengr; 444Flyer; ETL

I read 1/2 page (or less) of Obama’s book at a local Barnes and Noble about 2 years ago. Don’t remember which book, but the context seemed to be a rejection of the Gospel because he said he grew up in a household that rejected that 3/4 of the world was in unbelief. Don’t know if anyone is able to quote that section of his book.


23 posted on 11/15/2010 3:49:40 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: chickadee

I remember watching a TV evangelist and I said to my mother, that guy’s a crook. She said how could he talk about God and cheat these people. I said—He is a con-artist. He doesn’t believe in God. Well, then it made sense.


24 posted on 11/15/2010 3:53:21 PM PST by Taffini ( Mr. Pippen and Mr. Waffles do not approve and neither do I)
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To: tbpiper

Know how you terrorize a Unitarian?

Burn a question mark in their front yard.


25 posted on 11/15/2010 4:06:54 PM PST by CrazyIvan (What's "My Struggle" in Kenyan?)
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To: driftdiver
I once had a Presbyterian minister tell me that 70% of ministers admitted they did not believe Jesus is the Son of God.

I wrote to the minister of the local Presbyterian church, saying that I was interested in attending the church (I am) but I wanted to know whether his particular church is governed by "political correctness" which seems to be affecting many Presbyterian churches. I also specifically asked whether "Onward Christian Soldiers" appears in the hymnal (some churches have banned it as being "too militaristic."

That was two weeks ago. I'm still waiting for an answer.

26 posted on 11/15/2010 4:10:31 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: Taffini
I remember watching a TV evangelist and I said to my mother, that guy’s a crook. She said how could he talk about God and cheat these people. I said—He is a con-artist. He doesn’t believe in God. Well, then it made sense.

I don't know if you ever read anything by Lewis Grizzard,
but he said once that when he was a boy that his preacher
performed a funeral for a little boy's dog because the boy
asked him to and he knew how much the dog meant to him.
Lewis said that that became his litmus test for clergy. He
would look at them and ask himself if this person would
preach a funeral for a boys dog.

27 posted on 11/15/2010 4:11:21 PM PST by CrazyIvan (What's "My Struggle" in Kenyan?)
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To: OldPossum

I wouldnt recommend a Presbyterian Church USA. Presbyterian Church of America is biblical though.

I say this as a former elder of a PC USA church.


28 posted on 11/15/2010 4:16:41 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

“I once had a Presbyterian minister tell me that 70% of ministers admitted they did not believe Jesus is the Son of God.”

There are liberal Presbyterian denominations and conservative ones (PCA, OPC, RPCNA, CRC. . .)

Your “minister” was obviously from one of the liberal ones. FYI.


29 posted on 11/15/2010 4:30:48 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: Mr. Mojo

“Yeah, like Joe Stalin, Fidel Castro, and Kim Jong-il. “

You forgot Chairman Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Madalyn Murray O’Hare, and Lenin.

Treasures, all.


30 posted on 11/15/2010 4:32:34 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: OldPossum

A good rule of thumb is to see if the church adheres to the Westminister Confession of Faith and if it is Presbyterian Church of American or of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. Those denominations are solidly in the conservative camp. I can’t speak for Cumberland Presbyterians much. Nor of Orthodox Pres (but I assume I know where they stand). PC USA is a very mixed bag.

I find the 70% figure a bit hard to believe. Most ministers had a calling. To have a calling and be that wishy-washy seems to mock the whole idea of a calling.


31 posted on 11/15/2010 4:32:56 PM PST by CaspersGh0sts
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To: OldPossum
Re: 26

PC-USA - stay away (they're probably a lost cause).

PCA and the OPC are pretty good.

I really like the Free Presbyterian Church (www.FreePres.org ) - but there aren't any in California (let alone the Bay Area) - but I've enjoyed listening to sermons from various of their pastors on www.Sermonaudio.com. Alan Cairns is excellent (as is John Greer, etc).

32 posted on 11/15/2010 4:41:21 PM PST by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: Persevero

No he was very conservative and lamenting on those who were not.


33 posted on 11/15/2010 4:41:31 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: CaspersGh0sts

“I find the 70% figure a bit hard to believe. “

I did too but trusted this man.


34 posted on 11/15/2010 4:42:50 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

“No he was very conservative and lamenting on those who were not.”

I see, I misunderstood.

I know there are still Christians in the liberal Pres. churches; just not very many.

No pastor who denied faith in Christ could keep his position in the conservative ones.


35 posted on 11/15/2010 4:43:40 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: CaspersGh0sts

I attended an Orthodox Presbyterian church when I lived in Morristown NJ. Westminster Confession and the Bible. Theat congregation will emphasize the Bible comes first.


36 posted on 11/15/2010 4:45:04 PM PST by Fred Hayek (FUBO! I salute you with the soles of my shoes.)
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To: CrazyIvan

Lewis Grizzard was a wonderful writer (he passed away several years ago). Just the titles of his books were funny. “Shoot Low Boys, They’re Riding Shetland Ponies”, “When My True Love Returns From The Ladie’s Room, Will I Be Too Old To Care?”, “Elvis is Dead, and I Don’t Feel So Good Myself”. The last book of his I read was “I Haven’t Understood Anything Since 1965” (or was it 1964?), I forget; but it was a very good book. I miss Lewis. :o(


37 posted on 11/15/2010 4:48:53 PM PST by Twinkie
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To: Persevero

“No pastor who denied faith in Christ could keep his position in the conservative ones.”

In PCUSA they will keep the retirement of any pastor who moves to another non-PCUSA church. That puts a lot of people in very difficult positions.

His figure was based on a confidential survey taken among the pastors. Apparently these pastors always seem to preach on the old testament and not the new testament.


38 posted on 11/15/2010 4:51:29 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

Unitarians believe in at most one god.


39 posted on 11/15/2010 4:58:14 PM PST by reg45
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To: reg45

You’re right, from those I’ve met its usually themselves.


40 posted on 11/15/2010 5:02:04 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: reg45

Never understood the appeal of the Unitarians. Why celebrate communion? It seems like they are just a group of leftists masquerading as a “church”. I’d rather stay home and watch football.


41 posted on 11/15/2010 5:07:07 PM PST by boop ("Let's just say they'll be satisfied with LESS"... Ming the Merciless)
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To: El Cid

Re ost32, I am not positive but I think this church is a member of the Presbyterian Church of the United States, and if so, from what I have read, you’re right, it is a lost cause.

Going undercover the other night I went to their Italian dinner (just hungry) and they make excellent spaghetti and meatballs, though.

I appreciate the other suggestions and will see if I can find a church that’s a member within reasonable driving distance.


42 posted on 11/15/2010 5:25:02 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: CaspersGh0sts

Oh, I’m sorry. I missed seeing your post 30. Thank you for the information.

I was raised in the Presbyterian faith and feel comfortable in those churches, though for many years I have strayed from the straight and narrow. The last church I attended was the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church in Washington, DC. The Rev. George Docherty was the pastor, and he was an eloquent speaker of the faith.


43 posted on 11/15/2010 5:30:45 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: OldPossum
Going undercover the other night I went to their Italian dinner (just hungry) and they make excellent spaghetti and meatballs, though.

Hah! I certainly would stay away from a good meal (reading about spaghetti and meatballs right now is making me hungry) -- but I doubt they offer any good Spiritual food (there might be some exceptions amongst the PC-USA churches - but I doubt it... Otherwise they wouldn't be in the PC-USA denomination).

Its hard to find a good Church nowadays. I pray the LORD leads you to one.

44 posted on 11/15/2010 5:33:40 PM PST by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: Beowulf9
Madyln Murray O’hair, prob one of the most famous atheists and an extremely vile person who got prayer taken out of school. Honestly, WHY did they listen to one woman, instead of the majority of the public?

There were big interests behind the removal of school prayer. O’hair was only a front.

45 posted on 11/15/2010 5:33:52 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: OldPossum
I appreciate the other suggestions and will see if I can find a church that’s a member within reasonable driving distance.

I'm not drunk, folks, really. I'll redo that paragraph.

I appreciate the other suggestions and will see if I can find a church that is within a reasonable driving distance.

46 posted on 11/15/2010 5:35:11 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: OldPossum

I’m a Baptist, but 10 years or so ago, while I lived in Arkansas, I attended a Presbyterian church.

The pastor there preached the Gospel, although an added attraction was the bagpipe band from Lyon College that gave concerts there from time to time.

If you haven’t heard bagpipes in full roar inside an enclosed space, you just haven’t lived yet.


47 posted on 11/15/2010 5:35:45 PM PST by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man.)
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To: driftdiver

And I thank you for the information in post 28.


48 posted on 11/15/2010 5:37:24 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: OldPossum

Individual pastors in PCUSA can be good but you have to watch. But we should watch our pastors anyway, all of our church leaders really.


49 posted on 11/15/2010 5:47:01 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: omega4179
It seems like a lot of atheists and progressives spend a lot of their lives thinking about who they dislike and ways to disenfranchise and mock those people that are not like them.

Of course, being a good Christian, you would never do such a thing?

50 posted on 11/15/2010 6:26:53 PM PST by Doe Eyes
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