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Okay birthers, I'm open to the speculation, educate me for a second to two...
04/13/2011 | TMMT

Posted on 04/13/2011 12:43:16 AM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour

I understand the general nuance of the birther argument. And I see there's more than one prevailing theory.

While I still have a hard time believing Osama was born in Kenya. I am warming to the idea he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, became an Indonesian citizen and most likely obtained an Indonesian passport which allowed his travels to Pakistan and beyond. As well as possibly entering college in the US as a foreign student. And I'm sure there was a Muslim thing going on too... much proof of that is already out there and not in dispute.

He applied and was awarded foreign student aid, student aid from his home country (Indonesia) at the time, etc... maybe he claimed a Kenyan birth, British Father/Subject to obtain student aid that way... very plausible and would certainly explain his reluctance to release his college paperwork.

And all of that could be done with a Hawaiian birth and a sealed B/C due to the adoption, Hawaiian laws and subsequent re-issuance of the B/C.

Anyway, lets focus on Trump.

Is he throwing the hail mary pass of the century with this claim?

Does he have something he's not yet releasing or talking specifically about?

Strategic planning at work here, the mother of all October surprises?

Possibly telegraphing to Osama, that I found your dirty little secret, I have it and your day is coming?

Blackmail?

Or is he just such a massive ego maniac, that he's let it go so far to his head he's lost touch with reality, has nothing and somehow thinks all of this is an extension of his reality show?

If Trump has nothing, produces nothing, ends up blowing all this media hype he's churned into a boil... that window comes and goes the media will eviscerate him, intentionally, for no other reason than to seek revenge upon him, discredit him even further and remind others not to mess with them, the media.

What does he gain, he needs to be take seriously in certain circles to at least keep his TV shows going, and money flowing into his pockets... that's Hollywood, the media, etc... why risk the only thing he has left over a Geraldo-esq Al Capone's Vault stunt?

It don't make any sense... none of it does honestly...

Now... for almost three years piles and piles of investigators from political campaigns, parties, WND, PI's hired by attorneys suing for records, and I'm sure some groups we've yet to even hear about...etc, etc... why do we think that Trump will find what they couldn't?

Now, If any of you don't think for a minute that the DNC hasn't been looking as well your a fool. While they publicly ridicule and scoff at the idea I am 110% positive they too have been digging... just in case it all turns out to be true.

No one seriously doubts that the media failed to vet this guy, but I find it hard to believe that in some room, somewhere, some serious top level journalist, editor or party elder has done a quality investigation just to make sure its not true.

To risk the destruction of the DNC... I would image that even the liberals in the media wouldn't want that. And throwing one guy under the bus to save the party is not out of the question for libs and the media, its happened before.

What would make Osama any different, why risk the literal destruction of the political party they worship for this one guy, who's frankly not even a very good liberal, by liberal standards... even his healthcare nightmare isn't what 90% of those who voted for him wanted, they were after full on cradle to grave commie care. Which while it is a disaster, its not full bore socialized medicine. And it looks as if the Repubs can defund it if they wanted to, so again what's he gotten the DNC and the MSM, why would they risk it all for one lackluster center-center-left-liberal?

There liberals yes, their ideologically driven yes, but I find it hard to believe that not one serious journalist guy or gal employed by the likes of the NY Times can't see or think far enough ahead to realize that no matter how absurd they think it might be. That if true it would destroy the entire DNC, their Saint Osama and create a Constitutional Crisis in this country that could possibly tear it apart.

I don't buy it... even dictators understand the idea of the endgame.

So I ask, what's the deal... why is Trump raising nine kinds of hell, what does he have?

Or is has he just lost it?

The last thing we need going into a presidential campaign is another loon-bat on the loose, running from TV camera to TV camera talking up issues. Taking away from our serious choice, if we even have one...

You know the media will eat that up and spend as much time and energy as humanly possible making sure he's on TV babbling on and on about God only knows what, while wearing a shower curtain with noodle strainer on his head.

We all better hope Trump has something.

If not and he drags this out until the middle of the campaign it will be a guaranteed 4 more years of Osama. And if Trump crashes and burns in too dramatic of a fashion he could impact House and Senate races. We could lose more seats in the Senate and lose the House.

Its not out of the realm of possibility.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: 2012; allegedlyamerican; allegedlyeligible; allegedlyhawaiian; allegedlykenyan; attentionwhore; certifigate; comboverboy; naturalborncitizen; obama; trump
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1 posted on 04/13/2011 12:43:19 AM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Video: A Question of Eligibility (Full Movie!) Very informative!

http://youtu.be/mUmVFTUyEOM

PETITION FOR PUBLIC RELEASE OF
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81550


2 posted on 04/13/2011 12:45:30 AM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Whatever information is there Obumer has spent million’s trying to protect and the MSM has done a full court press ennobling him. If it was a Republican they would string his testicles on a rack until he came clean.


3 posted on 04/13/2011 12:48:19 AM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
While I still have a hard time believing Osama was born in Kenya

I never had any beliefs that Obama was born anywhere else but in the United States. But, so far that has not been confirmed. So, nobody can say for sure.

Even if Barry Soetoro aka Barack Hussein Obama had been birthed in the Lincoln Bedroom of the White House and he were a natural born citizen, since when do we just ignore verifying with documents? That's the biggest point. Try getting a drivers license without anything but your word.

Even if all were fine with the birth certificate, he still needs to show it. We do not go by an individual's word in this nation. This is not Kenya. Furthermore, you cannot be President if a parent was not a US Citizen at the time of birth. Not that any of Obama's parents were not US Citizens or anything (we can't know for sure - the long form has that information.) Unless it was doctored.

But we cannot just accept an individual's word. If we did that, today's anchor babies could be tomorrow's President, today's illegal alien could be tomorrow's Commander In Chief. This really has nothing to do with President Obama. It has to do with the US Constitution and the presidence that's being set.

To accept his or anybody's word and their word alone is to open up a can of worms for all future Presidents, and voters for that matter. Obama's failure to show the appropriate documents to prove his eligibility sets a precedence for all future Presidents. If President Obama does have documents to prove his eligibility then why should anybody else?

As Bill Clinton may have said "It's the presidence, stupid!"

4 posted on 04/13/2011 12:50:56 AM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
If Trump has nothing, produces nothing, ends up blowing all this media hype he's churned into a boil... that window comes and goes the media will eviscerate him...

Trump doesn't have to produce squat. That burden is on 0bama and no one else.
5 posted on 04/13/2011 12:51:43 AM PDT by ComputerGuy (HM2/USN M/3/3 Marines RVN 66-67)
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult
If it was a Republican they would string his testicles on a rack until he came clean.

If it was a Repub, they'd of never been elected.

The media would have created a 24/7/365 cable channel dedicated to nothing but destroying the guy or gal... and then spend the rest of eternity remind people of the fact we tried to run a foreign born, illegal with a shady, fraudulent past for president.

6 posted on 04/13/2011 12:52:37 AM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour (With The Resistance...)
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To: ComputerGuy
Trump doesn't have to produce squat. That burden is on 0bama and no one else.

Exactly!

7 posted on 04/13/2011 12:53:53 AM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com)
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To: ComputerGuy
Trump doesn't have to produce squat. That burden is on 0bama and no one else.

Well in your world maybe... but elections take place in the real world and Trump better have something or its over, the media will use it to discredit the entire party come election time and then constantly remind America of all those crazy conservative birthers...

8 posted on 04/13/2011 12:54:34 AM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour (With The Resistance...)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

FLASHBACK: 2008 - Congressional Hearings Held To Determine Sen. John McCain’s Constitutionality For Presidency: No Controlling Authority To Constitutionally Verify Hussein Obama’s Alleged Hawaiian Natural Birth.


9 posted on 04/13/2011 12:56:19 AM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
I am warming to the idea he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, ...

I believe that is an established fact.

...became an Indonesian citizen...

As I understand it there is no documented proof of 0bama's Indonesian citizenship but foreign children can't be enrolled in Indonesian schools.

... and most likely obtained an Indonesian passport which allowed his travels to Pakistan and beyond.

He could have traveled to Pakistan on a U.S. passport.

10 posted on 04/13/2011 12:57:00 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Sorry, FRiend. I don’t buy that.


11 posted on 04/13/2011 12:57:57 AM PDT by ComputerGuy (HM2/USN M/3/3 Marines RVN 66-67)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

The real world is the fact that John McCain was forced into Congressional hearings to prove his eligibility to be President because of having been born on a US Military base in Panama. He had to bring all the documents that Obama has so far refused to make public.


12 posted on 04/13/2011 1:00:23 AM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com)
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To: TigersEye
He could have traveled to Pakistan on a U.S. passport.

Nobody using a US Passport would have been able to enter Pakistan during the time that Obama went there.

13 posted on 04/13/2011 1:02:23 AM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

I don’t know that Trump actually has anything. He’s just asking questions that should have been pursued long ago, but for whatever reason the current oval office occupant got a free pass on.

Calling someone a birther seems to me to say about them that they’re claiming something, when I think that it’s less than a single percent of them that are claiming anything, just also asking reasonable questions, as Trump is now. Some do propose theories, sure. But who really knows? The facts aren’t overwhelming, and some claims are still made even after they’ve been refuted, doing nobody any favors.

I don’t know if he was born in Hawaii. He might very well have been. Others here have pointed out to me that’s not even enough to be a natural born citizen since his father was a British subject by way of Kenya and his mother was under age. Who to believe? I’m learning about this as I go.

I think it’s reasonable to also ask about Indonesian citizenship, name change, foreign aid and registering as a foreign student to get it, and if there was Saudi financing of his time at Harvard to explain his humiliating bow to their king.

Trump’s a smart man. He’s not pretending to have any unique access to the truth as far as I can tell. He has greater resources than most though, so maybe he’ll be more able to get answers to these questions, which to me seem legitimate ones for citizens to ask of someone who wants to be their president.


14 posted on 04/13/2011 1:04:26 AM PDT by OldNewYork (social justice isn't justice; it's just socialism)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

http://www.catholicbook.com/catholicbook/Obama%20summary.htm


15 posted on 04/13/2011 1:04:32 AM PDT by tallyhoe
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To: tsowellfan

False. There were no travel restrictions to Pakistan then. There was a travel advisory but that does not prohibit travel. It’s BS that people keep repeating and has been debunked a thousand times here on FR.


16 posted on 04/13/2011 1:10:01 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: tsowellfan
There were no Congressional hearings about McCain's eligibility. The Senate passed a declaration, that has no power of law, saying that he was eligible.

Citizen McCain

17 posted on 04/13/2011 1:12:12 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

For any republican who is afraid of Donald Trump and just wishes he’d go away. It’s simple, get Congress to do the job they should have done back in 2008. Tell them to do it now so that this eligibility issue is no longer on the table.

They did it when they questioned McCain’s eligibility back in 2008.

Tell Boehner to start Congressional hearings like they did against McCain.

It’s as simple as that.

PETITION FOR PUBLIC RELEASE OF
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81550


18 posted on 04/13/2011 1:13:56 AM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Don’t forget the mini series and spin-offs.


19 posted on 04/13/2011 1:14:58 AM PDT by MCF
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To: TigersEye
"congressional hearings were held to determine whether Sen. John McCain was constitutionally eligible to be president as a “natural born citizen,” no controlling legal authority ever sought to verify Obama’s claim to a Hawaiian birth."
20 posted on 04/13/2011 1:18:54 AM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com)
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To: tsowellfan
Nobody using a US Passport would have been able to enter Pakistan during the time that Obama went there.

That is a complete crock, and utter falsehood, and repeating it over and over can't and won't ever make it true. I KNOW you could travel to Pakistan on a US passport at around that time, and I know it because I did it. I do believe, however, that when OBAMA went there he traveled on his Indonesian passport. But if he had had a US passport, it would have worked just fine. I just don't think he had one.

21 posted on 04/13/2011 1:19:04 AM PDT by John Valentine
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
I am not a fan of Trump. I have NO clue what he is attempting to do. Could well be he is ‘the’ pawn assigned to take the PC ‘heat’, so as the imam BamBamKennedy can say his origins have all been aired.

What makes me suspicious is the bullying tactic of the Donald that IF the Republicans do not ‘pick’ him he might run as Independent... That means whatever votes he can pick left and right will leave BamBamKennedy sitting high and mighty in the ‘catbird's seat.

The Donald is as neck deep in liberal politics as any high playing liberal and he sure is not itching much about whose campaigns he has supposedly had to feather in order to keep his business opportunities afloat.

BamBamKennedy has NO memory as to where he was born and it sure is sleazy the ‘I am’ manner in which he ducks and HIDES everything about his past. I remember what the left did to Joe the Plumber just for NOT gushing over BamBamKennedy's planned redistribution of this nation's wealth.

I am also most suspicious given it was old Hillry that birthed the ‘birthers’. AND it was for her political purposes that it got birthed. BUT the political climate, (talk about man made climate), was NOT allowing for any questioning of anything BamBamKennedy else the most feared epithet would be necklaced about anyone who said a discouraging word.

There is NO doubt BamBamKennedy is hiding something, what I have NO clue. But I do not trust that the Donald is doing what he is doing for the interest and the good of this nation. Whatever his purposes are, they are first and foremost self serving.

22 posted on 04/13/2011 1:20:46 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
Donald Trump

born June 14, 1946 in Queens, New York, NY (Meets the Jus Soli Requirement)

Parents were
Frederick Christ Trump, born October 11, 1905 in Queens, NY, died June 1999 in Queens, NY
Mary Ann MacLeod, born May 10, 1912 in SCOTLAND, died August 7, 2000 in Queens, NY. Arrived in US October 5, 1935. Naturalized as a US Citizen March 10, 1942.

Both parents were US Citizens at the time of his birth (Meets the Jus Sanguinis Requirement)

Donald Trump is a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN unlike Comrade Barry Soetoro aka Barack Hussein Obama.

23 posted on 04/13/2011 1:24:01 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. De Vattel)
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To: Just mythoughts

Who is your favorite candidate in 2012?


24 posted on 04/13/2011 1:24:06 AM PDT by Bridge_toofar (Trump/Bachmann 2012 will finish off Obama for good.)
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To: tsowellfan
There is not one word about Congressional hearings about McCain in that link you supplied. LOL

Senate Deals With McCain’s Citizenship

The Senate is expected to this week weigh in that Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, is in fact a natural-born American citizen, thus eligible to be president under the Constitution.

A nonbinding resolution trying to clarify the status of Mr. McCain is headed for the floor after the Judiciary Committee approved it last week.

Democratic leaders were mulling whether to simply rush the resolution through as part of a package of bills without opposition or allow senators to express their views over the intersection of the Constitution’s vague natural-born requirement and Mr. McCain’s birth in the Panama Canal Zone while his father, a naval officer, was stationed there.

There were no hearings. There was no fact finding. They even tried to sneak the non-binding resolution into a bill in the dark of night. All they did was vote on a resolution.

25 posted on 04/13/2011 1:24:28 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

save for a later read


26 posted on 04/13/2011 1:27:09 AM PDT by submarinerswife (Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, while expecting different results~Einstein)
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To: TigersEye
There is not one word about Congressional hearings about McCain in that link you supplied.

Yes, there IS. The very quote I displayed is in the article that I linked to following quote.

All you had to do was scroll.

"congressional hearings were held to determine whether Sen. John McCain was constitutionally eligible to be president as a “natural born citizen,” no controlling legal authority ever sought to verify Obama’s claim to a Hawaiian birth."

27 posted on 04/13/2011 1:28:39 AM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com)
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To: tsowellfan

Yes, it was there, deep in the article about 0bama. That one sentence that incorrectly uses the word ‘hearings.’ That’s the kind of sloppy reporting WND does. There were no hearings.


28 posted on 04/13/2011 1:32:23 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Has ANYONE come up with a plausible excuse for withholding
the birth certificate, assuming there is one, other then it having damnable information that would disqualify him for POTUS?

All of this rubbish out of Fukino about all original
birth certificates being destroyed, or whatever, is all just
smoke and mirrors.
Yes, there is smoke OK, and no doubt, plenty of fire.


29 posted on 04/13/2011 1:36:08 AM PDT by AlexW (Proud to be a Birther.)
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To: TigersEye

Again, I’m not convinced that anything in Obama’s records proves anything negative. My wanting him to release all of his documents are not for the goal of catching him in a crime.

He needs to release his records to prove his eligibility.

I’m less suspicious that he was born outside the United States and I’m more suspicious that he’s trying to show the American people that the US Constitution means nothing.

Well, to me it DOES mean something.


30 posted on 04/13/2011 1:37:29 AM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com)
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To: tsowellfan
He needs to release his records to prove his eligibility.

That I can agree with.

31 posted on 04/13/2011 1:40:44 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: ASA Vet

Keep it up ASA Vet. This is simply another misleading lead story, perhaps to overwhelm readers with storylines.

That our framers, whose lives and families depended upon protection by laws founded in a Constitution, not by a King or Queen, insisted that our leader have inherited allegiance to our new form of government is more than reasonable. A secret Royalist could have weakend the economy, and called in the troops of his true patron to take over the weakened nation. That may be what Obama is doing. But, as you said, he fails the allegiance requirment. He was born to a parent who was never a citizen, and who certainly never held sole allegiance to our republic, as 14th Amendment Bingham required.

Is Free Republic crawling with Obots? To appear to have greater numbers than their opponent is one of Alinsky’s rules. It is no suprise that such a forum supporting freedom would be under attack. One benefit is that we get to know their tactics and their tools very well. Obama supporter’s arguments are seldom new. But we need to respond to them patiently, not because they will change their minds, but because there are many others who will read, and ferret the truth. The truth can be made clear. I dare say you do a better job of making it short than I do; please do keep it up.


32 posted on 04/13/2011 1:43:33 AM PDT by Spaulding
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To: Spaulding
Is Free Republic crawling with Obots?

Maybe not crawling with them, but there are more that a few. Some have been here longer than I have.
33 posted on 04/13/2011 1:49:00 AM PDT by ComputerGuy (HM2/USN M/3/3 Marines RVN 66-67)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Bump for further reading.


34 posted on 04/13/2011 1:49:17 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Communism is a diease, a global failure and endorses Barack Hussein Obama.)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
Here is something I like to post from time to time:
 
 
Let them claim there is no long form.
 
1st.  They and everyone has said all along the COLB is an abstract.  A COLB is a walkup document, meaning you can walk up to the desk, ask for your BC and they will provide an abstract, called a COLB in about 10 minutes.  That means there is a long form and Hawaii statutes, starting at (338)
 
2nd.  Hawaii already said they have seen Barry O.'s vital records and issued two statements - blah, blah, blah, right?
 
3rd.  Barry O. never had to show his long form BC ever, in his life, for anything?  Like obtaining a passport.  That one document is better than a drivers license.  It saying to the world you are who is contained in the passport document, which is based on an investigation of your background and YOU MUST provide a Birth Certificate as foundational proof of who YOU say you are.  From there the State Department does their background check on you and if you are who you say you are with no ammendments, modifications or whatever to your identity they issue it clean. 
 
Most adults can go to a desk or filing cabinet in his house and produce a birth certificate in a few minutes?
 

Barry O. tried to pass of something that was inconsistent with what the rest of have and know to be a “Birth Certificate”.

The so called COLB has many flaws with it:

  • His father’s race could never have been listed as “African”.  That was not the nomenclature at all, in the 1960’s.  So that begins the suspicion of a fraudulent document.
  •  The COLB is also cropped in many of the pictures that claim it is a scan.  If it is a scan, why not leave the document and size intact?
  • The COLB also has no artifacts such paper folds.  A scan does not make those disappear and in fact will highlight them.
  • The COLB that is scanned mysteriously does not show the Seal of Hawaii.  Why?  Because it was computer generated and not scanned.  Guess they forgot to add that back in.
  • More over, many of us are concerned and want to know why he wasted time producing a document that is inconsistent with what we know a Birth Certificate looks like.

 The best part and even more confusing is why he didn't release any of the three Birth Certificates we know already existed before 2007.

  • His kindergarten records and the BC, that should be there, have mysteriously disappeared.
  • The BC he used to get into college, apply for loans and most definitely used for his passport. That wasn't available?
  • Why couldn't he just present the one he found among his mother's belongings upon her death.   He waxed on and wondered about it and his father in one of his books.  Why not post that one?

Those were most certainly BC’s and not a COLB. There is no reason to create confusion but, for the fact he is hiding something. That something will be discovered, though and this is a long process.

“I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school. It’s a short piece, with a photograph of him. No mention is made of my mother or me, and I’m left to wonder whether the omission was intentional on my father’s part, in anticipation of his long departure. Perhaps the reporter failed to ask personal questions, intimidated by my father’s imperious manner; or perhaps it was an editorial decision, not part of the simple story that they were looking for. I wonder, too, whether the omission caused a fight between my parents.”

From “Dreams From My Father” (Pg. 26 last paragraph)

So with all these Birth Certificates lying around, why did he feel it necessary to produce a "Certification of Live Birth" that is inconsistent with a Birth Certificate and wholly lacking all of the information you would find, in you know, a Birth Certificate?

He seemed to have some emotional attachment to the Birth Certificate found among his mother’s belongings.  Why wouldn’t he just slap that one up, for all the world to see?

It seemed important that he found a document that is called a “Birth Certificate” and it is highly unlikely he would not know what one looks like.

Hope no one brings up some house fire that vaporized his BC.  That was in 1972 and none of the documents listed here would have been affected by that “fishy” event.

 
 
 

35 posted on 04/13/2011 1:49:24 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: tsowellfan; The Magical Mischief Tour

The issue of Natural Born Citizen was brought against John McCain long before Barrack was nominated to the DNC as a Presidential Candidate.

In fact, in order to place McCain on the ballot, the United States Senate went so far as to craft the Senate Resolution 511 proclaiming John McCain a Natural Born Citizen.

There is a cloud over Barrack's birth, to be sure.  But the fact that still remains is his birth was of a divided nationality British and American.  One is wholly one thing or another but not completely two things at the same time.

Senate Resolution 511

Recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen.

Whereas the Constitution of the United States requires that, to be eligible for the Office of the President, a person must be a `natural born Citizen’ of the United States;

Whereas the term `natural born Citizen’, as that term appears in Article II, Section 1, is not defined in the Constitution of the United States;

Whereas there is no evidence of the intention of the Framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to Americans serving in the military nor to prevent those children from serving as their country’s President;

Whereas such limitations would be inconsistent with the purpose and intent of the `natural born Citizen’ clause of the Constitution of the United States, as evidenced by the First Congress’s own statute defining the term `natural born Citizen’;

Whereas the well-being of all citizens of the United States is preserved and enhanced by the men and women who are assigned to serve our country outside of our national borders;

Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President; and

Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a `natural born Citizen’ under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.

 Now, let us take this simple and explore its hidden meaning.

 Whereas the Constitution of the United States requires that, to be eligible for the Office of the President, a person must be a `natural born Citizen’ of the United States;

They apparently have read the Constitution and have zeroed in on one clause that no law or legislative body has the right to amend.

Whereas the term `natural born Citizen’, as that term appears in Article II, Section 1, is not defined in the Constitution of the United States;

 The term ‘natural born citizen’ is not defined, however other rulings by the Supreme Court, Congress, and other writings from such as John Bingham, do define what a ‘natural born citizen’ is. For sake of space I will only quote the following.

The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.
-Chief Justice Waite in Minor v. Happersett (1875)

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0088_0162_Z…

Whereas there is no evidence of the intention of the Framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to Americans serving in the military nor to prevent those children from serving as their country’s President;

 So the Senate decided to make assumptions and attempt to pass a ‘Gentleman’s Agreement’ on the same. We have already seen from the prior statement that they claimed to have no knowledge of the meaning, and its definition.

Whereas such limitations would be inconsistent with the purpose and intent of the `natural born Citizen’ clause of the Constitution of the United States, as evidenced by the First Congress’s own statute defining the term `natural born Citizen’;

 So the Senate decided to make assumptions and attempt to pass a ‘Gentleman’s Agreement’ on the same. We have already seen from the prior statement that they have no knowledge of the meaning, and its definition.

Whereas the well-being of all citizens of the United States is preserved and enhanced by the men and women who are assigned to serve our country outside of our national borders;

 It sounds nice, but means nothing? Some fluff but again means nothing.

Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President; and

 Whom are they referring to, that was born ‘outside’ the United States and who deemed them eligible?

Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a `natural born Citizen’ under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.

So the Senate gave by law, what nature failed to do. Would that not be a ‘naturalized’ citizenship?

So the Senate deemed that two (2) American or US Citizen parents was an essential to the definition of a ‘natural born citizen’ that was not defined in the Constitution. So how did they deem that the issue was being born outside the jurisdiction of the United States if they had no definition or requirements of what ‘constituted’ a ‘natural born citizen?’ It seems like they know the definition, but are hoping the American public doesn’t. There is but one defintion that a ‘natural born citizen’ has to have citizen parents and being born in country and that is Vattel’s Law of Nations.

As I refered to SR 511. SR511 is a non-binding, non-lawful understanding, that can not be held as a LAW. Being such, a non-binding resolution is a written motion adopted by a deliberative body that cannot progress into a law. The substance of the resolution can be anything that can normally be proposed as a motion.This type of resolution is often used to express the body’s approval or disapproval of something which they cannot otherwise vote on, due to the matter being handled by another jurisdiction, or being protected by a constitution.

Again, I will note: being protected by a constitution.

“Simple resolutions do not require the approval of the other house nor the signature of the President, and they do not have the force of law.”

The reason I make this point is that for the chance that John Mccain would have actually won the 2008 Presidential election. The issue of his eligibility not only would have been brought up, but would have stated congressional hearings, the likes of Watergate all over again. The Congress would have in no time instituted articles of impeachment and the motion would have been approved. Then the Senate would have their chance to remove John McCain, however since they already have voted with their ‘Gentlemen’s Agreement’, regardless how the vote went. A non-binding, non-lawful resolution that trumps the United States Constitution could be waved in front of the American public, and John McCain, could go back in the corner, stick his thumb in his pie, and exclaim “Oh, what a good boy am I.”

Senate Resolution 511, was an attempt to circumvent the United States Constitution, and amend the ‘Natural Born Citizen’ Clause of which there has NEVER been an amendment or change too.

More then just a non-binding resolution, SR511 defined John McCain’s eligibility based on  being born of US Parents [NOTE the plural] but outside the country. Therefore the only alternative based on THEIR wording is ‘born in country’. They did not change the requirement of two (2) US parents.

Where is there a definition as to a ‘Natural Born Citizen’ based on parents [again plural] and born in country? Vattel’s Law of Nations.

Why if John McCain was held to these requirements, was Barack Obama not held of being born of US Parents [plural] and in the United States. 

Barack Obama has admitted that not only was his father a foreign national, but that he himself was a British Subject at birth. A British Subject is a foreign national and how can a foreign national be a ‘Natural Born Citizen’ as required by the United States Constitution?


36 posted on 04/13/2011 1:51:53 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: tsowellfan
Maybe you were right.

McCain 'birthers': ABC, CBS, NBC, FactCheck, N.Y. Times
Eligibility issue was huge in 2008 when Obama opponent was focus of attention

In addition to media scrutiny, McCain testified before a U.S. Senate committee and produced his long-form birth certificate for inspection.

My apologies! I didn't know a committee had ever been formed or that he submitted his LFBC to them. One of the reasons I didn't think that was because of this...

Then, on April 11, 2008, the Wall Street Journal's Law Blog published a piece noting that Sens. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., and Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., introduced a non-binding resolution expressing McCain qualifies as a natural-born citizen under terms of the Constitution.

That is something that doesn't require a hearing, a committee or anything at all. It's the typical Senate Circus meaningless BS that they pull.

That article, BTW, is recent and shows the amazing hypocrisy of the MSM and Dem pols listing all the goons who were ready to attack McCain on his eligibility even after the Sen. resolution. It shows just how biased factcheck.org is who are the only ones who claim to have seen 0bummer's paper COLB.

37 posted on 04/13/2011 1:53:09 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: Spaulding; zeebee
It's now about 16:2 Freepers encouraging me to keep it up, vs Freepers getting tired of my attempts to keep the NBC requirement front & center. Thanks Spaulding.
38 posted on 04/13/2011 2:02:34 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. De Vattel)
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To: ASA Vet

Keep it up!


39 posted on 04/13/2011 2:04:23 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: Bridge_toofar
Who is your favorite candidate in 2012?

I do not have a favorite yet. I am not interested in the losers from 2008 campaign, or any of those testing the political waters. I like Sarah, and I know the 'reason' she pulled old lord McCain through his last reelection, but, it caused grave doubts that she really knows what a two timer he really is.

40 posted on 04/13/2011 2:18:04 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: tsowellfan

I believe this is kinda simple. He was born “Barry” to start with, and continued with his English name until he ended his California college years (unfocused, bad grades, etc, etc). Then he dumped the college and moved to NY City....Columbia College, and he suddenly became focused....and he suddenly became Barak. Why? Like Mr Clay who became Mr Ali, and Lew Alcindor becoming Mr Abdul-Jabbar....he became Muslim. Every year, thousands of men in America undergo this transformation and they tend to get this period of calm and transformation.

He’s not foreign born or anything unusual like that. He simply started out as plain Barry, which is listed on the birth certificate, and then became a Muslim. He would prefer that you not figure this out and ask some stupid questions. Based on political help and insistence....he’s pretended he’s still Christian....just to get to the top. Nothing wrong with that...but it’s probably not a trait of honesty.


41 posted on 04/13/2011 2:24:44 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: pepsionice

I think he is the reincarnation of Malcom X and the Superhero of the re-birth of Communism in America.

He has every indication of being the son of Malcom X and was bred by the very best to step in daddies shoes.

But the Communist Godfathers had to keep a lot of it hidden so he could sing his song of “Hope and Change”.


42 posted on 04/13/2011 2:30:31 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Communism is a diease, a global failure and endorses Barack Hussein Obama.)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Trump has been hired by ‘Top Management’ to do a little ‘dry work’.

Don’t focus on Hillary! or you’ll miss the overall.

Think Global...What country would benefit the most from the exposure and removal of the Kenyan Usurper?


43 posted on 04/13/2011 2:33:23 AM PDT by bigoil (Study Thy Nixon)
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To: tsowellfan; TigersEye; John Valentine
Nobody using a US Passport would have been able to enter Pakistan during the time that Obama went there.

Why not? I am quite curious to get your reasoning. At the time, even more than now, Pakistan was a strong US ally in the region. Currently the relationship is under a lot of strain, primarily due to Islamabad not doing much to fight against the growing radicalism in the nation, plus Islamabad's growing ties with Beijing (not to mention Washington's growing ties with Delhi), but back then during the Cold War the relationship was exceptionally strong. The US was Pakistan's main backer, with the former USSR backing India (how things change).

Thus, the premise that 'nobody using a US passport would have been able to enter Pakistan during the time that Obama went there' doesn't seem to be veritable. Maybe you are confusing Pakistan with Iran, another US 'ally' that, following the '79 revolution, made it increasingly difficult for a US passport holder to visit.

This is a problem I always find with the Birther movement ...exposing oneself to easy rebuttal. I think people continue to say things that are patently not correct, and in doing so they give the other side a lot of ammunition. In essence, all a 'debunker' needs to do is focus on the incorrect stuff, and totally IGNORE the other information the Birthers have that is actually true and potentially damaging to the President. The enemy/otherparty/etc will always focus on the low hanging fruit, and the Birther movement has consistently been doing that.

This is the reason that I am extremely happy Trump is following up on this (even though I do not necessarily trust his motives). Trump will do it in a professional way, he will focus on facts and investigate those facts at a comprehensive level, he will not simply parrot stuff he read on email that can be easily rebutted (think of all the 'breaking news' the Birthers have come up with, ranging from fake birth certificates and scanned copies with promises of releasing the real Kenyan BC ...all of them being broken promises), and MOST importantly, presenting a serious face (unlike Orly whoever, who just seemed like a crazy woman). Trump, for all his faults, simply cannot be ignored, and that makes him the biggest proponent for the Birther movement. Finally the issue is being heard, it is being heard from a serious person (not some clown like Orly), it is being heard from a factual basis (not non-existent inabilities to get into Pakistan, or fake Kenyan BCs ....which was interesting because I was born in Kenya, and I could tell in a second that BC that was being shown on FR quite some time back was fake ...and easily fake ...only to be told by 'experts' on FR I didn't know what I was saying even about simple things like when Kenya got its independence). Trump is the biggest threat to the whole Obama BC issue, and I am sure he is causing the Administration some sleepless nights.

However, I do wish the rest of the Birther movement would get the facts straight. Isn't there some sort of central website where all the real facts (and there are a number of interesting facts that have not been properly explained by the Administration) can be put together so that people do not end up posting (rather weird) inaccuracies?

Oh, and it is a good thing Orly is no longer in the picture. The worst thing that can happen now is for her to try and 'join' Trump in his crusade. I have always believed that Orly was working for the other side. She almost single-handedly turned an issue that was serious into a running joke.

The Birther movement has a point that is being openly ignored by the Administration, and Trump is easily putting a lot of extra excess heat on the Administration. He may be the one who makes the Administration have to provide something solid. However, the Birther movement also needs to ensure it keeps its facts straight. It is so easy to discredit something real by focusing on aspects that are silly errors. I also think people hear something on talk radio, or read something on the web, and (thinking it is gospel) go around spreading information that is not true.

Imagine if a leading Birther had said no one could get into Pakistan with a US passport at that time ....the MSM would have torn him or her apart, and the Birther movement would have had an open and public humiliation on national TV. The kingdom lost for the want of a nail.

44 posted on 04/13/2011 2:35:13 AM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Probably the biggest reason why the MSM is so entrenched in defending Obama is less ideological and more related to legality. to have to admit, after three years, that they messed up because a black man was finally going to become president is too much to have to admit. A lawsuit based on this could bankrupt most of the networks.


45 posted on 04/13/2011 2:36:31 AM PDT by Jonty30
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

“... why do we think that Trump will find what they couldn’t?”
Raum Emanuel’s brother is Trump’s agent. Perhaps Raum isn’t happy about being drubbed out of the administration. He would know where the bodies are buried. Perhaps Trump’s contribution to Raum’s campaign is part of the deal.

Revenge? It’s the Chicago way. Just sayin.

I don’t know what the problem is, but it is obvious there is one. No sane person spends millions to fight lawsuits to keep it hidden when a $12 copy would do.


46 posted on 04/13/2011 2:37:37 AM PDT by stilloftyhenight (Don't make me use uppercase.)
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To: spetznaz

The place with all the “real” facts is hidden deep underground and requires the secret handshake.Just kidding.

Myself I was very much involved in the blossoming early stages of the birther movement, and I watched the growing army of advancing obots tirelessly invading FR like robotic assassins.

I watched the disappearances of certain FReepers, some that just changed names and maybe some that truly did just stopped coming around.

And I too was attacked in certain ways.

So for the time being I know that the accumulative false history of Obama is safe with very very trustworthy people and that Mr. Trump has patriots of the highest order conferring with him on approaches of tactically removing Obama or exposure to the degree that Obama is compelled to resign.


47 posted on 04/13/2011 2:45:03 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Communism is a diease, a global failure and endorses Barack Hussein Obama.)
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To: Spaulding

Excellent response on your part. Someone with secret loyalties could ruin a nation from the White House. In TMMT above, Obama is called Osama three times. Was this sloppiness or an intended sarcastic point?


48 posted on 04/13/2011 2:46:38 AM PDT by healy61
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To: spetznaz
Nobody using a US Passport would have been able to enter Pakistan during the time that Obama went there.

It's unlikey. At the time Pakistan was on the No Travel List and it was highly discouraged.

Obama needs to release his documents and prove his eligibility. Period. There are doubts among the American and people even worse among our men and women uniform. There should never be any doubt among the ranks of our military that their Commander In Chief is legit.

Officer questioning eligibility faces new threats from Army

49 posted on 04/13/2011 2:47:35 AM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com)
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To: tsowellfan

“This is not Kenya. Furthermore, you cannot be President if a parent was not a US Citizen at the time of birth.”

If I understand this statement correctly, if a parent was born outside the USA but became a citizen before his child was born, that is ok. Correct?

With that being the case, what we really need to find out is whether Obama’s father, whoever that is had US citizenship.

For all intents and purposes, Obama isn’t hiding whether he was born here. He is hiding whether his father, whoever that is was a US citizen before Obama was born.


50 posted on 04/13/2011 2:48:05 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (The MSM is the greatest threat to America.)
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