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New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ‘Green’
Military.com ^ | May 05, 2011 | Christian Lowe

Posted on 05/11/2011 7:14:14 PM PDT by Redcitizen

ABERDEEN, Md. --- Tell a Soldier he's loading "environmentally friendly" ammo into his M4 mag and he might be skeptical about whether it's as effective as its lead counterpart.

But Army officials here say the new M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round -- with its steel core instead of a toxic lead slug -- is far more effective than the current round, doubling the effective range and for the first time giving M4-wielding Joes the ability to penetrate barriers once reserved for higher-caliber rounds.

"There's a stigma among Soldiers about something that's 'green,' " said Lt. Col. Jeff Woods, the Army's small caliber ammunition product manager. "This is a clear case where making something environmentally friendly works for us."

(Excerpt) Read more at military.com ...


TOPICS: Military/Veterans; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 556; ammo; ammunition; army; banglist; firearms; greenammo
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Citing security concerns, engineers were cagey about describing how the new round works when it hits a human body. But Woods said it has "more consistent" effects on soft targets than the current round, or even the 7.62mm bullet.

"I can't say that it's more lethal than the M855. That depends on how the round hits a target," Woods said, emphasizing that accuracy is paramount. "But what I can say is that you'll see the same effects every time with this round.

In other words, this round will make the same hole as the regular M855 greentip which was already engineered to penetrate body armor and steel helmets. IMHO they are going for penetration at the expense of "stopping power" on unarmored targets. Personally speaking, I will take penetration though.

1 posted on 05/11/2011 7:14:22 PM PDT by Redcitizen
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To: Redcitizen

This is just an Liberal ploy at gun control from another angle.


2 posted on 05/11/2011 7:20:31 PM PDT by 3boysdad (The very elect. Every post gets me closer to the top of the Red List!)
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To: Redcitizen
Nothing new here.


3 posted on 05/11/2011 7:22:36 PM PDT by mylife
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To: Redcitizen

“doubling the effective range”

BS.


4 posted on 05/11/2011 7:22:49 PM PDT by jospehm20
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To: jospehm20

I agree. Same effective range as any other 5.56 round.


5 posted on 05/11/2011 7:26:31 PM PDT by Redcitizen (In case of economic breakdown, make sure you have a case of Snickers candy bars.)
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To: mylife

Meet the new M855A1 round. Same as the regular M855/SS109.


6 posted on 05/11/2011 7:29:37 PM PDT by Redcitizen (In case of economic breakdown, make sure you have a case of Snickers candy bars.)
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To: Redcitizen

Yup, it’s just steel piercing, which is nothing new.


7 posted on 05/11/2011 7:30:06 PM PDT by mylife
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To: Redcitizen

What would someone have to do to double the effective range of a 5.56 round? Heavier bullet, more powerful load, longer barrel? How can they increase range from I think 400-450m to around 800?


8 posted on 05/11/2011 7:30:20 PM PDT by wastedyears (SEAL SIX makes me proud to have been playing SOCOM since 2003.)
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To: Redcitizen

Promotional vid from the Army: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAIU5FQA7EM


9 posted on 05/11/2011 7:30:27 PM PDT by Redcitizen (In case of economic breakdown, make sure you have a case of Snickers candy bars.)
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To: jospehm20

Trying to squeeze more performance out of what is basically a varmint cartridge.If they want to double the effective range,they should start issuing 7.62x51 caliber weapons.


10 posted on 05/11/2011 7:31:59 PM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: Redcitizen

But it’s “super pointy”


11 posted on 05/11/2011 7:32:04 PM PDT by mylife
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To: Redcitizen

I think Lt. Col. Jeff Woods is FOS


12 posted on 05/11/2011 7:35:34 PM PDT by mylife
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To: wastedyears

I think they mean to say if they can get a hit out to 800 meters, the new M855A1 round will dig deeper than a standard M855 round. The M16A2s are equipped with 800 meter sights but the rfile are usually used up to 400 meters.


13 posted on 05/11/2011 7:35:34 PM PDT by Redcitizen (In case of economic breakdown, make sure you have a case of Snickers candy bars.)
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To: wastedyears
What would someone have to do to double the effective range of a 5.56 round?

Repeal the laws of physics.

14 posted on 05/11/2011 7:38:03 PM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: mylife

I got the impression he is reading from the official manual. Its a promotional video- he won’t say it’s the same round with a different colored tip.


15 posted on 05/11/2011 7:38:33 PM PDT by Redcitizen (In case of economic breakdown, make sure you have a case of Snickers candy bars.)
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To: Redcitizen

I think he is trying to say it can penetrate 1/4 steel plate out to 300 yards. all the rest of it sounds barmy.

It cant be as effective as .308 and it cant have the same effect in soft tissue as lead.


16 posted on 05/11/2011 7:42:13 PM PDT by mylife
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To: Redcitizen

Lt Col Woods needs to send each of us a case for evaluation purposes.

It is the only way to settle this matter.


17 posted on 05/11/2011 7:44:28 PM PDT by mylife
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To: Farmer Dean

I think something in between using the same cartrige size, like the 6.5 and 6.8mm rounds out there would probably be best. I believe they were working on such a round and some special forces use it. For one thing, it would still use the same M4 receiver and magazine, just change out the upper. No need to retrain troops to a new rifle.


18 posted on 05/11/2011 7:46:21 PM PDT by Hugin ("A man'll usually tell you his bad intentions if you listen and let yourself hear it"--- Open Range)
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To: Redcitizen
with its steel core instead of a toxic lead slug -- is far more effective than the current round, doubling the effective range

LoL "Doubling the effective range"...LoL.

19 posted on 05/11/2011 7:46:46 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: jospehm20; narses; neverdem; SunkenCiv; EODGUY; AFPhys; CholeraJoe; Doohickey; CPOSharky

Why does this smell like BS from a Obama-sucking pentagon-sponsored group? Now, it might not actually “BE” BS, but it smells like BS.

Barrel life “doubled” as well?

(See, if they can “sell” a captive military who must obey their marching orders, then the greenies/enviro’s can come back to the hunting/self-defense groups and say, “See? The military is using steel shot and steel bullets, so we must take your lead bullets and prohibit them as environmentally unsafe !”


20 posted on 05/11/2011 7:47:55 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Redcitizen
Cost prohibitive, but enticing nonetheless. The nice thing is because of the length, most platforms can accept the mods.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

I hope that Osama had first hand experience.

21 posted on 05/11/2011 7:48:57 PM PDT by Sax
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To: Redcitizen

I reload and hunt with all copper bullets made by Barnes, one of them is a 150gr. Polymer tipped Triple Shock, these are designed to “petal out” like a propeller and are advertised as “One Shot Kills”

I would put an image ut but anyone who knows hunting cartridges know what I am talking about, another Barnes bullet is called the MRX for extended down range performance.

Also I load the handgun M/LE (military/law enforcement) bullets, these are a LOT longer than same weight lead bullets, they have a very deep hollow that will create the same petal effect that creates a massive wound channel.

Of course these are big game hunting bullets and could be deemed illegal in warfare but if its solid copper with either a steel or tungsten core then they may be pretty much the same as what I hunt with. Personally I think after the right bullet is chosen and with a different powder charge the all copper bullets perform better than a FMJ lead bullet, at least out to a medium range, after that because they are lighter they do lose their energy.


22 posted on 05/11/2011 7:49:08 PM PDT by Eye of Unk (2012, NO MORE LIES!)
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To: Red Steel

See #16

But I would be surprised if it consistently penetrated 1/4 steel plate at 300 yards.

Maybe if it was a DU core


23 posted on 05/11/2011 7:49:31 PM PDT by mylife
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To: mylife

Yes we each need a case of both m855 and m855A1. I’m sure the current green tips already do quite well on 1/4inch steel at 300 yards. Hmm, next time I get a chance i will try m855s at 300 yards on 1/4 inch steel.


24 posted on 05/11/2011 7:50:15 PM PDT by Redcitizen (In case of economic breakdown, make sure you have a case of Snickers candy bars.)
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To: mylife

I agree. I want to see for myself. (Besides, the best ammo is free ammo....)


25 posted on 05/11/2011 7:50:47 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management)
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To: Sax

Nice Thumper


26 posted on 05/11/2011 7:52:53 PM PDT by mylife
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To: Redcitizen

I use them at 400 yards. I don’t think they penetrate.

They make gongs ring pretty good though.


27 posted on 05/11/2011 7:54:51 PM PDT by mylife
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To: Eye of Unk

“”reload...handgun M/LE (military/law enforcement) bullets, these are a LOT longer than same weight lead bullets,...”

Since they are alot longer and thus reduce the case capacity for powder, do you see a drop in velocity compared to same weight lead bullets?


28 posted on 05/11/2011 7:55:45 PM PDT by Redcitizen (In case of economic breakdown, make sure you have a case of Snickers candy bars.)
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To: 50cal Smokepole

I demand that we get empirical evidence!

Send the ammo!


29 posted on 05/11/2011 7:56:07 PM PDT by mylife
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To: 50cal Smokepole

I am skeptical.

62 grain .223 can be deflected pretty easily in thick brush.


30 posted on 05/11/2011 8:00:12 PM PDT by mylife
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To: Redcitizen

“...the new M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round — with its steel core instead of a toxic lead slug ...”

Calling lead “toxic” in this context is just plain false.

This politically correct bullet material begs a rewrite of and old saying:

For want of a powerful hit, the wound was not sufficiently disabling.

For want of a disabling wound, the soldier kept on fighting.

For want of a sufficient number of enemy disabled the skirmish was lost.

For want of winning a sufficient number of skirmishes the battle was lost...


31 posted on 05/11/2011 8:00:48 PM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: mylife

I’d get one, but I’m pretty sure I’d always choose to shoot and store cheaper rounds. I don’t like the idea of owning ornaments. I’d really dig it though, I’m sure!


32 posted on 05/11/2011 8:01:28 PM PDT by Sax
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To: Sax

It looks pretty effective for one shot one kill.


33 posted on 05/11/2011 8:03:07 PM PDT by mylife
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To: theBuckwheat

Even if this guys claims of penetration are correct, this round will just blow through an enemy combatant with minimal damage.

It cant be a steel penetrator and work just as effectively in soft tissue.


34 posted on 05/11/2011 8:06:28 PM PDT by mylife
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To: Redcitizen

Yes, but most firing ranges will not let you shoot this round due to liability concerns.


35 posted on 05/11/2011 8:07:14 PM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: mylife
My 50 grn. varmint loads are easily deflected by a friggin’ fart. The M193 55 grn. drift a lot in a 15 knot crosswind.
36 posted on 05/11/2011 8:08:24 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management)
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To: Redcitizen

I use a slower powder called Longshot and yes its a different charge than anything else, I have duplicated a very populare round in .45auto called the DPX by Corbon, instead of a regular 230gr. lead or FMJ I use 185gr.

At www.sigforums.com I posted my load data, but because of liability I cannot post it here.


37 posted on 05/11/2011 8:09:45 PM PDT by Eye of Unk (2012, NO MORE LIES!)
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To: 50cal Smokepole

Yup. At 300 yards I need .308 to manage wind.


38 posted on 05/11/2011 8:11:38 PM PDT by mylife
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To: Redcitizen

Steel won’t “carry” as far as lead, as waterfowlers have seen.


39 posted on 05/11/2011 8:11:40 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: mylife
Then again, I don't have a problem with my 300 grn., .45 cal (.50 cal sabot) bullets out of the smokestick. But only good to 200 yds. After that, they have the ballistics of a crowbar.
40 posted on 05/11/2011 8:21:01 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management)
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To: jospehm20

If this were true they’d have been using these rounds a long, long time sooner than now.


41 posted on 05/11/2011 8:22:28 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: MileHi

That’s why the Army tried tungsten to retain weight and couldn’t make it work. They then fell back on steel claiming it was better.


42 posted on 05/11/2011 8:23:29 PM PDT by Redcitizen (In case of economic breakdown, make sure you have a case of Snickers candy bars.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Most reloaders who have worked up loads using all copper bullets think speed is the answer, in as such as controled expansion that is. For long range they do suck, about the only real advantage they may have is that being longer and with the right twist they appear to stabilize better, but many hunters have complain of them shooting all over the place.


43 posted on 05/11/2011 8:26:48 PM PDT by Eye of Unk (2012, NO MORE LIES!)
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To: 50cal Smokepole

I’m no great hunter like you, but I like the Winchester .308 for distance shots, though i regularly work the AR15 out to 400 yards on calm days.


44 posted on 05/11/2011 8:28:23 PM PDT by mylife
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To: Redcitizen

PC madness


45 posted on 05/11/2011 8:34:31 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Redcitizen

So it seems. I’ve got plenty of IMI SS109. For that rainy day.


46 posted on 05/11/2011 8:35:33 PM PDT by Noumenon ("One man with courage is a majority." - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Redcitizen

Well Hallelujah, the greenie clintonista/obamists have finally repealed the laws of physics!

A 5.56mm 62gr magic bullet is superior to a 7.62mm 147gr “evil polluting bullet”, eh?.

Hmmm, who to believe? The new PC military or Isaac Newton?


47 posted on 05/11/2011 8:37:14 PM PDT by 43north (BHO: 50% black, 50% white, 100% RED)
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To: Hugin

The .250 Savage has been out there a long time. It just needs to be loaded to pressures suitable for modern rifles.


48 posted on 05/11/2011 8:39:59 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Noumenon

+1. ;)


49 posted on 05/11/2011 8:45:15 PM PDT by Redcitizen (In case of economic breakdown, make sure you have a case of Snickers candy bars.)
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To: 43north

Sir Isaac always gets the last word. =)


50 posted on 05/11/2011 8:50:42 PM PDT by Redcitizen (In case of economic breakdown, make sure you have a case of Snickers candy bars.)
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